Qualified Driver moving to another TOC whilst Post Qualified

[RogerDodger]

Hello!

I've recently qualified as a Driver, and due to a number of circumstances I want to move on from my current employer.

I was wondering how long other drivers found they had to wait before moving elsewhere? I understand with being PQ some other TOC/FOCs won't touch you for a while, but want an idea how long I must endure being where I currently am...

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

[anglian96]

Hello!

I've recently qualified as a Driver, and due to a number of circumstances I want to move on from my current employer.

I was wondering how long other drivers found they had to wait before moving elsewhere? I understand with being PQ some other TOC/FOCs won't touch you for a while, but want an idea how long I must endure being where I currently am...

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

I would say atleast until your no longer PQA. Most places in the competency interviews ask about experience and route cards etc also majority require 2-3 years post qualifying experience

 

[EZJ]

Plenty of TOC'S take PQA drivers as long as they can demonstrate the skills required, my TOC have taken plenty with just 2 years experience. One question though, why are you having to "endure" where you are? If there is a problem all companies have help you can ask for, maybe try to address the issue rather than just trying to leave to go somewhere else where that unaddressed problems reoccur.

 

[Mgv1349]

Hello!

I've recently qualified as a Driver, and due to a number of circumstances I want to move on from my current employer.

I was wondering how long other drivers found they had to wait before moving elsewhere? I understand with being PQ some other TOC/FOCs won't touch you for a while, but want an idea how long I must endure being where I currently am...

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Usually 2-3 years, do you have a contact about repayment for the training as that is something to consider aswell

 

[357]

Lots of TOCs and FOCs take PQA drivers, but it will be a bit harder to shine through in the interview stage.

No harm in applying - they don't bite and the worst they can do is say no.

I'm PQA and have just accepted a qualified job at another TOC

 

[387star]

I moved depots three times within the first three years


The first move was down to luck as a brand new depot needed drivers.


I've done six years now and I'm still apparently pqa

 

[357]

I moved depots three times within the first three years


The first move was down to luck as a brand new depot needed drivers.


I've done six years now and I'm still apparently pqa

Yep! I've been with my current company almost 5 years and still PQA

PQA means nothing to 99% of companies looking to hire drivers. It's experience and the impression you give in the interview that counts.

 

[RogerDodger]

Thanks guys - I was originally meant to be based at X depot, and was told no you need to go to Y depot which is Z amount of miles away, and financially, mentally and physically isn't viable. I've requested a transfer to a closer depot on hardship terms which was ultimately rejected.

I appreciate every bit of advice though

 

[16.19]

Thanks guys - I was originally meant to be based at X depot, and was told no you need to go to Y depot which is Z amount of miles away, and financially, mentally and physically isn't viable. I've requested a transfer to a closer depot on hardship terms which was ultimately rejected.

I appreciate every bit of advice though

If the depot you’re being placed at is causing fatigue due to the amount of travel you have to do to get there (although it should be within an hours drive) then you should speak to your local union representatives and come to an agreement with your company.

 

[387star]

If the depot you’re being placed at is causing fatigue due to the amount of travel you have to do to get there (although it should be within an hours drive) then you should speak to your local union representatives and come to an agreement with your company.

See here for a discussion on commutes:

Train Crew commutes from hell

Have any Train Crew had to endure long (one hour plus) commutes or regularly face nightmare traffic to and from work? Perhaps you're frequently delayed on the train or you have to stand! This may be more common in the London area If so what coping strategies do you use to ensure you stay alert?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[RogerDodger]

If the depot you’re being placed at is causing fatigue due to the amount of travel you have to do to get there (although it should be within an hours drive) then you should speak to your local union representatives and come to an agreement with your company.

It's uncommutable - I've had to lease a property nearby, which with the costs of things going up, isn't suitable any more - Tried the union route to no avail.

 

[Sly Sloth]

It's uncommutable - I've had to lease a property nearby, which with the costs of things going up, isn't suitable any more - Tried the union route to no avail.

Unpopular opinion……. Have a small mishap (additional stop out of course) and blame it on the travelling time and fatigue. When asked how you can be supported mention the request of a move has been turned down and you’re really struggling! I’m sure you’d get noticed then

 

[12LDA28C]

Hello!

I've recently qualified as a Driver, and due to a number of circumstances I want to move on from my current employer.

I was wondering how long other drivers found they had to wait before moving elsewhere? I understand with being PQ some other TOC/FOCs won't touch you for a while, but want an idea how long I must endure being where I currently am...

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

I would advise against this - some TOCs have a policy in place that if you want to move to another TOC whilst still in your PQ period, you have to pay back a large percentage of your training costs to the company that trained you, which can run to tens of thousands of pounds.

It costs a huge amount of money to train up a driver from scratch and you can hardly blame a TOC for wanting to reclaim their investment if a driver wants to take their newly-gained ETDL elsewhere.

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I moved depots three times within the first three years


The first move was down to luck as a brand new depot needed drivers.


I've done six years now and I'm still apparently pqa

Moving depots (within one TOC) is rather different to moving to another TOC.

 

[RogerDodger]

I would advise against this - some TOCs have a policy in place that if you want to move to another TOC whilst still in your PQ period, you have to pay back a large percentage of your training costs to the company that trained you, which can run to tens of thousands of pounds.

It costs a huge amount of money to train up a driver from scratch and you can hardly blame a TOC for wanting to reclaim their investment if a driver wants to take their newly-gained ETDL elsewhere.

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Moving depots (within one TOC) is rather different to moving to another TOC.

I've completed an Apprenticeship - There's no commitment or requirement to pay anything back

 

[12LDA28C]

PQA means nothing to 99% of companies looking to hire drivers. It's experience and the impression you give in the interview that counts.

It will certainly mean something to the TOC that has spent a huge amount of money training someone up only for them to take their licence elsewhere within the first couple of years.

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I've completed an Apprenticeship - There's no commitment or requirement to pay anything back

You might want to check your contract. Apprentice drivers at my TOC certainly have a contract which states they are required to pay back a percentage of their training fees if they want to leave within their PQ period, which personally I don't really consider unfair.

 

[RogerDodger]

It will certainly mean something to the TOC that has spent a huge amount of money training someone up only for them to take their licence elsewhere within the first couple of years.

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You might want to check your contract. Apprentice drivers at my TOC certainly have a contract which states they are required to pay back a percentage of their training fees if they want to leave within their PQ period, which personally I don't really consider unfair.

Yep, I've triple checked it - There's nothing to pay back. I know that's how it works at a majority of FOCs, but not at my TOC.

 

[dctraindriver]

Unpopular opinion……. Have a small mishap (additional stop out of course) and blame it on the travelling time and fatigue. When asked how you can be supported mention the request of a move has been turned down and you’re really struggling! I’m sure you’d get noticed then

I see your logic, but I still don’t think that’ll help. Then that potentially stops a move to another TOC……..

I’d politely say they shouldn’t follow your advice.

 

[Evolution]

Plenty of TOCs take PQA drivers, TPE have taken loads in the past (maybe not the best place to move to currently, though). I think EMR will take people with a years experience too. There are TOCs/FOCs out there who are desperate for drivers, I’d email their respective HR departments.

Ignore the people saying you “owe” the company X amount of years service, you don’t. Do what’s best for you and the most important thing of all is to keep that record clean. I can’t emphasise this enough, if you have an incident due to fatigue you could then become trapped at your current company. Moving sooner rather than later would be my plan, whilst driving defensively in the meantime to avoid a mishap.

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I see your logic, but I still don’t think that’ll help. Then that potentially stops a move to another TOC……..

I’d politely say they shouldn’t follow your advice.

Agreed, it wouldn’t be my approach either.

 

[dctraindriver]

Ignore the people saying you “owe” the company X amount of years service, you don’t. Do what’s best for you and the most important thing of all is to keep that record clean. I can’t emphasise this enough, if you have an incident due to fatigue you could then become trapped at your current company. Moving sooner rather than later would be my plan, whilst driving defensively in the meantime to avoid a mishap.

Agree 100%. Really hope you get this resolved soon.

 

[12LDA28C]

Ignore the people saying you “owe” the company X amount of years service, you don’t. Do what’s best for you and the most important thing of all is to keep that record clean.

It's been confirmed that in this particular case, this is not written into the OPs contract, but if it was, this is not great advice if a large financial penalty could be imposed.

 

[greatkingrat]

Just to note that even if you are theoretically able to move, there is no guarantee there will be any vacancies any time soon, particularly if you are tied to a small area (which it sounds like you are).

 

[Horizon22]

Thanks guys - I was originally meant to be based at X depot, and was told no you need to go to Y depot which is Z amount of miles away, and financially, mentally and physically isn't viable. I've requested a transfer to a closer depot on hardship terms which was ultimately rejected.

I appreciate every bit of advice though

Whilst this is indeed tough, I presume you were told this before you signed a contract and agreed to it? Unilaterally changing your place of work would definitely be something the union would be interested in supporting.

 

[12LDA28C]

Whilst this is indeed tough, I presume you were told this before you signed a contract and agreed to it? Unilaterally changing your place of work would definitely be something the union would be interested in supporting.

Agree with this although if a hardship move was rejected, presumably the union was involved with this and was unable or unwilling to assist.

 

[LowLevel]

To be fair I can guess where you are and the circumstances in which those positions became available did cause significant amounts of head scratching about the longer term viability of the proposal. If the drivers in question start disappearing en masse it will very much be a case of "told you so" on the staff side, however that's the company's problem. You don't lose anything by applying elsewhere, bar the stress of the application process and if you're willing to work for a poorly regarded operator with a staffing problem then they'll probably snap you up if you're honest about the circumstances.

To give an example, one driver took a mainline job having worked as a fairly distant depot driver and before the ink was dry on their licence had another job lined up "back home".

 

[Evolution]

It's been confirmed that in this particular case, this is not written into the OPs contract, but if it was, this is not great advice if a large financial penalty could be imposed.

This subject has come up many times over the years and the general consensus is that these ‘contracts’ aren’t worth the paper they are written on and aren’t enforceable. It’s more of a scare tactic to stop drivers moving. Search previous threads and you will find drivers who have left companies with these in place with no consequences. There was a legal professional on one thread who said they would be thrown out of court if the TOC decided to take it that far.

 

[12LDA28C]

This subject has come up many times over the years and the general consensus is that these ‘contracts’ aren’t worth the paper they are written on and aren’t enforceable. It’s more of a scare tactic to stop drivers moving. Search previous threads and you will find drivers who have left companies with these in place with no consequences. There was a legal professional on one thread who said they would be thrown out of court if the TOC decided to take it that far.

Maybe so, but you can hardly blame a TOC for wanting a return on their investment, can you. Would you be happy if you owned your own company and spent £100,000 training up a member of staff only for them to leave after a year?

 

[Goingloco]

If it's not written into a contract there is no legal recourse. Find a TOC who will take you and go for it. They've been remiss for not protecting their investment.

 

[43066]

This subject has come up many times over the years and the general consensus is that these ‘contracts’ aren’t worth the paper they are written on and aren’t enforceable. It’s more of a scare tactic to stop drivers moving. Search previous threads and you will find drivers who have left companies with these in place with no consequences. There was a legal professional on one thread who said they would be thrown out of court if the TOC decided to take it that far.

Indeed. It generally isn’t enforceable if it’s buried in the small print, unless they specifically direct you to it when you sign (and perhaps get to you sign a separate agreement to repay fees). Most TOCs don’t do this.

You simply have to do what’s best for you in these situations.

Maybe so, but you can hardly blame a TOC for wanting a return on their investment, can you. Would you be happy if you owned your own company and spent £100,000 training up a member of staff only for them to leave after a year?

No, but I’d argue the correct way for TOCs to deal with that is by focussing on making sure they provide a decent working environment, rather than trying to scare people into staying.

 

[12LDA28C]

No, but I’d argue the correct way for TOCs to deal with that is by focussing on making sure they provide a decent working environment, rather than trying to scare people into staying.

A decent working environment is often not the problem. At locations where there are other drivers depots with other TOCs nearby, it's very common for people to apply for a job further away from home in order to gain their ETDL because the TOC nearer to their home is not recruiting. Then, as if by magic, once they qualify and get their licence, they want to move to their local TOC as a qualified driver. Some locations struggle to retain drivers precisely for that reason, nothing to do with working conditions, management styles, Ts & Cs or whatever.

I wouldn't consider a clause in a contract as 'scaring people into staying' - it's in place to protect an investment. If you have a plan to get your key and immediately move on to another employer, that seems pretty unfair to the TOC/FOC that initially puts their faith (and cash) in you, no?

 

[357]

It will certainly mean something to the TOC that has spent a huge amount of money training someone up only for them to take their licence elsewhere within the first couple of years

The TOC that now gets paid to train apprentice drivers?

Anyway, I said it means nothing to the hiring toc - and loyalty means absolutely nothing in this industry.