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Proposed new Channel Tunnel services discussion

TheWierdOne

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Andy Burnham was in Germany yesterday, the Russian threat has moved the goalposts, and the view reading Germany news in English is that they want UK to be back close to Europe.

Apparently the view that Britain needs to penalised from Brexit has gone, and working to get closer ties back, is now the aim only German side (and personally I think Burnham understands the economic disaster from Brexit to)

My gut feeling is these are evidence of the initial physical rejoin plan, not that anyone dares announce Brexit reversal yet. Public need to slowly convert mindset though gradual improving the links between countries
Oh yes I totally forgot Citizen Burnham was hobnobbing with the chancellor yesterday. That probably has a lot to do with it, given he does have a reputation for public transport.

Edit: I believe that visit included ratifying the agreement that will allow British citizens to use German ePassport gates, which will help with the logistics of the immigration processes no doubt.
 
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Snow1964

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Alstom will also service the trains under a 30-year maintenance contract.
Interestingly the Virgin Press Release says secured track access until at least 2040, and they have signed a 30 year maintenance agreement with Alstom (which would therefore run until nearer 2060). The have obviously calculated risk that trains might end up being used elsewhere after 2040

Under a landmark agreement with French rail group Alstom, spanning the delivery of 12 trains, Virgin will operate a fleet of Avelia Stream trainsets capable of travelling at speeds of up to 300km/h, with customised interiors designed for cross-Channel travel.
No indication if train is 200m, 400m or some other length

Virgin Atlantic’s Clubhouses will help inspire pre-departure and onboard social spaces, giving passengers more flexibility to work, relax or socialise in style.
pre-departure, does that mean some sort of station departure lounge ? and if so where will it be in those cramped station waiting areas

 

Sorcerer

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Well if there were any doubt about the Virgin-Alstom deal I’d say it’s fully confirmed now. Virgin have released the first renders of what their trains will look like. I must say I rather like the livery.

View attachment 212999

https://www.virgin.com/media-centre...f-new-cross-channel-service-planned-from-2030



And in other news, from the same release, although I cannae find anything on the ORR website.
I have mixed feelings. It's very reminiscent of the 1990s Virgin Trains livery, and the flag effects are quite nice. But the lack of contrasting doors (I think white could've worked here) along with the big Virgin logo sort of make it look a bit unprofessional. But it's better than the original red and white concept in my opinion.
 

zwk500

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But the lack of contrasting doors (I think white could've worked here) along with the big Virgin logo sort of make it look a bit unprofessional.
Presumably they'll need to adjust that to meet the PRM TSI (Persons with Disability and reduced Mobility Technical Specification for Interoperability), as Clause 4.2.2.3.2 (3) says:
All exterior passenger doorways shall be marked on the outside in a way that gives a contrast to the vehicle body-side surrounding them.
 

cle

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I can't imagine they will have Clubhouses. But maybe the train could have one, for business passengers - could be quite a flex. If you could earn VS / KL / AF / DL air/sky miles too, that would attract a huge amount of users. Americans keep Eurostar running practically, the demand is massive - and so many do open jaw trips (business and leisure) - and this would see many decamp from Eurostar.

But it would also grab the frequent flier members from their domestic markets (France, Netherlands) - Virgin Atlantic being the junior partner in this mix.
 

BRX

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I have mixed feelings. It's very reminiscent of the 1990s Virgin Trains livery, and the flag effects are quite nice. But the lack of contrasting doors (I think white could've worked here) along with the big Virgin logo sort of make it look a bit unprofessional. But it's better than the original red and white concept in my opinion.

I don't think there's much point thinking too much about the details of that image, which someone probably made in about 15 minutes with chatGPT.
 

30907

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Perhaps the more interesting news on the Chunnel front is that moves are afoot regarding services to Köln Hbf. That is to say, the horrendously overworked station that Jon Worth thought London services would be impossible to run from.

Supposedly the plan is to install the ability to close off the southern half of platform 5 (enough for a 200m train, presumably) and access this via a new bridge from a terminal building outside the station. It's...bold.
They'd also have to close 4 as it's an island :)
 

TheWierdOne

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They'd also have to close 4 as it's an island :)
Is the platform wide enough to not do that if you are only allowing passengers up to the platform when the train has arrived? You could potentially get away with a partition down the middle of the island?
 

chris2

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Thanks for posting I was reading that earlier.
I do think they have got the travel time wrong. London to Köln shouldn't take much more than four and a quarter hours. I suspect the 5 to 6 hours quoted is from London to Frankfurt (or possibly not taking into account the time difference!)

For sure, here’s tomorrow’s itinerary for the journey…

London St Pancras 11:04 -> Brussels Midi 14:05 (2hr 1min)
Bruxelles Midi 14:25 -> Köln 16:15 (1hr 50mins)

Total time: 4hr 11mins (incl. 20min change at Brussels)
 

danshrimp

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Is the platform wide enough to not do that if you are only allowing passengers up to the platform when the train has arrived? You could potentially get away with a partition down the middle of the island?
Jon reckons it's doable at the northern end, but not at the southern end which is what is supposedly being discussed: https://jonworth.eu/trains-to-london-from-gleis-5-at-koln-hbf-its-bold/ (Of course as it stands this all seems to be coming from one journalist, so the details may not be perfect.)

Trains to London from Gleis 5 at Köln Hbf? It's bold

The Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger put out an intriguing article yesterday, stating that four trains a day could depart Köln Hbf for London in the 2030s, and this will be done from Gleis 5 (Platform 5) at the station, and passengers will get to the platform from a terminal building on a new bridge.

This idea is bold and it is interesting, and it is not a way to solve the Köln Hbf - London headaches I had previously thought of. When I wrote my #CrossChannelRail report late last year, I concluded Köln Hbf was just too complicated to solve, and that building a London terminal at Köln/Bonn Flughafen station, or even Horrem, would make more sense.

I would also encourage anyone not deep into the technicalities of all of this to read my report, as it explains in some depth some of the other aspects of the Channel Tunnel conundrums that this article will only briefly touch with regard to Köln Hbf.

The most important is the need to conduct both bag scans and border controls before a passenger boards a train heading towards the UK. Argue all you like whether those rules make sense, but everything I write about this topic takes them as given.

Having the map of Köln Hbf from OpenRailwayMap open might also help make some of this make sense.

Anyway to the core issue: what problem does Gleis 5 solve?

The direction of the tracks. The only platform - Gleis 1 - that anyone had considered in Köln Hbf has a track that heads east, while a train departing towards London needs to go west. No one had any workable solutions for this (crossing the Rhein three times is not sensible, but I did look at the idea!) and crossing half a dozen live tracks at a chronically overloaded station to exit Gleis 1 the wrong way is a non starter. Gleis 5 does not have this problem - you can exit from there directly towards Aachen and Bruxelles.

But that then brings other headaches. On the other side of Gleis 5 is Gleis 4:

[A DB ICE3neo waits at Gleis 5 Köln Hbf. To the right a regional train is seen at Gleis 4. Also note the steps that can be seen here - those are relevant. Picture is looking south east.]

The way to solve this is to somehow split the platform into two halves, with some sort of glass dividing wall - to prevent passengers from each part mixing.

Sadly I seem to never have photographed it properly, but Bruxelles Midi has a system like this between platforms 3 and 4, that can just about be seen to the left of this picture:

[Passengers board a train to Paris at Platform 4. The rolling door and glass wall to the left prevents passengers getting to Platform 3. View looking north at Bruxelles Midi.]

This system means that Platform 3 can be secured to allow passengers to board an Amsterdam to London train here, in the same way passengers could board a Frankfurt - London service at Köln Hbf.

But there is a further issue at Köln Hbf: the stairs and the escalators. The main ones are towards the south east end of the platforms, and the space for passengers to pass them is extremely restricted, as you can see here:

[Picture taken on Köln Hbf Gleis 5, looking towards 4, and 3-2 and 1. Note how much of the total platform width the barriers for the staircases take up.]

So building some sort of dividing barriers here is not going to work as they are going to cause even more congestion at the times when the platforms are not to be used by London trains.

A complex and expensive solution (that would make sense anyway, regardless of London trains) would be the make all the passenger platforms wider, eliminating the service platform used to supply dining cars - that you can see here:

[The service platform - the low tarmac area - between Gleis 5 and Gleis 6, looking north west. There is a similar platform between Gleis 3 and Gleis 4 (not shown).]

But to do this you would have to shift the running tracks closer together, and I do not even know if metal sort of bridge structure below the tracks can even bear the change in weight to enable that. So this way forward is neat, but probably out of the question.

But the picture above does provide a different way to solve the problem: how about securing only half of Gleis 5?

According to DB InfraGo data, Gleis 5 is 485m long (data here). And for one train set, you need just 200m. So you could secure only the part of the platform shown in green here:


[Screenshot of OpenRailwayMap of Köln Hbf, with the position of what would need to be secured shown in green.]

The Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger article implies a part of the platform solution, but says the south eastern part, but I cannot see how that can work given the issues with the staircases I outline above, but the north western part would, at a push work - so I am pursuing that in more depth here.

Bear in mind that trains having to be changed to other platforms at Köln Hbf is a common occurrence, so perhaps a solution to use Gleis 4 as well as a backup for Gleis 5 might make sense. And that - even with the S-Bahn expansion plans - Köln Hbf is going to be a horribly congested station, both for passengers confronted with narrow platforms and passageways, and operators who struggle to secure adequate paths through the station, make any plans for London tricky.

But by now you're probably thinking: this only deals with platforms. What about the terminal where border controls and bag scans would happen?

Supposedly these would happen in a separate building somewhere, and passengers would then reach Gleis 5 on a new bridge. Somewhere here I presume?

[Screenshot of Google Maps satellite view, with the location of a possible footbridge shown in green]

We know a solution like this - all the check in procedures in a building, then passengers descend to a temporarily secured platform - does work, as Eurostar does this at Rotterdam Centraal already (more about this in my #CrossChannelRail report).

The headache of course is you are going to want a lot more passengers boarding in Köln (likely up to 550 per train) than in Rotterdam (currently limited to 165 per train), and especially if Eurostar ends up running slow to board double deck trains on this route, that is going to take a while. Stadt-Anzeiger talks of occupying a platform for 30 minutes, but that strikes me rather on the high side!

Operationally though, if any company gets anywhere near actually doing all of this, we know two things: they will operate 200m long trains (either single trains, or a 2x200m formation), and will want to serve Frankfurt am Main as well as Köln.

Securing the north western end of Gleis 5 at Köln Hbf opens up an interesting operational model. One 200m train would wait there, and passengers board. And then a second 200m train would arrive from Frankfurt (Main) Hbf at the south eastern end of the platform and doors would remain closed, and then once the units are coupled they depart together towards Aachen and onwards to the Channel Tunnel.

Would all of this work?

I am not at all convinced. Torsten, a follower of mine on social media, sums it all up best: "That seems both like the only practical way to do this and a horrible mistake at the same time." I could not put it any better!

But the idea is new, and it is bold, and it deserves some consideration. This article is my contribution, and as and when more facts emerge I will update this accordingly.
 

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