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Projects you'd build but will (probably) never happen

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zwk500

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UIC-GC doesn't stand for Great Central does it? Because that's what I always thought it stood for.
The 'UIC' is the Union International de Chemins de Fers, or International Union of Railways. They have classified a set of standardised gauges based largely on European loading gauges, which they use letters to classify. The smallest is GA, then you have GB, GB+ and GC. It is not the same as the Great Central Railway, or it's preservation successors.
 
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Northumbriana

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I can't find the thread about building the railway from scratch today. So hopefully this is an appropriate thread to ask.

Is it safe to assume current rights of way in urban areas without any railways would have been developed by now and thus be unavailable?

I'm also assuming a new railway network built from scratch would be relying heavily on non-central stations either on the edges of cities or taking up space in industrial estates with the aim to develop the area. Newcastle for example would likely be served by a station and line going through the metro centre or Walker as it's unlikely the current path of the ECML through the city would have been left free. Nor would a railway line be able to be developed through a city centre in the way it currently is.

I dare say in some cases well connected airports would end up becoming rail:air hubs for the area.
 

Backroom_boy

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If I'm allowed a rolling stock project?

I would refurb a couple of the class 373 Eurostars to be modern art deco, first class only sets, for a once a week service London>Paris, Paris>London, with full catering, priced at the luxury end (not the hyper-luxury, once in a (two?) life time of the VSOE, but maybe affordable every few years) and perhaps name it 'The Golden Arrow/Fletche D'or.....
 

takno

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I can't find the thread about building the railway from scratch today. So hopefully this is an appropriate thread to ask.

Is it safe to assume current rights of way in urban areas without any railways would have been developed by now and thus be unavailable?

I'm also assuming a new railway network built from scratch would be relying heavily on non-central stations either on the edges of cities or taking up space in industrial estates with the aim to develop the area. Newcastle for example would likely be served by a station and line going through the metro centre or Walker as it's unlikely the current path of the ECML through the city would have been left free. Nor would a railway line be able to be developed through a city centre in the way it currently is.

I dare say in some cases well connected airports would end up becoming rail:air hubs for the area.
I think in most cities that tunnelling would be the way to access the centre, although I would guess at systems more like Thameslink or the model in Warsaw, where trains run through cities, and are turned around at parkway stations on the edges of town.

Most cities in Britain had stations built away from the centres anyway because of local opposition. It's just that town centres have grown, and in some cases migrated, to encompass the station.
 

coppercapped

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The 'UIC' is the Union International de Chemins de Fers, or International Union of Railways. They have classified a set of standardised gauges based largely on European loading gauges, which they use letters to classify. The smallest is GA, then you have GB, GB+ and GC. It is not the same as the Great Central Railway, or it's preservation successors.
A bit late, but the 'G' stands for gabarit, the French word meaning, in the railway context, 'structure gauge'.
 

Bartsimho

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I'd make it so all new lines are built to a gauge of PPI and existing lines are retrofitted to PPI when major improvement works occur (such as electrification, track realignment or station rebuilds) to allow rolling stock to be of the more standard European models in the future as well as it creating some greater passenger capacity on the rolling stock.
 

zwk500

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I'd make it so all new lines are built to a gauge of PPI and existing lines are retrofitted to PPI when major improvement works occur (such as electrification, track realignment or station rebuilds) to allow rolling stock to be of the more standard European models in the future as well as it creating some greater passenger capacity on the rolling stock.
Platforms are your issue here. The distance from a GB-sized train to a standard European platform is too large to expect anybody to step normally, so you would need to fit gap fillers to either trains or platforms (or both) and then have a system that was capable of managing the deployment of said gap fillers as required. Very expensive, considering lots of wayside stations would never justify rebuilding the platforms to such a level.
 

Bartsimho

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Platforms are your issue here. The distance from a GB-sized train to a standard European platform is too large to expect anybody to step normally, so you would need to fit gap fillers to either trains or platforms (or both) and then have a system that was capable of managing the deployment of said gap fillers as required. Very expensive, considering lots of wayside stations would never justify rebuilding the platforms to such a level.
Considering some rolling stock has gap fillers for level boarding it could be done on the train side. As it would be a rolling program as well any new tenders would be for with level boarding of this nature to allow the change in platforms to take place.

Edit: Also get the tracks sorted first and the platform canopies then when it comes time to move to the new stock cut the platforms back to create the new larger gaps
 

takno

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Considering some rolling stock has gap fillers for level boarding it could be done on the train side. As it would be a rolling program as well any new tenders would be for with level boarding of this nature to allow the change in platforms to take place.

Edit: Also get the tracks sorted first and the platform canopies then when it comes time to move to the new stock cut the platforms back to create the new larger gaps
Not a fan of cutting back the canopies until the stock is big enough to fill the space. Nobody wants to get soaked leaping over a big gap.
 

Northumbriana

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I think in most cities that tunnelling would be the way to access the centre, although I would guess at systems more like Thameslink or the model in Warsaw, where trains run through cities, and are turned around at parkway stations on the edges of town.

Most cities in Britain had stations built away from the centres anyway because of local opposition. It's just that town centres have grown, and in some cases migrated, to encompass the station.
I guess another question is how do towns and cities develop without railways? I'm guessing maybe many prominent places don't develop at all.
 

Bartsimho

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Not a fan of cutting back the canopies until the stock is big enough to fill the space. Nobody wants to get soaked leaping over a big gap.
I was thinking about raising the platform canopies not moving them backwards really so trains and wires fit under them rather than them not being there. As there's no steam anymore there is less of a ventilation issues so it's only diesels you have to worry about but the open nature of everywhere else should suffice for ventilation
 

takno

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I was thinking about raising the platform canopies not moving them backwards really so trains and wires fit under them rather than them not being there. As there's no steam anymore there is less of a ventilation issues so it's only diesels you have to worry about but the open nature of everywhere else should suffice for ventilation
This I can get on board with
 

61653 HTAFC

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Not a fan of cutting back the canopies until the stock is big enough to fill the space. Nobody wants to get soaked leaping over a big gap.
A shame nobody told whoever planned the 1988 upgrade of Huddersfield station, which involved platform 1 being built out to meet what had been a goods line. As a result the foot or so width of the platform nearest the train is not covered by the overall roof.
 

m79900

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I’d reopen the Cromford and High Peak Railway with working cable hauled inclines. It’d be great to see a train going over the bridge at the top of Steeple Grange!
 

D6130

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I would reopen Elvanfoot station on the West Coast Main Line just North of Beattock Summit and the sharply-curved, steeply-graded branch from there to Wanlockhead, including mixed-gauge track between Leadhills and Wanlockhead to allow the existing preservation society's light railway to continue operating on Sundays. Furthermore, if funding were to be made available by the Scottish Government, I would extend the line to Sanquhar on the G&SW Kilmarnock-Dumfries line....providing a useful diversionary route for WCML services in the event of a line blockage between Elvanfoot and Gretna Junction. These developments would not only encourage massive industrial and residential development on the South Lanarkshire moorlands, but also provide an environmentally-friendly way of transporting the thousands of massive blades for the wind turbines which are sprouting like mushrooms all over the Southern Uplands.

Then I would wake-up and realise that it was all a horrible nightmare! ;)
 

Austriantrain

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In true crayonista fashion and to finally bury the Castlefield corridor discussion at the same time;)

Replan HS2 Crewe - Manchester for 300 kph throughout and run the HSL with an underground station at Piccadilly through to Preston, so that it can be used by London - Scotland (nonstop through MAN, instead of the Golborne link) and Birmingham- Scotland (stopping at MAN). Scrap the NPR portion via MIA and build a new more direct line MAN - LIV, connected to the tunnel described above (LIV - MAN much more important than the airport, and HS trains LIV - MAN - MIA still possible with an attractive journey time).

8-)
 

Arrpi87

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Double track the entire Sheerness branch, shift the track from the old bridge over the Swale into a new tunnel and reinstate the other platform at Sheerness (plus give the whole station a proper good makeover).

Once those have been done Sheerness can now have a Javelin service direct to London. Who knows, maybe that'll help reinstate a ferry service from Sheerness.

Edit: Oh... seeing as we have free reign... also what about adding a link between HS1 in Essex to the ECML (plus any improvements to ECML needed) to allow services from Paris/the continent to bypass central London and continue up to the North and terminate in Edinburgh and maybe Leeds. Grab some of the air passenger market.
 
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Northumbriana

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In true crayonista fashion and to finally bury the Castlefield corridor discussion at the same time;)

Replan HS2 Crewe - Manchester for 300 kph throughout and run the HSL with an underground station at Piccadilly through to Preston, so that it can be used by London - Scotland (nonstop through MAN, instead of the Golborne link) and Birmingham- Scotland (stopping at MAN). Scrap the NPR portion via MIA and build a new more direct line MAN - LIV, connected to the tunnel described above (LIV - MAN much more important than the airport, and HS trains LIV - MAN - MIA still possible with an attractive journey time).

8-)
Combining the two London to Scotland HS2 trains with two of the Manchester trains would save a little bit of capacity at Euston I guess?

If this happened though I'd guess HS2 would would continue North East of Piccadilly and split with one branch to Leeds and the other to Cumbria giving Preston and Lancaster a very wide berth.

1tph Birmingham - Piccadilly - Glasgow or Edinburgh
2tph Euston - Piccadilly - Glasgow and Edinburgh

1tph Euston - Piccadilly - Leeds
1tph Birmingham - Piccadilly - Leeds - York
2tph Liverpool - Piccadilly - Leeds - Sheffield
2tph Liverpool - Piccadilly - Leeds - York - Newcastle - Edinburgh - Glasgow
 

WAO

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I'm captivated by the enthusiasm and imagination of the above posts, whether affordable or not.

My own is as timid as it is unlikely to happen.

I would convert Merseyrail to 25kV overhead, now it has 777's.

I would use the Bank Hall substation for a SFC as it already has an underground feed from Lister Drive. I would use batteries from Sandhills to Central and southwards to where the catenary could economically stretch, coming north from Hunts Cross. Over the water/(Mersey), there's space for another SFC around Arrowe Park, again, with battery operation where the Loop tunnels and other bridges are too low. This would allow Merseyrail to spread its wings beyond its constricted boundaries, whether by OLE or battery power. No one need then need be stranded by a power cut.

I would also require all stations over say 100 000 footfall/year to have at least a 20m canopy shelter over each platform in use.

Crayon needs sharpening.

WAO
 

JKF

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Reopen and extend the Clifton Rocks Railway to the Observatory cafe. Though not sure exactly how you would get a funicular to turn a corner…
 

zwk500

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Electrifying Norwich - Cambridge - Ely - Peterborough
Cambridge-Ely is already wired, unless the 365s to King's Lynn were doing some rather extreme coasting.
Norwich-Ely is unlikely but Ely-Peterborough may well happen at some point, although it is rather far down the list right now.
 

Mikey C

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Cambridge-Ely is already wired, unless the 365s to King's Lynn were doing some rather extreme coasting.
Norwich-Ely is unlikely but Ely-Peterborough may well happen at some point, although it is rather far down the list right now.
Why would Norwich to Ely be unlikely? Cambridge to Norwich is an important route in a fast growing area, based on new technology. Indeed Ely to Norwich is arguably as important as Ely to King's Lynn.
 

Wolfie

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The thread about a second channel tunnel has made me wonder if you could fit three Eurostar departure lounges at St Pancras. Turn the arrivals into A (with more escalators), the current one is B and build C where The Curve shops are now. It would sacrifice half the shops and maybe some domestic HS1 services so it won’t happen.
The obvious question is where the heck will arrivals go??? You only mention departures....
 

stuu

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Reopen and extend the Clifton Rocks Railway to the Observatory cafe. Though not sure exactly how you would get a funicular to turn a corner…
The Great Orme tramway manages to turn corners. It's not unusual, you need more angled rollers
 

The Ham

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Creating a line from West of Alton Station to connect to the WofE line just west of Oakley (near Basingstoke).

At about 20 miles from Alton to Basingstoke that should be short enough that you could run it as a through service using the Alton and Basingstoke stoppers without needing any extra units.

A few new possible stations; Alton West (near to the hospital/sports centre), Bentworth (not that it's very big, but it's worth a stop), Hatch Warren/Kempshott (Basingstoke), Oakley and Basingstoke west (at the leisure park).

The main purpose would be to relink Basingstoke and Alton (road links aren't great) as well as provide better public transport options to areas of Alton and Basingstoke which have seen significant development since the railways were reviewed by Beeching.

Likewise it would put Oakley back on the railway map without having to slow down WofE line services.

It would also allow, what are otherwise complex journeys by public transport (such as Farnham to Basingstoke which currently takes 1:10 to 2 hours and could be cut to about 40 minutes, so not much slower than the 30 minutes drive).

Bentwood could also allow further development, either within it and/or Lasham (which is about 2 miles away).
 

zwk500

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Preston - Carlisle via Carnforth has been wired since 1974. Presumably we're talking about via Barrow?
Strictly speaking Preston-Carlisle via Carnforth is the route via Barrow as there's no platforms on the WCML today.
Given the route hasn't justified resignalling away from AB I struggle to see where a case for electrification would come from unless it's the last island of non electric working in a TOCs network.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Why would Norwich to Ely be unlikely? Cambridge to Norwich is an important route in a fast growing area, based on new technology. Indeed Ely to Norwich is arguably as important as Ely to King's Lynn.
Because the benefit is minimal. Ely to Norwich gives no wider strategic benefit because of the limited number of through services, while Norwich already has an electrified link to London and although it is fast growing Norwich is still a relatively small city with a relatively small economic base, and Cambridge is also a relatively small city although it does have a much bigger economic base.
Ely to King's Lynn was electrified party for operation reasons (hence doing it so cheaply) to avoid DMUs running through to Kings Cross on the new wires but also because it electrified the only link to London for Ely and King's Lynn, and London is what drives traffic.
Ely to Peterborough would not be done before Stowmarket to Cambridge/Ely, because it would be about electric freight. If bimode freight locos become standard Ely to P'bro may well also drop off the list as 1tph local and 1tph regional to Norwich is really going to struggle to justify the scale of intervention required unless electrification costs reduce dramatically.
 
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