Projects you'd build but will (probably) never happen

[Trainguy34]

Putting in a curve / curves between the Ramsgate - Ashford Line and the Faversham - Dover line or at least a new Station (Canterbury Parkway)

 

[py_megapixel]

Crayons time:

Build a new Manchester Airport station on the Styal line, close to where the spur for the current one diverges, with a pair of through platforms for Northern local services, and some much longer bay platforms to alleviate the capacity constraints for terminating services. (The current station and the spur would close).

Then build some sort of elevated automated light rail shuttle providing a loop service:
Railway station - JetParks 3 - Terminal 3 - Terminal 1 - Bus/Metrolink station - Terminal 2 - JetParks 1/2 and drop off zone - Railway station (ideally in both directions)

Might actually make station-terminal transfers faster than using the perennially broken travelators on the bridges.

 

[Whistler40145]

Build a link between the Styal and Mid Cheshire lines to enable services from Chester to serve Manchester Airport

 

[YourMum666]

Uprgrading the South Western Mainline into 25KV OHLE between Waterloo and Weymouth/Exeter , it’s a route that should be considered a trunk intercity route

 

[SussexSeagull]

Reopen the Steyning and Cranleigh lines as Trams.

 

[The Ham]

Uprgrading the South Western Mainline into 25KV OHLE between Waterloo and Weymouth/Exeter , it’s a route that should be considered a trunk intercity route

Whilst currently it's significantly slower to get to Exeter via Salisbury than via Taunton, a lot of that extra time is due to the extra stops and it being single track.

There's currently 17 stops, each is likely to add 3 minutes to the run, so of the 3:22 journey time 51 minutes is down to station stops (obviously a non stop service wouldn't be viable), however with 5 stops it would be 2:46 (maybe a bit less with engineering enhancements). Whilst clearly not viable currently, if there was the potential to run extra services (say in a post Crossrail 2 world, which is the "likely" timeframe - obviously hypothetically) it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider faster services.

Whilst that would still be slower than the fastest via Taunton (2:00) that only stops at Reading, that's only any better if (probably a number of these factors):
- it runs at a time which is convenient (bearing in mind is an hourly service)
- you're not taking a noticeable time longer than is otherwise the case to connect with the faster service (whilst more of an issue for those outside of London, not entirely without justification within London, especially given the above)
- ticket price isn't a significant factor
- where you're heading to (for instance wishing to go to Central rather than St. Davids effectively cuts at least 10 minutes when going via Salisbury)

Whilst it's not going to wipe out travel via Taunton, it could ease the pressure a bit on that route to allow further rail travel.

 

[Northumbriana]

Crayons time:

Build a new Manchester Airport station on the Styal line, close to where the spur for the current one diverges, with a pair of through platforms for Northern local services, and some much longer bay platforms to alleviate the capacity constraints for terminating services. (The current station and the spur would close).

Then build some sort of elevated automated light rail shuttle providing a loop service:
Railway station - JetParks 3 - Terminal 3 - Terminal 1 - Bus/Metrolink station - Terminal 2 - JetParks 1/2 and drop off zone - Railway station (ideally in both directions)

Might actually make station-terminal transfers faster than using the perennially broken travelators on the bridges.

I'd have a line loop off the mainline at Chelford and join a branch from Knutsford off the Northwich line and tunnel under the airport to the station. That or a tighter loop from Styal.

Also move the projected HS2 line and station to follow alongside under the airport.

 

[Silenos]

Whilst currently it's significantly slower to get to Exeter via Salisbury than via Taunton, a lot of that extra time is due to the extra stops and it being single track.

There's currently 17 stops, each is likely to add 3 minutes to the run, so of the 3:22 journey time 51 minutes is down to station stops (obviously a non stop service wouldn't be viable), however with 5 stops it would be 2:46 (maybe a bit less with engineering enhancements). Whilst clearly not viable currently, if there was the potential to run extra services (say in a post Crossrail 2 world, which is the "likely" timeframe - obviously hypothetically) it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider faster services.

Whilst that would still be slower than the fastest via Taunton (2:00) that only stops at Reading, that's only any better if (probably a number of these factors):
- it runs at a time which is convenient (bearing in mind is an hourly service)
- you're not taking a noticeable time longer than is otherwise the case to connect with the faster service (whilst more of an issue for those outside of London, not entirely without justification within London, especially given the above)
- ticket price isn't a significant factor
- where you're heading to (for instance wishing to go to Central rather than St. Davids effectively cuts at least 10 minutes when going via Salisbury)

Whilst it's not going to wipe out travel via Taunton, it could ease the pressure a bit on that route to allow further rail travel.

It would be shame, though, if stations like Tisbury, Sherborne and Crewkerne lost their old-fashioned charm…

 

[The Ham]

It would be shame, though, if stations like Tisbury, Sherborne and Crewkerne lost their old-fashioned charm…

I'm curious as to why you think this.

 

[Silenos]

I'm curious as to why you think this.

Because I appreciate charm? Windswept and barren concrete with a single inadequate glass lean-to for shelter doesn’t do much for me, I’m afraid.

 

[The Ham]

Because I appreciate charm? Windswept and barren concrete with a single inadequate glass lean-to for shelter doesn’t do much for me, I’m afraid.

However, I wasn't suggesting the removal of stations (only new services with fewer stops).

Whilst the redoubling could require more station buildings - I would hope that facing platforms would be at least designed to be in keeping with the existing buildings.

Of course there's nothing stopping existing buildings being used for waiting rooms and moving across to the other platform just before the train is due.

Also, given that the stations aren't interchange stations the probability of people wishing to wait for a long time is likely to be fairly limited.

 

[zwk500]

It would be shame, though, if stations like Tisbury, Sherborne and Crewkerne lost their old-fashioned charm…

Surely there'd be somebody who could spin enough money out of an old-fashioned waiting room by turning it into a tea/coffee shop or maybe a pub? While I appreciate that a proper waiting room is far better for passengers than a bus shelter, at the same time we do need to reduce the burden on the farepayer if we are to encourage traffic.

 

[leytongabriel]

Surely there'd be somebody who could spin enough money out of an old-fashioned waiting room by turning it into a tea/coffee shop or maybe a pub? While I appreciate that a proper waiting room is far better for passengers than a bus shelter, at the same time we do need to reduce the burden on the farepayer if we are to encourage traffic.

Hence horrible places like platform 11 (Lea Valley) at Stratford or the eastbound Overground platform at Balckhorse Rd where the provision of the odd shelter is completely out of step with the number of passengers using them.

 

[YourMum666]

There's currently 17 stops, each is likely to add 3 minutes to the run, so of the 3:22 journey time 51 minutes is down to station stops (obviously a non stop service wouldn't be viable), however with 5 stops it would be 2:46 (maybe a bit less with engineering enhancements). Whilst clearly not viable currently, if there was the potential to run extra services (say in a post Crossrail 2 world, which is the "likely" timeframe - obviously hypothetically) it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider faster services.

With the upgrading of the SWML, there would be the current service at a higher frequency and a newer service that called at Basingstoke, Salisbury and Exeter that would be much faster than the current service and aim to provide more capacity to the Exeter area

 

[Silenos]

With the upgrading of the SWML, there would be the current service at a higher frequency and a newer service that called at Basingstoke, Salisbury and Exeter that would be much faster than the current service and aim to provide more capacity to the Exeter area

In my experience, the carriages don’t really fill up till you get to Axminster/Honiton/Pinhoe, where you get large numbers of local people using the service for shopping trips into Exeter Central. So I’m not sure how much uptake you would get for an express from Salisbury to Exeter (presumably St David’s).

 

[zwk500]

Hence horrible places like platform 11 (Lea Valley) at Stratford or the eastbound Overground platform at Balckhorse Rd where the provision of the odd shelter is completely out of step with the number of passengers using them.

The Overground is somewhat different scale to the West of England line.

With the upgrading of the SWML, there would be the current service at a higher frequency and a newer service that called at Basingstoke, Salisbury and Exeter that would be much faster than the current service and aim to provide more capacity to the Exeter area

Not without flyovers at Woking and Basingstoke.

 

[cle]

Build a link between the Styal and Mid Cheshire lines to enable services from Chester to serve Manchester Airport

I like this from a connectivity point of view - and general quick glance logic - but there are a few issues:

How many services would you send west of MAN? I think Knutsford would benefit a lot, Northwich too.

But if you sent, say at least 4tph through ( less would hardly be worth it) - they aren't headed off to metropolises quickly. It's a slow, diesel, country line, and a trundle to Chester. Middlewich and to Crewe I suppose. Up to the WCML?

Maybe you could extend the Met to Hale, and truncate there - with only freight on the line up to Stockport otherwise. All Mobberley and onwards service via Airport. Free up a path or two for a longer service from Manchester through Stockport.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not without flyovers at Woking and Basingstoke.

And ATO

 

[The Ham]

In my experience, the carriages don’t really fill up till you get to Axminster/Honiton/Pinhoe, where you get large numbers of local people using the service for shopping trips into Exeter Central. So I’m not sure how much uptake you would get for an express from Salisbury to Exeter (presumably St David’s).

That's not a surprise, given that it's not uncommon for route planners to suggest the way to get to Exeter from Salisbury is by going to Westbury.

Not without flyovers at Woking and Basingstoke.

Which would likely happen in preparation for the increase in frequency created by Crossrail 2 - which is the likely timeframe that something like this would be happening in (obviously it's all theoretical).

 

[Northumbriana]

I'm going to suggest a series of Le Shuttle type services to ease lorry miles (and other vehicles) on key corridors. Maybe:

• M1 between Sheffield and Leeds to the West of Manchester (Trafford Park?).
• Preston M1 to Eurocentral in Scotland (is that it's name?).
• Something from the West Midlands to the North West.
• A bypass of London.

 

[zwk500]

I'm going to suggest a series of Le Shuttle type services to ease lorry miles (and other vehicles) on key corridors. Maybe:

For all of these, would this be new build or a rebuilding of the existing lines to UIC-GC?

• M1 between Sheffield and Leeds to the West of Manchester (Trafford Park?).

This might have potential if the service is frequent enough, although it does depend on ultimate origin and destination.

• Preston M1 to Eurocentral in Scotland (is that it's name?).

I'd start this much lower down, near where the M6/M62 cross.

• Something from the West Midlands to the North West.

The traffic is just too dispersed between origin/destination pairs to make this worthwhile given the distance. West Mids to Central Belt, yes.

• A bypass of London.

Which way round? There's no clear dominant path to justify the investment in a line that would basically shadow the M25 at not much higher speed.

The big one I think you've missed is M6 north of Crewe to Holyhead.

 

[Northumbriana]

For all of these, would this be new build or a rebuilding of the existing lines to UIC-GC?

This might have potential if the service is frequent enough, although it does depend on ultimate origin and destination.

I'd start this much lower down, near where the M6/M62 cross.

The traffic is just too dispersed between origin/destination pairs to make this worthwhile given the distance. West Mids to Central Belt, yes.

Which way round? There's no clear dominant path to justify the investment in a line that would basically shadow the M25 at not much higher speed.

The big one I think you've missed is M6 north of Crewe to Holyhead.

Couldn't figure out how to split quotes so hopefully my answers make sense.

1) New build lines.

2) I'd imagine it would need a turn up and go frequency. Maybe every 15 minutes.

3) Good idea, maybe near where the line from Sheffield would end for quick roll off/roll back on interchange.

4) Fair enough. Might be worth having shorter trains join up with those from a M62/M6 terminal to run up to Scotland.

5) I was thinking along the East from Kent through Essex, along the North with a terminal next to the M1 and then ending near Heathrow with another terminal. Might be worth continuing to a terminal with the motorway from Southampton to pick up South Coast to the North lorries?

Do Irish sea ferries have enough sustained demand for that? If so, yeah, I'd add that too.

 

[The Ham]

I'm going to suggest a series of Le Shuttle type services to ease lorry miles (and other vehicles) on key corridors. Maybe:

• M1 between Sheffield and Leeds to the West of Manchester (Trafford Park?).
• Preston M1 to Eurocentral in Scotland (is that it's name?).
• Something from the West Midlands to the North West.
• A bypass of London.

There's been a report by National Highways and Network Rail into freight transport between Solant and the Midlands:

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/media/rc4bekfn/solent-to-the-midlands-multimodal-freight-strategy.pdf

 

[HSTEd]

For all of these, would this be new build or a rebuilding of the existing lines to UIC-GC?

If we are doing Lorry shuttles we will want something a lot bigger than UIC-GC!

Lorries in the UK are substantially taller than is normal on the continent.
You are looking at the Chunnel gauge (5.6m tall by 4.1m wide) or AAR Plate H, which is a little taller (~6.03m) but significantly narrower than the chunnel loading gauge.

You'd probably want a superset of both gauges so that you can also run double-stack containers and cope with taller lorries. It would potentially allow you to build one to allow Chunnel shuttles to run direct to the M25.

 

[zwk500]

If we are doing Lorry shuttles we will want something a lot bigger than UIC-GC!

Lorries in the UK are substantially taller than is normal on the continent.
You are looking at the Chunnel gauge (5.6m tall by 4.1m wide) or AAR Plate H, which is a little taller (~6.03m) but significantly narrower than the chunnel loading gauge.

Channel Tunnel uses 1,100m wagon floor height, doesn't it? Not impossible that could be lowered if needed for this proposal.

 

[HSTEd]

Channel Tunnel uses 1,100m wagon floor height, doesn't it? Not impossible that could be lowered if needed for this proposal.

Indeed, but we can't lower it too much before we start running into other issues. I'm fairly certain we want level decks for drive-on loading in the Chunnel style, so we can't use well wagons.
And small wheels will only get you so far.

It might get you a few hundred millimetres, but with the height of a UK lorry being up to 4.8m.......

 

[zwk500]

Indeed, but we can't lower it too much before we start running into other issues. I'm fairly certain we want level decks for drive-on loading in the Chunnel style, so we can't use well wagons.
And small wheels will only get you so far.

It might get you a few hundred millimetres, but with the height of a UK lorry being up to 4.8m.......

I mean, a set of new lies such as these was always theoretical.

 

[The Ham]

HS lines to Scotland and between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

UIC-GC doesn't stand for Great Central does it? Because that's what I always thought it stood for.

 

[swt_passenger]

UIC-GC doesn't stand for Great Central does it? Because that's what I always thought it stood for.

No, it’s just short for “Gauge C” - likewise, UIC Gauges GB and GB+ are nothing to do with Great Britain specifically.

Then again the Great Central having some sort of “continental” gauge is a somewhat perpetual railway myth. It’s been discussed here a few times over the years, but basically the GC was already open and in use before the meetings to discuss a continental gauge even took place.