Prepare to be searched...

[Beaker]

Well, I was asked for ID once, on my way home from work at manchester picc when I had to change from a Middlesbrugh to a Bolton train. Anyway...

I was on my way home from work and moving to the external designated smoking area for a fag before catching my bolton train. And then on my way back in was asked what I was doing and for photo ID by a PCSO. (NOTE: I work at an airport, and can never be bothered taking off my airside pass which has to be displayed (even on the stations)). Anyway, I pointed at it and he said he needed to see a driving licence or passport, to which I said (because I wanted an argument) that I'd like to see his warrant card. Which he showed me somthing that I didn't care about.

Then after asking why he'd stoped me and all he could come up with was for 'acting suspicously' and refusing to arest me:
"Am I under arest"
You'#ve been stoped
"Am I under arest"
Erm,, no
"I;m going then now bye.."

Then a proper copper accused me of terrorism, not seeing my airside permit, then I instructed him to call the security centre at Manchester Airport and inform them, as they'd want to know why an apron security cleared person was being accused of terrorism.

They left me alone then

This highlights my point, you were clear to go in a few moments? So not the end of the world.

 

[yorkie]

Ok i assume he provoked is that better?

Based on what evidence?

And about this genocide business....

huh?

And I quoted how I wanted to, or is this illegal now ?

You appeared to be attributing quotes to me which were not said by me. It's not illegal; it's just incorrect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, I was asked for ID once, on my way home from work at manchester picc when I had to change from a Middlesbrugh to a Bolton train. Anyway...

You are not obliged to give them any form of ID, or give them your name, unless you have been accused of an offence.

 

[Beaker]

Based on what evidence?

huh?

You appeared to be attributing quotes to me which were not said by me. It's not illegal; it's just incorrect.

I was highlighting my views under your views as they were numbered in an order and I thought it would be easier and clearer to put mine under your corresponding views, but apparently not :roll:

my view on him possibly provoking him being searched, is the fact he has record it being searched and at the end makes a remark about search under section 44 of blah blah... So he knows what he is doing. And as it would take a long time for him to be randomly searched i assume he must of done something to aid his cause.

And as to genocide you seem to refer to the British Police as similar to Nazi Germany, and the only crime committed so far in this thread is wasted time which is hardly comparable to mass genocide of the Gestapo and SS of Nazi Germany

 

[Nym]

This highlights my point, you were clear to go in a few moments? So not the end of the world.

But if it wasn't a sunday morning and I wasn't abrupt to it (why is a 20yo medium build man out at 7am?) and if it had been a time when I need to make a FingFast connection, as in Pt.13 -> Pt.8 at piccadilly in <1min then there could be problems...

And I don't object to being searched at work, it's in my security contract, I didn't object to that, I objected to their reason...

It's 7am, I look tired, I've been at work for 12 fupping hours! I'm going to look tired! I look agressive aparently, wouldn't you if you'd just had 14 arguments with angry customers over not being able to take a drink through security?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You are not obliged to give them any form of ID, or give them your name, unless you have been accused of an offence.

I know, but I wanted to get home that week, was at work again that night at 6pm...

 

[Beaker]

But they don't know the background of your situation. At the end of the day, if they stop terrorists then all is good.

 

[yorkie]

I was highlighting my views under your views as they were numbered in an order and I thought it would be easier and clearer to put mine under your corresponding views, but apparently not :roll:

Under the quote is fine, not within it please.

my view on him possibly provoking him being searched, is the fact he has record it being searched and at the end makes a remark about search under section 44 of blah blah... So he knows what he is doing. And as it would take a long time for him to be randomly searched i assume he must of done something to aid his cause.

So you assume based on no grounds whatsoever. Right.

And as to genocide you seem to refer to the British Police as similar to Nazi Germany,

That's not what I said.

and the only crime committed so far in this thread is wasted time which is hardly comparable to mass genocide of the Gestapo and SS of Nazi Germany

I didn't say it was, and it was you who brought genocide into it. There's far more to it than just "wasted time", it is interesting that you belittle the search and yet you massively exaggerate other things.

I know, but I wanted to get home that week, was at work again that night at 6pm...

Yes, that's the problem. If you do not go beyond your obligations, then they are likely do a full search and check and detain you for quite some time. Concequently many people give up some of their rights in order to get it 'over and done with'.

But they don't know the background of your situation. At the end of the day, if they stop terrorists then all is good.

Yes, as long as terrorists succeed in losing us our civil liberties all is good, yeah, right.

And what evidence do you have to suggest that these random searches "stop terrorism"?

 

[Nym]

Yes, that's the problem. If you do not go beyond your obligations, then they are likely do a full search and check and detain you for quite some time. Concequently many people give up some of their rights in order to get it 'over and done with'.

Well, yeah, although if they try it one morning that I'm not in work that night I'm gonna go to town and refuse to do anything until they arest me, and when they do I'm checking every single warrant card hehehe

 

[Beaker]

Sounds familiar. Nazi Germany was exactly like that.

Also if you remove random searches etc then it will not help at all.

 

[68]

http://politics.phreadz.com/p/15ROH206TI2T/

Can happen to any of us, at any time. Our crime is to use rail as a form of transport apparently.

What a country we live in, eh? :roll:

I don't see the problem with it. At least they are taking proactive steps towards terrorism. It will also help with other things like youth problems.

 

[Coradia]

I don't see the problem with it. At least they are taking proactive steps towards terrorism. It will also help with other things like youth problems.

True, there is nothing wrong with it if the people searching are within the rules. I was searched once at Blackpool tower, and wasn't really that bothered knowing it was like you say, taking proactive steps towards terrorism. But, if you are specifically 'targeted' (e.g. if you look like your up to no good) that isn't fair. I am sure we have all had the 'you can't take photos at stations as this is an act of terrorism' rubbish.

 

[Mojo]

Is it not right that people should be concerned over the presence of a totalitarian state? The first step of which is creating fear amongst general member of the public to get them to accept that things like this should become commonplace. Hitler blamed the communists for the burning down of the Reichstag building in 1933 which is often cited for the establishment of that regime.

 

[Beaker]

I'm not worried about being searched as I have nothing to hide. I find the argument annoying and just a playground for views and it annoys me more when i'm not allowed to disagree with a view. And hitlers power maniac rise to power is a stupid comparison imho

 

[class 313]

I watched that video throughout. They were just doing their job, nothing wrong with being stopped and searched. As Beaker said, if you're innocent then you shouldn't be worried.

Saying 'Well, why should I be searched?' In the name of safety. I'd rather the police search me than do nothing. I agree in some cases the police search people randomly with no sense of suspicion but this isn't always the case.

If the police didn't do such stop 'n' search the public would cry out that the Government aren't doing anything to protect them from 'terroism'. No matter what is done not everyone will be pleased.

One question Yorkie, have you ever been stopped and searched?

And for the record, I have been stopped under the Terrorism act...

 

[yorkie]

One question Yorkie, have you ever been stopped and searched?

Yes, my 'crime' was taking photos at a station. I was told that it was 'suspicious'. They had about 20 mins to wait for a train with football fans on it so needed something to do in the time. I did not get the photo I wanted as a result, and it was fortunate that they finished before my train. The fact I was going for the same train they were meeting was lucky.

And for the record, I have been stopped under the Terrorism act...

You're a photographer, so of course you have. The fact you're young makes it even more likely.

 

[AlexS]

I'm not fussed - for any restricted things I have on me I always carry appropriate documentation anyway - for example I have a few bits of railway kit that I carry if I'm going to the GCR or elsewhere, and I may be in civvies at the time - as a result I keep my GCR ID in my wallet and some Network Rail paperwork I also have in my kit bag.

 

[P156KWJ]

I don't have a problem with Stop and search, however in that video, as far as I know, if you ask to see a PC's ID they have to show it to you. I have not been stopped by the BTP but I have a couple of weeks ago by 2 community support officers who should have been working alongside the BTP at the time on different matters looking for a trespasser in the Nottingham area! :roll:

And yes I agree Alex, whenever I have a carriage key, BR1 key etc. (which is only when going to the GCRN) I have my LNER group of companies permit with me.

 

[yorkie]

I don't have a problem with Stop and search, however in that video, as far as I know, if you ask to see a PC's ID they have to show it to you..

If they are in uniform, they don't have to show ID. But their number needs to be shown on the uniform.

 

[Craig]

I'd be interested to see if they've actually ever found anyone carrying terrorist paraphernalia in these "random" stop and searches. From what I've read elsewhere it seems that they're more likely to use the spurious catch-all terrorism excuse to stop someone in the hope that they'll "co-incidentally" find some evidence of some other crime (typically drugs) that they wouldn't have otherwise been able to find.

I wouldn't expect to be stopped while driving unless I was doing something wrong, so why should I expect it when taking photographs? Do terrorists usually often take photographs of targets while carrying a bag full of explosives and a map with a big X on it?

What does worry me about this video and my own experience of being stopped and searched is the fact they insist on being so thorough but still manage to get fairly important details wrong. In this case they got the guy's date of birth wrong and in my case it was my surname and part of my address (both of which they were reading off my driving licence).

 

[Bayum]

Either way - as been said before

If it helps with keeping down crime and things like that on the railway - then it's fine with me.

 

[BJMorley]

[Rant]

You're a photographer, so of course you have. The fact you're young makes it even more likely.

Yorkie, I am a photographer, and I am young, and I've never been stopped by the police under "the terrorism act". It doesn't matter how old you are, I know older enthusiasts being stopped, even bus enthusiasts.

I would do the same thing Alex and Miles, if I had some railway apparatus, carriage keys or whatever the like, I would still carry identification around with me, just to identify it is mine, and what it's purpose.

If it helps with keeping down crime and things like that on the railway - then it's fine with me.

What crimes that? Photographing a train? A terrorist's really going to bomb a stock move with no one on it...
[/Rant]
Brandon

 

[class 313]

[Rant]
What crimes that? Photographing a train? A terrorist's really going to bomb a stock move with no one on it...
[/Rant]
Brandon

Yes because if a terrorist wants detailed plans of where to best plant a bomb they will take a photo...

 

[richa2002]

Yes because if a terrorist wants detailed plans of where to best plant a bomb they will take a photo...

I personally think that photos of any trains shouldn't be allowed to be posted on the internet in case a terrorist sees them.


...

 

[Crompton Karl]

I really have no problems in being stoped and searched. As long as the officers are polite and courtious and its over ASAP then its cool with me.

Karl

 

[BJMorley]

but since when has a terrorist used a photo in their plans? I want one of you to present one to me. It's going to be hard as terrorists plan when busiest trains, and times are, there not going to provide photographic evidence, they want to create as less as they need to. They have brains and eyes, and can see what they're going to bomb, not pictures.
Brandon

 

[P156KWJ]

you're a bit naive really - of course they'd use photos, they aint gonna remember everything are they? hock:

 

[Tom C]

Having seen hundreds of stop and searches, I can say that they do have some merit.

The sort of things that people carry around with them is quite frightening.

 

[yorkie]

I really have no problems in being stoped and searched. As long as the officers are polite and courtious and its over ASAP then its cool with me.

Karl

Is about 15 mins ASAP enough? If it took 1 minute to quickly put a metal detector to you fine but this is far, far more than that and very time consuming.

you're a bit naive really - of course they'd use photos, they aint gonna remember everything are they? hock:

Do they use SLRs and phot trains? I think not

 

[devon_metro]

The masterminds behind 7/7 went to London to phot the places that they shamefully killed innocent people.

 

[class 313]

The masterminds behind 7/7 went to London to phot the places that they shamefully killed innocent people.

This is true, I remember they went down to London a few weeks before hand to plan their day which included taking photos.

So saying a terrorist wouldn't take photos is just a bloody closed minded statement to make.

 

[Craig]

Do you not think that randomly stopping people on the remote chance that they might be a terrorist is a little bit draconian? How many terrorists have been caught by these random stop and searches?

As I said earlier some of the stop and searches that I've read about have used the pretext of terrorism to search people for other things that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to search for. A lot of these "random" people would seem to fit certain predefined profiles.