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prediction - First West Coast

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RPI

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One thing you find when gates go in is that although you may not take a huge amount at the excess fares window at the gateline, the takings in the surrounding stations ticket offices and on train sales rise dramaticaly!
 
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dvboy

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And judging from the size of the queues to pay platform side, barriers would definitely increase revenue!

The queues for the ticket office, and the size of the concourse are two reasons why barriers won't go in at Wolverhampton before any remodelling of the station. It's been talked about for a long time as part of the Wolverhampton Interchange project - new bus station, trams, reworked street access.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Coventry is an easy gating project I would think...

( regarding revenue protection - once you have a key gating strategy , fraud collapses apart from the off peak chancers , it is a virtuous circle - I have done many checks over my career , and have been astounded as to how much free riding used to go on)

Whilst 80%+ goes past the buffers at Euston ...there are some usefull revenue streams down country.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One thing you find when gates go in is that although you may not take a huge amount at the excess fares window at the gateline, the takings in the surrounding stations ticket offices and on train sales rise dramaticaly!

Spot on !
 

WestCoast

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One thing you find when gates go in is that although you may not take a huge amount at the excess fares window at the gateline, the takings in the surrounding stations ticket offices and on train sales rise dramaticaly!

While it's true that Virgin/FWC do have short distance revenue holes (e.g. Wigan to Warrington, Wilmslow to Stockport, Birmingham International to Coventry e.t.c), barriering comes at a huge cost and a potential inconvenience to longer distance travellers (which will be most passengers on First West Coast). Equally, barriers aren't good at checking fare restrictions, railcards and perhaps most importantly, advance tickets, which FWC will have many more of than other TOCs.

Installing barriers at Preston, for example, will I strongly suspect do more to protect Northern and TPEs revenue, who serve most of the local users. Indeed, Northern will be happy, as they currently pay for up to 3 G4S Inspectors to guard the platforms they most regularly use.

Warrington would certainly please ATW and Northern, again they operate services from nearby stations. I could go on and on...

Remember FWC isn't FGW, shorter distance commuters are very much in the minority. Most FWC stations have other TOCs which supply the local services and they will be the winners from barriers..
 

Wolfie

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Fares dont have to rise to pay for gates at all. You would probably find that the fare box rises directly through the installation of gates as more people actually purchase a ticket then not.

Hum, I am not so sure. I did Kings Cross to Leeds at the weekend on an early morning departure. I had a Kings Cross to Wakefield Advance ticket and a Leeds Wakefield return (why in God's name was KX to Wakefield followed by Wakefield Leeds over £10 cheaper than a Kings Cross to Leeds ticket?). The ticket gates were open at Kings Cross but an inspection was done immediately after departure. After that not a sighting of the guard - doughnuting would have been all too easy.....

Incidentally as a digression I returned Leeds to Wakefield Kirkgate and then Grand Central to Kings Cross (again the ticket split was MUCH cheaper than a direct ticket Leeds to Kings Cross). Kirkgate is the biggest disgrace I have ever seen and I must question its safety.
 

wellhouse

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Hum, I am not so sure. I did Kings Cross to Leeds at the weekend on an early morning departure. I had a Kings Cross to Wakefield Advance ticket and a Leeds Wakefield return (why in God's name was KX to Wakefield followed by Wakefield Leeds over £10 cheaper than a Kings Cross to Leeds ticket?). The ticket gates were open at Kings Cross but an inspection was done immediately after departure. After that not a sighting of the guard - doughnuting would have been all too easy.....

Incidentally as a digression I returned Leeds to Wakefield Kirkgate and then Grand Central to Kings Cross (again the ticket split was MUCH cheaper than a direct ticket Leeds to Kings Cross). Kirkgate is the biggest disgrace I have ever seen and I must question its safety.

Work is due to start soon on the Regeneration of Wakefield Kirkgate.

http://yorkshire.groundwork.org.uk/...ajor-initiatives/kirkgate-regeneration-1.aspx
 

calc7

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Hum, I am not so sure. I did Kings Cross to Leeds at the weekend on an early morning departure. I had a Kings Cross to Wakefield Advance ticket and a Leeds Wakefield return (why in God's name was KX to Wakefield followed by Wakefield Leeds over £10 cheaper than a Kings Cross to Leeds ticket?). The ticket gates were open at Kings Cross but an inspection was done immediately after departure. After that not a sighting of the guard - doughnuting would have been all too easy.....

Incidentally as a digression I returned Leeds to Wakefield Kirkgate and then Grand Central to Kings Cross (again the ticket split was MUCH cheaper than a direct ticket Leeds to Kings Cross). Kirkgate is the biggest disgrace I have ever seen and I must question its safety.

I have too witnessed this phenomenon in the past. I reckon EC are testing customers' price sensitivity to Advances on the "business" Leeds to London route and jacking some trains up a couple of tiers. Wakefield doesn't carry such a premium. Interesting economics.

I agree that WKK is ghastly.
 

ainsworth74

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I reckon EC are testing customers' price sensitivity to Advances on the "business" Leeds to London route and jacking some trains up a couple of tiers.

If that's what they're doing I think they're doing across the network as prices for services from Darlington are noticeably higher even if looking towards the end of October or beginning of November.
 

calc7

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If that's what they're doing I think they're doing across the network as prices for services from Darlington are noticeably higher even if looking towards the end of October or beginning of November.

Yep, could apply to the whole route via York as less provision for the demand than on the West Yorkshire route.
 

dvboy

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While it's true that Virgin/FWC do have short distance revenue holes (e.g. Wigan to Warrington, Wilmslow to Stockport, Birmingham International to Coventry e.t.c), barriering comes at a huge cost and a potential inconvenience to longer distance travellers (which will be most passengers on First West Coast). Equally, barriers aren't good at checking fare restrictions, railcards and perhaps most importantly, advance tickets, which FWC will have many more of than other TOCs.

Installing barriers at Preston, for example, will I strongly suspect do more to protect Northern and TPEs revenue, who serve most of the local users. Indeed, Northern will be happy, as they currently pay for up to 3 G4S Inspectors to guard the platforms they most regularly use.

Warrington would certainly please ATW and Northern, again they operate services from nearby stations. I could go on and on...

Remember FWC isn't FGW, shorter distance commuters are very much in the minority. Most FWC stations have other TOCs which supply the local services and they will be the winners from barriers..

This is exactly what happened at Coventry, so Virgin asked Central Trains to contribute towards their operating costs, and when they refused Virgin took them out.
 

John @ home

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Virgin asked Central Trains to contribute towards their operating costs, and when they refused Virgin took them out.
and the holder of the next West Coast franchise will put them back because it's a franchise condition.
 
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