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Power mad staff

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woodmally1979

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I have been watching some of Francis (the trainspotter) videos. And he has a run in with this station staff member. Why do people love the power and the sound of their own voice and do this.

I cant see what he has done wrong to be honest.

Video summary
The video follows a train enthusiast as they chase trains across London, experiencing both exhilarating moments and frustrating setbacks. The day begins with a successful chase of a high-speed train, but later includes a missed connection and a tense encounter with a station manager. The video ends with a final train sighting and a reflection on the highs and lows of train spotting.
Transcript excerpt
13:23
before you do anything you ask
13:25
for permission yeah right and if you
13:28
want to go and watch train you can see
13:30
through the gate down here it do just
13:32
walk down and plank your on
13:35
the Do Not Just enter the station right
13:38
first you need a ticket to go on the
13:39
platform you didn't have you walk by the
13:42
barrier the train had already gone I
13:44
don't care what train you want to dece
13:46
you ask for permission first...
 
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R

RailUK Forums

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I have been watching some of Francis (the trainspotter) videos. And he has a run in with this station staff member. Why do people love the power and the sound of their own voice and do this.

I cant see what he has done wrong to be honest.

I had a similar encounter (though less heated) at Sydenham. The platform guy was telling me that I had to have a permit and stuff, and that drivers had been complaining. Telling him that it was for YouTube as a passion project made no difference to anything in the moment.
I decided to sit down for a bit and process, and ten minutes later, he comes back and corrects himself and tells me I can do what I like as long as I keep behind the yellow line, not that I hadn’t already been!
 

LYradial

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Perhaps because he is selling on the footage and therefore is running his business on someone else’s property

Moderator note: this post is inaccurate
 
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507 001

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Who is he selling the footage to?

He’s not selling as such, but his social media is monetised.

Having met Francis in person (I have a very brief cameo in one of his videos), I can say with a fair amount of certainty that he’s a genuinely nice guy who goes to every effort to be courteous and safe whilst on the railway. The staff member in this video is just ridiculous.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I wish staff members would realize that enthusiasts are the best friends of the railways in general. They would be the first to recognize anything that is not quite right etc.
 

LowLevel

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He’s not selling as such, but his social media is monetised.

Having met Francis in person (I have a very brief cameo in one of his videos), I can say with a fair amount of certainty that he’s a genuinely nice guy who goes to every effort to be courteous and safe whilst on the railway. The staff member in this video is just ridiculous.
I would concur with that - it isn't really pleasant watching.
 

Parallel

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I’m not sure which platforms Francis was filming from at Wembley Central but they are very funny about platforms 5 and 6 there. When LNWR or Southern trains are due to call there, they have the entrance to the platforms roped off and only allow passengers to go down to the platforms a few minutes before trains arrive. I think this is due to narrow platforms, the volume of fast trains passing through and the strong turbulence as trains pass. I guess it’s probably a high risk area too for fatalities. That said, no need for the station manager to be that aggressive.
 

RJ

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I wish staff members would realize that enthusiasts are the best friends of the railways in general. They would be the first to recognize anything that is not quite right etc.

I'd be cautious about suggesting that enthusiasts who derive enjoyment from the railways necessarily have the railway's best interests at heart - they are two very distinct concepts and there are cases where managing the presence of enthusiasts requires additional staff resource. I see things from both perspectives.

Wembley Central does have special measures in place on the slow line platforms to prevent unnecessary passenger access for safety reasons, so if that's where he happened to be to watch a Class 37 going through, it would be best to alert the staff first to avoid this situation. If accessing the platform to catch a train and standing well back then it wouldn't attract the attention of station staff. It's not exactly typical on the rail network for staff to actively manage access to platforms during service hours, the only other place I've seen this happen is Oban, possibly for different reasons.

As an aside, Wembley Central has long been a good place to watch 37s opening up, just ask the station staff first if going onto those platforms.
 
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SynthD

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How do you tell apart a well meaning enthusiast and an amateur auditor? They’re both people with cameras in an area staff may have to keep clear of members of the public for safety.
 

Bigfoot

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I wish staff members would realize that enthusiasts are the best friends of the railways in general. They would be the first to recognize anything that is not quite right etc.
There was a Tweet or whatever you call it yesterday from an enthusiast which claimed a driver was speeding, using full service brake and using their phone which has now been deleted. They have no way of verifying speed, the use of full service brake is not outlawed and the phone element appears to be an in cab driver assistant tablet. A malicious tweet because they have nothing better to do with their time.
 

LYradial

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I wish staff members would realize that enthusiasts are the best friends of the railways in general. They would be the first to recognize anything that is not quite right etc.
I’ve just watched the video, with friends like that who needs enemies is the phrase that springs to mind
 

RJ

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That's TfL for you. Staff don't know the rules, but enforce them anyway

I cant see what he has done wrong to be honest.

Wembley Central is a special case as there is a long established procedure in place for monitoring the platforms and actively managing access, for safety reasons. If you're going to that location in particular to stand close to the yellow line and film trains, it would actually be advisable to speak to the station staff first.

Most people who watch that video won't understand the context of that location and I would wager that shown this, TfL wouldn't do anything about it. If asked to move on from that location, probably best to get on with it quietly and not enter into an conflict with the station manager about it, when it has been standard procedure for access to be managed for safety reasons for many years.

This specific circumstance isn't a fight that's worth picking.
 
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bramling

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I have been watching some of Francis (the trainspotter) videos. And he has a run in with this station staff member. Why do people love the power and the sound of their own voice and do this.

I cant see what he has done wrong to be honest.


Okay first of all, and as usual, we haven’t seen what happened previously.

Nonetheless, this member of staff does not reflect credit on his employer. He comes across as scruffy and belligerent.

Those who are genuinely “power mad” tend to crumble once dealt with assertively.
 

Horizon22

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There was a Tweet or whatever you call it yesterday from an enthusiast which claimed a driver was speeding, using full service brake and using their phone which has now been deleted. They have no way of verifying speed, the use of full service brake is not outlawed and the phone element appears to be an in cab driver assistant tablet. A malicious tweet because they have nothing better to do with their time.

Yes this is the kind of enthusiast behaviour which is frustrating (the "I know better" crowd) but most are relatively well-meaning, if a little quirky!
 

Discuss223

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So, did the man in the video have a ticket to be in the Compulsory Ticket Area? I thought having good personable skills was a key part of the role of a Station Manager? The Manager could have said "Good afternoon sir, can I check your ticket please?" and then dealt with the matter accordingly. Instead, he seems to assume the man has no ticket without asking. His whole tone is foul and not a way to speak to a potential customer. Would the man have approached and spoken to the young chap in this way had he been a burly 6 foot 5 body builder? I highly doubt so. There is a word for people who choose to start with those they believe won't defend themselves, I shan't say it here. The photography rules as I understand it, are that if you are passing through the station to make a connection, you can video within reason at your will. If you are there to visit the station solely to photograph, you must obtain permission from a member of staff first. It does seem from the way the video is edited that the gentleman who was told off was just passing through, but we don't know the full story and I do stress this here. The Manager seems to hold a great disdain for enthusiasts, which is a shame as there are plenty of sectors that don't attract enthusiast attention, so to choose one of the few that does and be so aggravated by it, is unfortunate.
 
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Considering “Francis’ “ considerable following (2.4 million last time I looked that includes some quite big celebrities from here and overseas), you’d think that the staff member might have approached the conversation with a little more cheerful alacrity and a little less of the stereotypical entitled brusqueness that does occasionally appear common in our industry.
 

NewarkRed

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No doubt his followers will flood social media accounts to complain like Geoff Marshall or the RDG sponsored Stuart.
 

bramling

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No doubt his followers will flood social media accounts to complain like Geoff Marshall or the RDG sponsored Stuart.

That’s the problem when a member of staff makes an exhibition of themselves. If he’d just politely and firmly explained that these platforms have special safety procedures then there wouldn’t be anything for anyone to see.

The moment someone is waving their finger and making copious use of the word “permission” in a raised voice then we’re into school playground territory.
 

Discuss223

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That’s the problem when a member of staff makes an exhibition of themselves. If he’d just politely and firmly explained that these platforms have special safety procedures then there wouldn’t be anything for anyone to see.

The moment someone is waving their finger and making copious use of the word “permission” in a raised voice then we’re into school playground territory.
As a Station Manager, I'd fully expect him to know the importance of projecting a good image for the company. He should be setting the standard for customer service and demonstrating to his team how it's done. There was no reason for the raising of his voice and addressing the young man with contempt.
 

Egg Centric

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I'm still irritated with Wembley Central for not letting me break an advance on a non reserved/itinerary leg (I understand I technically have no contractual right to do this but this was Watford High Street to somewhere or other hundreds of miles away, probably Durham but could have been even Inverness or Torquay) just to go use some shops. And the way they did it - although a different staff member - was just as confrontational. So I do think something isn't quite right there.
 

KNN

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I think we can all agree the member of staff was needlessly rude and aggressive.

But having said that, you are meant to ask permission. And if it's for commercial use (which this is) pay a fee.
 

bramling

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I'm still irritated with Wembley Central for not letting me break an advance on a non reserved/itinerary leg (I understand I technically have no contractual right to do this but this was Watford High Street to somewhere or other hundreds of miles away, probably Durham but could have been even Inverness or Torquay) just to go use some shops. And the way they did it - although a different staff member - was just as confrontational. So I do think something isn't quite right there.

I suspect it’s an awful station to work at, but that doesn’t excuse picking on low-lying fruit.
 

Discuss223

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I suspect it’s an awful station to work at, but that doesn’t excuse picking on low-lying fruit.
That's what I was trying to articulate. People who want to have a go tend to pick on those who they feel won't speak up for themselves.
 

bramling

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Ironically this is where enthusiasts would have more fun. I reckon letting yourself into the fast line platforms (afaik not accessible ever by the public outside of incidents) and watching a 390 go through at full pelt would be mega!

Doubt the actual staff see it that way though. ;)

The experience at Stevenage isn’t too far from that.

Jokes aside, Wembley Central is a horrible station, in a horrible area. I bet it isn’t a popular one to work at.
 

Vespa

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I've seen this video before on YouTube it's not pleasant to watch, I wouldn't have been so calm as Francis is, there's no way would I take this abuse off anybody.

Shouting at an unknown member of the public is very risky, the reaction would be potentially dangerous as the next time he wakes up is in a hospital and the MOP has done a runner jumping over the barrier untraced.
 

Andy Pacer

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I've seen this video before on YouTube it's not pleasant to watch, I wouldn't have been so calm as Francis is, there's no way would I take this abuse off anybody.

Shouting at an unknown member of the public is very risky, the reaction would be potentially dangerous as the next time he wakes up is in a hospital and the MOP has done a runner jumping over the barrier untraced.
Agreed, Luke did well to keep his cool although of course he would have also known he was being recorded too.
Does make you wonder why people would be such jobsworths when they can see they're being recorded.
 

AlterEgo

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I think we can all agree the member of staff was needlessly rude and aggressive.

But having said that, you are meant to ask permission. And if it's for commercial use (which this is) pay a fee.
Vlogging isn’t commercial use.

Commercial use is a term landowners use in this context to stop other companies from filming adverts on their property and the like, and exists because they can extract a good fee to film there. That’s not the case with just anyone filming a vlog, whether it gets monetised or someone drops them a PayPal donation later because they like the video.

You don’t need permission to film yourself or trains at a station, usually, although Wembley Central has unique procedures which others have mentioned due to safety.
 

dosxuk

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Vlogging isn’t commercial use.

Commercial use is a term landowners use in this context to stop other companies from filming adverts on their property and the like, and exists because they can extract a good fee to film there. That’s not the case with just anyone filming a vlog, whether it gets monetised or someone drops them a PayPal donation later because they like the video.
Debatable

"Commercial use" covers everything that isn't "Personal use" - it's nothing to do with filming adverts. Vlogging for the purposes of producing a video that is shared publicly would be difficult to argue is personal use - especially if it was produced specifically for a monetised channel. What is the difference between a BBC producer videoing trains at a station for part of a blog post on their website, and a YouTuber videoing themselves chasing trains for views on their channel?

Personally, I don't see why so many vloggers have such a problem with going and checking in with the places they wish to film, it's so very rarely an issue, and it's generally much better to have the argument about whether they should allow you on their premises in a nice warm office with a senior member of staff who can actually make decisions, than someone who's cold, wet, fed up and just trying to do their job on a platform edge.
 
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