Power mad staff

[duffield]

Not a lot of dispatch happening when the train is arriving though. It’s just completely unnecessary.

Also, very selectively enforced, at some stations one toe over the line gets people shouted at, at other stations the staff don't seem bothered unless there are people right near the edge. So people may well be used to being able to (e.g.) cross the yellow line to get past obstructions and move along the platform (often the only way to get by) with no shouting, then they go to a different station and get the full blast for doing exactly the same thing, which must be both confusing and irritating.

 

[vicbury]

More and more staff act in such a power hungry way and it makes the railway a less and less appealing place to be.

Screaming along platforms for people to stand behind the yellow line as their trains are approaching seems to be the latest fashion. The yellow line that was provided for fast trains but now apparently applies to all trains. Just another example of the railway being particularly customer unfriendly (where else do you hear staff shouting at innocent people within seconds of arriving at a business?)

Standard procedure at Cardiff Central. Quite aggressively too.

 

[bramling]

Wembley Central has very narrow platforms and is somewhat of a wind tunnel. Thus, access is not available to the fast line platforms at all, and on the slow line platforms access is only opened after no train is going to pass through before the arrival of the hourly Southern, and closed once the platform has cleared post departure. It's a unique way of operating that I'm fairly sure has signage of some sort, and seem to recall it's only enforced by way of Tensabarriers. For that reason, if you're wanting to photograph a train on the WCML Wembley Central isn't the place to do it, as access is almost certain to be refused for anything other than the purpose of boarding/alighting from the Southern.

Only the Overground platforms are accessible at all times.

From what the guy was saying it sounds a bit like the YouTuber may have ducked under/opened that Tensabarrier himself to get onto the platform. If so, while I don't think anger is a sensible response to any situation, the member of staff would probably have been within his rights to chuck him out of the station for entering a non-public area, which is actually a Byelaw offence for which he could have technically been prosecuted - but ideally to do so politely - "I"m afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave the station because..."

It's a very unusual case indeed, the only other place this sort of thing is in place (that I know of) is Bushey on the down fast, though I suspect you'd also get short shrift if you were the wrong side of the fast line gates at any other south WCML platform, if only to avoid the risk of suicides. That is different of course because it's easy enough to film from the correct side of them just like a lineside fence - at Wembley Central there's no permissible place to be where you could clearly film trains on the slows or fasts aside from the arrival/departure of the Southern service.

I wonder if the staff might have had a report via the signaller about people being on the platform, which could explain the staff anger. Could and should have been handled better though.

I presume they don’t allow enthusiasts on the platform there even with permission?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if the staff might have had a report via the signaller about people being on the platform, which could explain the staff anger. Could and should have been handled better though.

Agreed.

I presume they don’t allow enthusiasts on the platform there even with permission?

Nobody at all (whether enthusiast or simple passenger and whether holding a ticket or not) is permitted on the WCML fast/slow platforms other than to board/alight the Southern service, and you are only allowed down once it has been confirmed that the train in front of the Southern has passed through the station. They'd probably let you film the Southern but only that and you'd have to leave with the alighting passengers once it departed.

 

[1D54]

I think the last time I needed a platform ticket I was 8 !!!

Been sent to the ticket office at Glasgow Queen Street twice in the past few weeks to get one. They cost 10p.

 

[7Sonofa7Son]

If it can be heard then that's fine. However very often staff doing it don't have the kind of "booming", deep voice needed to do that and it just comes across as random screaming.

Yeah, not everyone is blessed like I am I suppose haha.

Dispatchers being able to make PA announcements certainly help, as that's much clearer.

I agree. I'd always make sure I have access to one.

 

[Discuss223]

WIthout seeing the start of Francis' interaction with the station staff it's hard to say if the Station Manager overreacted here and was out of order. Who knows what happened beforehand? I don't.

That's a good point. It is edited rather strangely.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wonder if the staff might have had a report via the signaller about people being on the platform, which could explain the staff anger. Could and should have been handled better though.

I presume they don’t allow enthusiasts on the platform there even with permission?

I don't think they would allow anyone down there. It is a real wind tunnel to be fair and I think they are right to deem it not safe for the public to be down there when trains pass.

That's a good point. It is edited rather strangely.

Doesn't seem strange at all. Looks like the camera person just turned the camera on once they became aware Francis was being shouted at.

 

[Deepgreen]

Okay first of all, and as usual, we haven’t seen what happened previously.

Nonetheless, this member of staff does not reflect credit on his employer. He comes across as scruffy and belligerent.

Those who are genuinely “power mad” tend to crumble once dealt with assertively.

On the few occasions that my photography at stations has attracted such unwanted and unwarranted attention, I ask them if they want to call the BTP and waste their time, or shall I, on their behalf? Hasn't failed yet.

 

[Dr Hoo]

On the few occasions that my photography at stations has attracted such unwanted and unwarranted attention, I ask them if they want to call the BTP and waste their time, or shall I, on their behalf? Hasn't failed yet.

How often do you go to the WCML platforms at Wembley Central as a matter of interest?

 

[Deepgreen]

Agreed.



Nobody at all (whether enthusiast or simple passenger and whether holding a ticket or not) is permitted on the WCML fast/slow platforms other than to board/alight the Southern service, and you are only allowed down once it has been confirmed that the train in front of the Southern has passed through the station. They'd probably let you film the Southern but only that and you'd have to leave with the alighting passengers once it departed.

If that is enforced properly, it makes it quite an unusual situation in the UK, if not unique.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

How often do you go to the WCML platforms at Wembley Central as a matter of interest?

Never, and if it is signed as being forbidden/controlled, I wouldn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If that is enforced properly, it makes it quite an unusual situation in the UK, if not unique.

Indeed. Imagine if trains ran through Birmingham New St at 110/125mph and you can understand why it's unique among mainline stations!

 

[1D54]

On the few occasions that my photography at stations has attracted such unwanted and unwarranted attention, I ask them if they want to call the BTP and waste their time, or shall I, on their behalf? Hasn't failed yet.

Depending on how you say it that could come across as confrontational. I've been asked questions at Stratford (London) but they are all good guys there and they probably report that i have been spoken to and am fine.

 

[Discuss223]

Indeed. Imagine if trains ran through Birmingham New St at 110/125mph and you can understand why it's unique among mainline stations!

Indeed. Imagine if trains ran through Birmingham New St at 110/125mph and you can understand why it's unique among mainline stations!

I'd imagine with it being so enclosed, the pressure of the train penetrating the station shed creates a vacuum pump effect at high speeds.

 

[RJ]

WIthout seeing the start of Francis' interaction with the station staff it's hard to say if the Station Manager overreacted here and was out of order. Who knows what happened beforehand? I don't.

From the station manager’s response, it is implied Francis was explaining to him that he was there videoing trains. If he has drawn sufficient attention to himself to be spotted by someone who works in the office upstairs and been asked to leave for safety reasons at a station with special platform access procedures, it wouldn’t really be advisable to argue the toss with a member of staff who is doing their job.

And sometimes if it seems somebody is taking umbrage with a safety instruction, then maybe only a more brusque approach is the language that would be understood.

The bit of the clip shown only shows part of the exchange, but it’s a certainty if you don’t speak to the staff first and you get spotted on those platforms, you’re almost certainly going to be ordered to leave the platform for safety reasons.

 

[MrCheeseGrater]

From what the guy was saying it sounds a bit like the YouTuber may have ducked under/opened that Tensabarrier himself to get onto the platform.

There are other (presumably) members of the public on the platform in the background so it looks as though the it was open to the public at the time.

Though many are discussing the issue of whether Francis should or shouldn't have been on the platform as being the station staff's grievance, I think his issue, (with its disgraceful reaction), was that Francis did not ask for permission to film.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are other (presumably) members of the public on the platform in the background so it looks as though the it was open to the public at the time.

There was one at the time the 37 was going through. It would be extremely unusual for anyone to be let down when there was still another train to pass before the next Southern, so it's not clear that that other person didn't also duck the barrier or similar. A few more appear after that which would indicate it having been opened after the 37 passed.

It is to be fair also possible that the staff had omitted to close the Tensabarrier or someone else had opened it before either of them entered that platform (the two platforms are separately controlled).

The people on the other platform aren't relevant, they manage the two sides separately.

It's a very, very unusual case there. I've looked for pictures of the inside but I can't see any unfortunately. Not that the guy wasn't overdoing it, but generally one would not expect to be allowed onto those platforms outside of boarding/alighting the Southern. The one time I did it was scarily close to departure, too, there was no sign of anybody to let you in until a minute or two beforehand.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

How do you tell apart a well meaning enthusiast and an amateur auditor? They’re both people with cameras in an area staff may have to keep clear of members of the public for safety.

How can you not tell the difference?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Not condoning the station manager here but why would you assume he (or anyone else) knows who "Francis" is? YouTubers or YouTube in general means naff all to a lot of people.

I think that's a good point, even though Luke's work is quite well known amongst us is imagine there are plenty of enthusiasts who aren't active on social media never mind employees.
But at the same time it shouldn't matter anyway.

 

[DesiroOperator]

Not condoning the station manager here but why would you assume he (or anyone else) knows who "Francis" is? YouTubers or YouTube in general means naff all to a lot of people.

Well for a start he’s not exclusively on YouTube, I’m about as disinterested in social media as you can be but he’s got an absolutely huge following, has appeared on TV, done collaborations with some quite famous celebrities and has worked with several TOC’s and network rail to complete some social media work too. Now I’m not saying you’d have to have been under a rock, but…

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Also, very selectively enforced, at some stations one toe over the line gets people shouted at, at other stations the staff don't seem bothered unless there are people right near the edge. So people may well be used to being able to (e.g.) cross the yellow line to get past obstructions and move along the platform (often the only way to get by) with no shouting, then they go to a different station and get the full blast for doing exactly the same thing, which must be both confusing and irritating.

I do find it particularly hypocritical when I've seen dispatchers/security staff yelling at people who put a toe over the yellow line, then proceeding to walk between the yellow line and platform edge with their back to traffic, sometimes while chatting to a colleague. That orange hi-vis isn't going to protect you from a freight sneaking up behind at high speed!

In one case, a member of staff was yelling at a load of enthusiasts wanting to photograph an approaching steam train, then promptly stepped over the yellow line right to the edge so she could take a photo herself (blocking everyone else's view in the process)!

 

[superkopite]

Well for a start he’s not exclusively on YouTube, I’m about as disinterested in social media as you can be but he’s got an absolutely huge following, has appeared on TV, done collaborations with some quite famous celebrities and has worked with several TOC’s and network rail to complete some social media work too. Now I’m not saying you’d have to have been under a rock, but…

That's just not true. It's a ridiculous assertion. I have worked in rail for 10 years, I spend my life on social media and YouTube and have only ever come across this guy once. I had forgotten all about him until I saw this post and certainly wouldn't recognise him if I saw him on a station platform vlogging.

 

[66701GBRF]

That's just not true. It's a ridiculous assertion. I have worked in rail for 10 years, I spend my life on social media and YouTube and have only ever come across this guy once. I had forgotten all about him until I saw this post and certainly wouldn't recognise him if I saw him on a station platform vlogging.

I must have lived under a rock too as untill he turned up to do some GBRF stuff last year I had no idea who he was.

 

[43066]

Well for a start he’s not exclusively on YouTube, I’m about as disinterested in social media as you can be but he’s got an absolutely huge following, has appeared on TV, done collaborations with some quite famous celebrities and has worked with several TOC’s and network rail to complete some social media work too. Now I’m not saying you’d have to have been under a rock, but…

Most staff are not enthusiasts and as such are pretty unlikely to have come across him.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Most staff are not enthusiasts and as such as pretty unlikely to have come across him.

And besides, just because Luke is "famous" amongst certain circles he still shouldn't be treated any differently to anyone else.

 

[DesiroOperator]

And besides, just because Luke is "famous" amongst certain circles he still shouldn't be treated any differently to anyone else.

But maybe we shouldn’t be treating anyone the way he was in the video.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==

Most staff are not enthusiasts and as such are pretty unlikely to have come across him.

The point I was making is that his sphere of influence is predominantly not, in fact, made up of other enthusiasts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==

I must have lived under a rock too as untill he turned up to do some GBRF stuff last year I had no idea who he was.

But you do in fact know who he was. The point is railway staff really need to stop talking to people this way. Particularly people with cameras in a world of social media. It makes us all look bad.

 

[Andy Pacer]

But maybe we shouldn’t be treating anyone the way he was in the video

Exactly my point.

 

[RJ]

But maybe we shouldn’t be treating anyone the way he was in the video.

The reality is that among the regimented element on the railway, there is an attitude of “this is my train” or “this is my station” and a belief that they can speak to people how they like. Usually, if they know they are being recorded, this approach does change but if not, it’s their word against the passenger’s and complaints are usually binned in these circumstances. It looks like the guy in the video didn’t realise he was being recorded, but at the same time clearly there was a protest to being asked to desist. Anyone who works on a station and has had a need to require someone to move on will probably recognise that the polite approach often doesn’t work in the very first instance and a more direct approach might be the only thing thereafter that will get the message across.

Given the safety sensitivities at Wembley Central, if it’s too much speak to the station staff first then perhaps a different location to film would have been a better option. But that station will attract the enthusiasts who are into engine noise as they are almost guaranteed to open up when coming out of Wembley Yard. The staff will probably be aware, but their priority is to stick to their safety procedures.

 

[Annetts key]

I'd imagine with it being so enclosed, the pressure of the train penetrating the station shed creates a vacuum pump effect at high speeds.

Point of order. No station (not even enclosed stations like New Street) can get anywhere near the air pressure effects of a high speed train (100 MPH) or of a fairly fast freight train passing through a long tunnel. Before the track safety rules were changed, railway maintenance staff used refuges inside such tunnels, the refuges being constructed in the tunnel walls. When a train entered a tunnel (you could tell because of the pressure change) the place of safety was in the refuges. The distance between the train and the member of staff typically being between 0.8 metre and 1 metre.

Alas in some areas the intention of certain safety measures has been diluted. The purpose of the yellow lines was to encourage people to stand back on platforms where passing trains did pass at a sufficiently fast speed that the air turbulence did present a significant risk to people unaccustomed with this risk.

Now you see yellow lines painted/provided on platforms where the line speed is 15MPH or lower! What nonsense. This confuses people and means the true intention is lost.

Please note that none of what I said means that I disagree with certain platforms being closed to the public/passengers if a proper risk assessment has concluded that such platforms do have an unacceptable level of risk.

 

[66701GBRF]

But you do in fact know who he was.

How does that mean every railway staff member knows or should know who he is?