Potential Prosecution

[Tevion539]

So theoretically if I am cooperative and provide all information, it should make it easier for them and hopefully cheaper for me?

Hadders' advice earlier in the thread is best to follow. Right now all you can do is wait for contact and prepare yourself for any outcome. Crucially don't expect them to offer anything, the ball is entirely in their court.

 

[Haywain]

* There is another priced fare at £134 (route: not via London). I'm really not sure how that differs from the route via Ely ticket,

Not relevant to the OP, but it's valid via Stevenage.

 

[Gashers]

The other way of looking at this is to ask yourself: "What is more likely to happen if I'm uncooperative?"

It was more of a sense of providing information they may need but hadn’t asked for so it is easier for them

 

[Hadders]

Just to pick up on:

That’s not great news. I bought a legitimate ticket from Newmarket to Leeds with a saver card for my friend.. How do they know which journeys I have used?

This is a tricky one. If you tell GTR you bought it for a friend they could ask to see a copy of your friend's railcard. If that is also a forged railcard then that could be a problem for your friend.

The best thing to do now is put the matter to the back of you mind and get on with your life. When the letter from GTR arrives come back here and we can advise on next steps.

 

[Gashers]

Just to pick up on:


This is a tricky one. If you tell GTR you bought it for a friend they could ask to see a copy of your friend's railcard. If that is also a forged railcard then that could be a problem for your friend.

The best thing to do now is put the matter to the back of you mind and get on with your life. When the letter from GTR arrives come back here and we can advise on next steps.

That sounds great, thank you. I spoke with my girlfriend’s parents today who both work for the police and they reckon it will only be a fine however they don’t know too much about this sector. I will update when the letter arrives

 

[Hadders]

That sounds great, thank you. I spoke with my girlfriend’s parents today who both work for the police and they reckon it will only be a fine however they don’t know too much about this sector. I will update when the letter arrives

Technically speaking a fine can only be imposed as a punishment by a court upon conviction. You don't want to pay a fine! What I think your girlfriends parents are saying is they think it will be dealt with by menas of an out of court settlement. Paying a settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't.

To be blunt, I respectfully suggest your girlfriends parents do some research into the consequences of fraudulently altering a railcard. Perhaps they could start by reading tis thread.

 

[WesternLancer]

Technically speaking a fine can only be imposed as a punishment by a court upon conviction. You don't want to pay a fine! What I think your girlfriends parents are saying is they think it will be dealt with by menas of an out of court settlement. Paying a settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't.

To be blunt, I respectfully suggest your girlfriends parents do some research into the consequences of fraudulently altering a railcard. Perhaps they could start by reading tis thread.

I wondered if what said parents were getting at was that it would be dealt with financially eg either court fine or settlement as opposed to any prospect of say prison.

 

[Gashers]

I think they believe it’ll be dealt with out of court through a settlement. They’ve completely ruled of a prison sentence but not court action.

 

[notmyrealname]

As you said though, your girlfriend's parents don't work in the rail sector. If you re-read Hadders' post early on in your thread, he doesn't mention prison but he says you should be prepared for this to go to court.

You might be lucky and be offered an out of court settlement if you co-operate.

 

[Gashers]

As you said though, your girlfriend's parents don't work in the rail sector. If you re-read Hadders' post early on in your thread, he doesn't mention prison but he says you should be prepared for this to go to court.

You might be lucky and be offered an out of court settlement if you co-operate.

Yep that’s what I’m hoping for. The past 48 hours have been a whirlwind to be honest. I understand I can’t do anything until the letter arrives but I’ve booked in a wellbeing meeting through college to hopefully ease things.

 

[Tevion539]

Although it is possible to be given up to 3 months imprisonment under a regulation of railways act 1889 (section 5) conviction, my understanding is it has to be a second offence and is at discretion of the courts. This almost never happens and convictions are usually dealt with by way of fines and a criminal record. Except for extreme cases.

Now, a conviction under the fraud act can't carry a much heavier sentence, but that's much harder to prove, but given the altered railcard I would argue there was fraudulent intent there. Enough for a conviction? Who knows.

GTR would be within their rights to prosecute for this as mentioned many times above. Do not discount this as a possibility. It really isn't advisable to push them to do this.

There really isn't anything you can do from this point but to wait for Comms from GTR.

 

[Gashers]

Although it is possible to be given up to 3 months imprisonment under a regulation of railways act 1889 (section 5) conviction, my understanding is it has to be a second offence and is at discretion of the courts. This almost never happens and convictions are usually dealt with by way of fines and a criminal record. Except for extreme cases.

Now, a conviction under the fraud act can't carry a much heavier sentence, but that's much harder to prove, but given the altered railcard I would argue there was fraudulent intent there. Enough for a conviction? Who knows.

GTR would be within their rights to prosecute for this as mentioned many times above. Do not discount this as a possibility. It really isn't advisable to push them to do this.

There really isn't anything you can do from this point but to wait for Comms from GTR.

I see, thank you. Is my age taken into account with a decision? The fact this is a first offense for something like this and that I have only just turned 18 could possibly change the outcome?

 

[Tevion539]

I really highly doubt there will be a prison sentence. Again. There could be an out of court settlement, but they would be within their rights to prosecute which carries a fine and a criminal record.

You need to wait until GTR contact you.

 

[WesternLancer]

I see, thank you. Is my age taken into account with a decision? The fact this is a first offense for something like this and that I have only just turned 18 could possibly change the outcome?

If it got to court and you were there it’s hard to imagine a magistrate not taking those things into consideration when deciding any punishment.

But with help and advice from here I’m pretty confident it won’t get to court anyway and you can get it sorted.

Try not to worry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2024 ==

If it got to court and you were there it’s hard to imagine a magistrate not taking those things into consideration when deciding any punishment.

But with help and advice from here I’m pretty confident it won’t get to court anyway and you can get it sorted.

Try not to worry.

If your own efforts to get a settlement don’t work you could consider solicitors help though of course that would involve their fees of perhaps £600ish.

If you are at uni / college you could ask if they have any arrangements via the students union for free or reduced cost legal advice via the students union. Though that would probably be a general solicitor rather than one of the rail fare evasion solicitors that specialise in the topic.

 

[Hadders]

Just to be absolutely clear, even if you end up in court and are convicted, you will NOT be going to prison for this.

 

[island]

Although it is possible to be given up to 3 months imprisonment under a regulation of railways act 1889 (section 5) conviction, my understanding is it has to be a second offence and is at discretion of the courts. This almost never happens and convictions are usually dealt with by way of fines and a criminal record. Except for extreme cases.

Indeed. Whilst the legislation allows for it, the sentencing guidelines, which magistrates almost invariably follow, top off at a fine. Someone with a string of previous convictions, high-value offending, or with several aggravating factors like abuse of staff, might at a push get a community order with unpaid work.

None of this will happen in this case.

 

[Gashers]

Thank you, that’s reassuring. Will make sure to update you all when the letter arrives.

 

[Hadders]

Indeed. Whilst the legislation allows for it, the sentencing guidelines, which magistrates almost invariably follow, top off at a fine. Someone with a string of previous convictions, high-value offending, or with several aggravating factors like abuse of staff, might at a push get a community order with unpaid work.

None of this will happen in this case.

Absolutely agree. In any case the prisons are overflowing, with early release in place to manage numbers. There is absolutely no way anyone is going to prison for a railway ticketing conviction.

 

[Bungle158]

Prosecution for fraud, which is unlikely, though not impossible. as opposed to a bylaw or Regulation of Railways Act charge, would potentially be far more serious in terms of impact. On the basis of your age and the info provided, it is 99.9%+ unlikely that you will end up behind bars. However, fraud cases can also be heard or disposed of at Crown Court and that is a whole new world of stress and angst. A fraud conviction on your record could also negatively affect your path through life, at least for the next few years.

Cooperate, don't seek to pick holes in the investigation and politely suggest that your lesson is learned. Ask if they would consider a settlement. Good luck

 

[Gashers]

Hi all, 15 days on from the incident and I have not received a letter yet. Is this good news as they may not be prioritising my case, bad news as it could’ve been lost and that falls back on me, or completely normal. Thanks

 

[John R]

Hi all, 15 days on from the incident and I have not received a letter yet. Is this good news as they may not be prioritising my case, bad news as it could’ve been lost and that falls back on me, or completely normal. Thanks

Completely normal. You’re in a queue, and will eventually be dealt with.

 

[Gashers]

Completely normal. You’re in a queue, and will eventually be dealt with.

Thank you. Do you know the average wait time?

 

[Tevion539]

Thank you. Do you know the average wait time?

It depends how many people they're dealing with. They have up to 6 months from the date you got caught.

 

[Gashers]

It depends how many people they're dealing with. They have up to 6 months from the date you got caught.

Great thanks. So theoretically if I don’t hear from them in 5 1/2 months the case is discarded?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you. Do you know the average wait time?

if you are a student and it gets near the end of term and they have your term time address - and if you are away over xmas hols you need to put a plan in place to get your post whilst you are away - either a trusted person at the address or set up a Royal Mail postal redirect - see their website - they need several days (a week ?) to set that up so be mindful of getting it in place a day or so before you go away in that scenario.

There are lots of GTR cases on here you can look at which will give you a timeline of when they play out which will help you get an idea of how long a letter from them often takes (I'd say 6 to 8 weeks maybe). Or a case on today from incident in July where the 1st the person heard about it was a couple of days ago when court papers arrived...(it's suspect that earlier post probably got lost and not delivered in that case)

 

[Tevion539]

Great thanks. So theoretically if I don’t hear from them in 5 1/2 months the case is discarded?

I believe criminally, yes.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Great thanks. So theoretically if I don’t hear from them in 5 1/2 months the case is discarded?

Indeed. But regard that possibility with equal likelihood as Donald Trump being our next PM.

 

[Elecman]

Great thanks. So theoretically if I don’t hear from them in 5 1/2 months the case is discarded?

They have until mid May to lay prosecution papers at the magistrates court so your not in the clear from a criminal prosecution until at least mid June.

 

[Gashers]

Update: No update. No letter received yet. I’m starting to wonder whether to contact GTR. Could they have completely dropped the case, is there a possibility of the case being lost?

 

[Hadders]

As long as you gace the ticket inspector you correct address there is nothing to be gained by contacting GTR.