Positive things about Voyagers.....

[devon_metro]

I love how fast these trains zoom through St Denys in Southampton.

I don't, must be the only trains going past that are loud enough to be overheard.

 

[Pumbaa]

You see, it's misinformation like this which can do enthusiast forums such as this a disservice. Why, in the face of facts that XCs 221s in 2009 and XCs 220s in 2010 being the most reliable post privatisation DMUs in the country, would you say what you've said?

It is blatantly not true for one.

Internally they are, with the seat cushions rotated on a frequent basis by Central Rivers, and they were all re-upholstered during the mini-refresh with the rejigging of Coach D.

Both XC and VT are now different customers of Central Rivers (their exact name escapes me for now) and both have different specs for looking after their interior. VT pay more, VT get more.

Apologies for the confusion - I was referring to the internals not reliability.

 

[northwichcat]

Positive:
* More comfortable seating than on 185s and 350s.

 

[junglejames]

Only positives I can think of are the tilt function and the speed, everything else is dreadful. They are cramped, uncomfortable, loud, rattly, have no legroom, they're too short and the reserved booking system never works so you always end up being kicked out of your seat if you find a good one. Oh and they're so ugly.

One of the worst trains to ever operate in Britain.

I agree with everything you say here, however still have to pull you up. Why? Because you say you love pendos. If Voyagers are cramped and uncomfy, then what about pendos? Exactly the same seats, and a similar narrow feeling inside. In fact the interior decor on a pendo makes them feel more claustrophobic. So surely you find pendos cramped and uncomfy?

Anyway. good points about a Voyager. Speed and tilt, and thats it. They smell funny frequently. Seats are too hard, too upright, and too narrow. They are pushed right up against the bulkhead, meaning very little room to move. Armrests are far too narrow. Legroom is better than when they first came out. I find them ok legroom wise.
The lightweight bogies on the 220s are also a pain, because they are poor riding. You feel every nook and cranny in the rail. The 221s are ok riding, because of the heavier bogie.
Also, they are all horrible and rattly. Everything inside seems to rattle. Real pain.
But hey, some people love them, and find them comfy (ive yet to find a cure for these people!!)

 

[MCR247]

VT ones smell a lot less than the XC ones though....

 

[starrymarkb]

I'd rank 22x's as giving one of the best rides on the network, not quite up there with the 158 (which seems smooth even on very rough track) but certainly equal to a Mk3 IMO

 

[SprinterMan]

Do the Virgin 221s reatin their shops? I know XC removed the shops from theirs but I don't know about Virgin. And will the tilt be active for the entire journey or only as far as Crewe?

 

[MCR247]

Virgin still have shops, and the tilt will only be active as far as Crewe

 

[142094]

Positve things about Voyagers? Getting off one.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Fantastic View
Attentive Service (in First Class)
Reliable
Fast
Lack of Railway Enthusiasts

 

[142094]

Reliable

Reliable as in miles per casualty or reliable as on time? Most of the time I see a Voayger it is at least a few minutes late.

 

[ainsworth74]

Actually another think I like about Voyager's is that they have blinds on the windows in Standard class, very handy when the sun is low in the sky and blinding you!

 

[MCR247]

Reliable as in miles per casualty or reliable as on time? Most of the time I see a Voayger it is at least a few minutes late.

Well that doesn't mean its the voyager's fault?

 

[142094]

Well that doesn't mean its the voyager's fault?

Depends on what it is delayed by, sometimes could be a train fault.

 

[Ivo]

Positve things about Voyagers? Getting off one.

I will concede, I do like the distinctive start-up "growl" in Voyagers. It's so much more interesting that that of your average Pacer or Sprinter.

 

[tbtc]

Reliable as in miles per casualty or reliable as on time? Most of the time I see a Voayger it is at least a few minutes late.

Given the nature of running from Plymouth to Edinburgh I'd be impressed if any unit managed to stay on time on each journey. A delay of a minute at Bristol might mean missing its path into Birmingham, getting caught behind the Cross City service, missing its platform at New Street, by the time you know it it's ten minutes late, and finding obstacles in its way. Obviously this is the fault of the Voyager, and the 47s that used to run the route were always on time...

 

[387star]

I will concede, I do like the distinctive start-up "growl" in Voyagers. It's so much more interesting that that of your average Pacer or Sprinter.

Exactly! see my post :P

Can Voyagers be tilt activated? It is more furiating they have a crampt interior for the sake of standardisation/costing when they do not tilt!

 

[ainsworth74]

Can Voyagers be tilt activated?

Virgin 221s use tilt when on the WCML. XC 221s have had their tilt either removed or isolated (I'm not sure which exactly). 220s have never been fitted with tilt and I'm not sure they could be as they have different bogies to the 221s.

 

[Pumbaa]

Isolated effectively. Tilt functions on TMS de-activated, and the tilt mechanism removed and replaced with solid steel bars.

 

[387star]

sorry was referring to the pure voyagers... class 220

 

[Pumbaa]

I'm not sure. Potentially yes I suppose, replace the bogies and axles, final drives etc onto the new tilt bogies, insert the tilt equipment (all the space is there for it, same body profiles and basic equipment etc) and activate the tilt computers.

 

[387star]

Interesting...

 

[Anvil1984]

Depends on what it is delayed by, sometimes could be a train fault.

As already stated elsewhere in the thread and stated in Modern Railways January 2011, class 220s are more reliable than 91s and HSTs. The couple of minute delays are usually due to missing their path through Bristol / Birmingham / Sheffield / Leeds. due to delays to local services or infrastructure problems, rarely is it the fault of the train and due to the acceration of the unit they are a lot better at making up time if they are held back

 

[SprinterMan]

Isolated effectively. Tilt functions on TMS de-activated, and the tilt mechanism removed and replaced with solid steel bars.

What was the point of doing this when the tilt can be switched off from a switch in the cab? Why go to all the trouble when the tilt can just be left switched off?

 

[MCR247]

It improved the 221 reliability

 

[Pumbaa]

What was the point of doing this when the tilt can be switched off from a switch in the cab? Why go to all the trouble when the tilt can just be left switched off?

If the tilt is just switched off, but still present, it still needs to be in full working order. This is because when the TMS powers up, it will run through TASS and check everything works. As soon as it finds a niggle, it will throw a hissy and not move.

Thus its easier to remove the TASS, turn off the Tilt on TMS (effectively when you call it up, it will beep at you and nothing else happens because the command cancels itself) and replace the equipment thus improving reliability and saving weight (the steel bars are lighter than the equipment they replace).

 

[asylumxl]

Fantastic View
Attentive Service (in First Class)
Reliable
Fast
Lack of Railway Enthusiasts

LOL. Legend

 

[RobShipway]

I have always found XC Voyagers reliable when I have travelled up on a Saturday morning from Reading to Birmingham. The only time, I had an issue is when I catched a Voyager from Reading to Birmingham on a weekday morning, it was cramped even though I was sat at a window seat with a table and I am 5'10 so heaven help 6 foot plus people.

 

[asylumxl]

I find table seats to be false economy, as usually the people across from you also want to stretch their legs. So unless nobody else is sitting there, there's not much point IMO.

 

[387star]

If the tilt is just switched off, but still present, it still needs to be in full working order. This is because when the TMS powers up, it will run through TASS and check everything works. As soon as it finds a niggle, it will throw a hissy and not move.

Thus its easier to remove the TASS, turn off the Tilt on TMS (effectively when you call it up, it will beep at you and nothing else happens because the command cancels itself) and replace the equipment thus improving reliability and saving weight (the steel bars are lighter than the equipment they replace).

TMS= train management system?

TASS= ?