Porterbrook to create Pacer demonstrator (now unveiled)

[61653 HTAFC]

We can certainly expect the ex-FNW ones with the original bench seating to go first. When FNW chose the 5 worst which they expected to withdraw when the Oldham Loop converted to Metrolink, they didn't include any Merseytravel examples. Likewise when Northern chose the 12 worst to put in to 'warm storage' after receiving some cascaded 158s they didn't include any Merseytravel or ATN examples.

However if they did research on here, or even asked regular passengers/"normals" which they'd rather see scrapped, I'd put money on the Miserytravel examples winning (losing?).

 

[northwichcat]

However if they did research on here, or even asked regular passengers/"normals" which they'd rather see scrapped, I'd put money on the Miserytravel examples winning (losing?).

I think the decision was made on which units needed the most work doing to them opposed to which have the least comfortable seats.

 

[asylumxl]

Don't know if these has been posted...

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ls-pacer-dmu-life-extension-demonstrator.html

 

[BurtonM]

Wow hock: I thought that interior picture was a render until I noticed the Anglia DBSO in the background...

 

[yorksrob]

We can certainly expect the ex-FNW ones with the original bench seating to go first. When FNW chose the 5 worst which they expected to withdraw when the Oldham Loop converted to Metrolink, they didn't include any Merseytravel examples. Likewise when Northern chose the 12 worst to put in to 'warm storage' after receiving some cascaded 158s they didn't include any Merseytravel or ATN examples.

They need to buck their ideas up then.

Keeping the Merseyrail abominations over ordinary examples would be a triumph of the fetishisation of gimmickry and modernity over reality.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They need to buck their ideas up then.

Keeping the Merseyrail abominations over ordinary examples would be a triumph of the fetishisation of gimmickry and modernity over reality.

Or simply of selecting the ones in the best mechanical condition, with seating a coincidence. For this reason I recall LM have chosen 319s with 3 different seating layouts.

 

[northwichcat]

They need to buck their ideas up then.

Keeping the Merseyrail abominations over ordinary examples would be a triumph of the fetishisation of gimmickry and modernity over reality.

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not the seats on the Merseytravel ones aren't falling apart as much as the ones on the other ex-FNW ones.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not the seats on the Merseytravel ones aren't falling apart as much as the ones on the other ex-FNW ones.

I'm not sure I agree. When first introduced, the Merseyside units seemed like a big improvement, with seats like those being fitted to new buses at that time rather than from the 1970s. However they haven't aged as well since then, and have very little padding now. Also being individual seats rather than benches they're not so great when the service is busy and have very poor legroom. Of course the mechanical state is more important though. The former Northern Spirit seats were appalling when first fitted but seem to have been reinforced when they were refreshed and don't fall apart quite so easily. I know that any new seats that could be fitted would have to meet current regulations but would it be possible to replace the Merseytravel abominations with the less-crappy seats removed from withdrawn units once the run-down starts? If so, I'd urge Northern/Angel to consider it.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm not sure I agree. When first introduced, the Merseyside units seemed like a big improvement, with seats like those being fitted to new buses at that time rather than from the 1970s. However they haven't aged as well since then, and have very little padding now.

There certainly seems to be more original interior 142s which have had broken irreparable seats removed than Merseytravel ones.

 

[yorksrob]

Or simply of selecting the ones in the best mechanical condition, with seating a coincidence. For this reason I recall LM have chosen 319s with 3 different seating layouts.

In that case, swap the interior round.

I read that when the Hastings thumpers were nearing the end of their service in the 80's, severe corrosion was discovered on a unit which had been recently reupholstered. The interior was then swapped with a less corroded unit which had yet to go through a facelift so that the corroded unit could be condemned.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There certainly seems to be more original interior 142s which have had broken irreparable seats removed than Merseytravel ones.

You're probably right. I was referring to general wear and tear rather than complete destruction though.

 

[yorksrob]

There certainly seems to be more original interior 142s which have had broken irreparable seats removed than Merseytravel ones.

I can't say as I've noticed a great problem with the bus seats. I've certainly not seen any falling to bits. If some are missing, buy an old bus and cannibalise it.

 

[507021]

I can't say as I've noticed a great problem with the bus seats. I've certainly not seen any falling to bits. If some are missing, buy an old bus and cannibalise it.

Neither have I - generally I've found them to be quite comfortable and much better than the awful modular seats in the Merseytravel refurbished Pacers. Whilst it is a good idea the one problem I can see with taking the seats out of an old bus for a Class 142 would be that the bench seats in buses generally only seat two passengers. That's fine if a two seat bench needs replacing but if a three seat bench needs replacing it may be a bit more difficult to find a replacement

Of course a three seater can indeed be replaced by a two seater but it would see a reduction of a single seat. On the other hand however I think it would be better to replace three seats with two rather than none at all

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Neither have I - generally I've found them to be quite comfortable and much better than the awful modular seats in the Merseytravel refurbished Pacers. Whilst it is a good idea the one problem I can see with taking the seats out of an old bus for a Class 142 would be that the bench seats in buses generally only seat two passengers. That's fine if a two seat bench needs replacing but if a three seat bench needs replacing it may be a bit more difficult to find a replacement

Of course a three seater can indeed be replaced by a two seater but it would see a reduction of a single seat. On the other hand however I think it would be better to replace three seats with two rather than none at all

Anyone old enough to remember the 141s will know they were narrower and had bus benches at 2+2 in the inner ends of each car (outer ends were longitudinal). This did give a slightly wider aisle though, and made (noise notwithstanding) the 141s a more pleasant experience than their younger cousins. It's not often you see three adults sharing a seat in either a bus-seated or Merseytravel pacer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone old enough to remember the 141s will know they were narrower and had bus benches at 2+2 in the inner ends of each car (outer ends were longitudinal). This did give a slightly wider aisle though, and made (noise notwithstanding) the 141s a more pleasant experience than their younger cousins. It's not often you see three adults sharing a seat in either a bus-seated or Merseytravel pacer.

Though the bus seats make a nice 2+1, whereas the Merseytravel seats don't make a nice anything, particularly not the window seat where as in just about every badly-designed bus in the UK you're rammed up against the side wall if you are an even vaguely normally proportioned bloke.

 

[asylumxl]

Dear god guys, the demonstrator has been unveiled. Would it be possible to talk about the demonstrator rather than argue about past configurations of the Pacers.

After all, they're keen to get feedback and it will be heading back to Northern in the next few weeks. I'm sure they'd appreciate your feedback on the design they've actually settled on for real.

 

[WillPS]

After all, they're keen to get feedback and it will be heading back to Northern in the next few weeks. I'm sure they'd appreciate your feedback on the design they've actually settled on for real.

 

[devinier]

Dear god guys, the demonstrator has been unveiled. Would it be possible to talk about the demonstrator rather than argue about past configurations of the Pacers.

After all, they're keen to get feedback and it will be heading back to Northern in the next few weeks. I'm sure they'd appreciate your feedback on the design they've actually settled on for real.

It looks good in the photo.....

 

[Techniquest]

So there's no actual confirmation or owt of 144012 returning to service?

The photos I've seen look good, certainly a very, well, different interior compared to that of 144023! Which while I'm on that note, at least it sounded a lot better than the FGW 143s did when I travelled on a couple not long ago. I don't know what they did to the 143s, but they didn't sound like Pacers. Sounded a bit like the 143 was making a bad impression of a 150! If only I had a recording of it, sadly I don't as my phone had died on me by then.

I'd like to see what it's like on a journey soon, especially since 144012 is required!

 

[northwichcat]

So there's no actual confirmation or owt of 144012 returning to service?

Apparently Northern are deciding which diagram to designate the unit to. It's seated capacity is now more similar to that of a 153 than the rest of the 2 car Pacers.

 

[Blindtraveler]

good candidate for the Cumbrian coast then?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

good candidate for the Cumbrian coast then?

There aren't many NL based diagrams for solo dogboxes, I did get one on Huddersfield to Wakefield last week, but even that was a late swap: it arrived into Huddersfield platform six ECS from Leeds with 'Carlisle' still on the blinds. I'd expect it to end up on Huddersfield locals (Wakefield/Leeds/Selby) or on the Knottingley circuit. Do Cumbrian coast crews sign 144s? I know they work to Morecambe but presumably that's with Yorkshire crews?

 

[Haydn1971]

Apparently Northern are deciding which diagram to designate the unit to. It's seated capacity is now more similar to that of a 153 than the rest of the 2 car Pacers.

How about borrowing a 170, adding the 144e and tagging a 142 on the end... Rename it the good, the bad and the ugly

 

[Boothby97]

Could use it on the Barton line, though of course the diagraming sees the 153 that is used swapped everyday
Though the crews involved probably won't already sign 144s as the Barton line is worked by Cleethorpes based TPE crews who are likely to only sign 153s, 170s and 185s.

 

[northwichcat]

Could use it on the Barton line, though of course the diagraming sees the 153 that is used swapped everyday
Though the crews involved probably won't already sign 144s as the Barton line is worked by Cleethorpes based TPE crews who are likely to only sign 153s, 170s and 185s.

I think Northern will probably keep the Barton line as a 153 considering next year the branch will transfer to EMT, with a Northern 153 being earmarked to transfer to EMT.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Could use it on the Barton line, though of course the diagraming sees the 153 that is used swapped everyday
Though the crews involved probably won't already sign 144s as the Barton line is worked by Cleethorpes based TPE crews who are likely to only sign 153s, 170s and 185s.

I thought it was only the first Barton service of the day that was crewed by TPE. Later services being a Northern crew from further afield (Sheffield or Doncaster maybe?)? Sheffield crews will likely sign 144s I'd have thought, but that doesn't solve the issue of the TPE crew at Cleethorpes. Doesn't that service use a 185 anyway though? I know it used to be one...

By the way, will drivers and/or guards who sign 144s need a conversion course (I think that's the term) for the "new" 144?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Would have thought just a bit of input on all the new fancy bits, ramp, bog, PIS etc would be my guess

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Would have thought just a bit of input on all the new fancy bits, ramp, bog, PIS etc would be my guess

You're probably not far off, I'd guess... Just guards then most likely. It was mentioned that nothing "under the bonnet" was being touched...

Unless they've snuck some DOO equipment in there on the sly!

 

[55z]

It is supposed to be diagramed on the Huddersfield to Sheffield - Penistone Line but could be a crush in peak hours.

 

[trentside]

I thought it was only the first Barton service of the day that was crewed by TPE. Later services being a Northern crew from further afield (Sheffield or Doncaster maybe?)? Sheffield crews will likely sign 144s I'd have thought, but that doesn't solve the issue of the TPE crew at Cleethorpes. Doesn't that service use a 185 anyway though? I know it used to be one...

Nope, it's entirely crewed by TPE.

They stopped using the 185 on the first device awhile ago. It now uses the previous day's unit with the swap taking place on its return.