Porterbrook Class 150 gifted to Mid Hants Railway.

[Cesarcollie]

Do we know whether the interior will be returned to 'as built' condition as the modern interior is somewhat incongruous to the livery.

The cynic inside me wonders whether the donation of an otherwise scrap unit by Poterbrook can be seen as a donation to charity, which Porterbrook can then donate from their total profits before income tax, so perhaps not as charitable as it may seem.... However fair play for preserving so many examples of locos, units etc over the years

Maybe so. But Corporation Tax is 25%. So if we take a round number and say the unit is worth £10k, whilst they are ‘saving’ £2.5k in tax, they are losing £7.5k in retained profit.

 

[jamieh27]

Heritage Train ‘first’ For The Watercress Line - Watercress Line

The Watercress Line in Hampshire will be the first heritage railway in the country to take a Class 150 Sprinter train into its running fleet.

watercressline.co.uk

Isn’t it ironic that while GWR struggle to cope with providing enough cl 150 units each day to cover the many, many services that rely on them in Devon and Cornwall, that a (GBR avoiding) wealthy and lucrative rolling stock leasing company’s equally well-fed Directors can gift an otherwise far from life expired unit to a seasonal Heritage Leisure Railway for further use.

There is not a day goes by in Devon and Cornwall that passenger services are not cancelled and/or short formed through Class 150 unit shortages caused by breakdowns, defects and awaiting parts.

A 150 unit broke down today. 150239.

 

[150249]

A 150 unit broke down today. 150239.

It was back on the Falmouth branch within a couple of hours.

 

[778]

A 2+2 interior is far better for a preserved railway than 2+3.

Not necessarily. A lot of the first generation DMUs that are preserved have 2+3 seating.

 

[Amlag]

It was back on the Falmouth branch within a couple of hours.

Yes but after two round trips had to be cancelled thus causing delay and disruption to passengers’ intended journeys and reducing their confidence in rail travel.
Ideally a spare unit needs to be based at Truro or possibly Par to cover mid/west Cornwall failures.

Go to the London area and there are numerous units stabled spare off peak or being carted around all day on over provided services for operational convenience.

 

[northernbelle]

Yes but after two round trips had to be cancelled thus causing delay and disruption to passengers’ intended journeys and reducing their confidence in rail travel.
Ideally a spare unit needs to be based at Truro or possibly Par to cover mid/west Cornwall failures.

Go to the London area and there are numerous units stabled spare off peak or being carted around all day on over provided services for operational convenience.

The 150s are nearly 40 years old - it's not unreasonable to consider them life expired.

The fleet challenges you're talking about will be improved by the arrival of Class 175 units - something which will happen far more quickly than by carrying out an uneconomical C6 programme of repairing and re-leasing TfW 150s.

 

[JKF]

You might have to wait a while for 150001, we need it on the Penistone line for the foreseeable...

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The sole 140 (preserved on paper, but in a state of disrepair) and the 141s (three preserved initially, two of which survive) beat the Sprinters into traffic, but classes 142-144 didn't.

Pacers came out of the railbus development programme, whereas the 150 seemed to me to be a ‘proper DMU’. I think both should be represented in the national collection, though perhaps something like a 142 for the pacers as that would be more typical of what operated and what people will remember, given the prototype was a one-off and not used as a service train.

 

[fgwrich]

A 2+2 interior is far better for a preserved railway than 2+3.

Especially one with tables in as the Wales & West / Wessex* refurbishment provided.

*I’m aware this wasn’t a former W&W unit but the later arrivals were refurbished to match by ATW.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Pacers came out of the railbus development programme, whereas the 150 seemed to me to be a ‘proper DMU’. I think both should be represented in the national collection, though perhaps something like a 142 for the pacers as that would be more typical of what operated and what people will remember, given the prototype was a one-off and not used as a service train.

The class 140 was used in passenger service. It spent some time on the Heart of Wales line, and then on West Yorkshire local services.
The LEVs (Leyland Experimental Vehicles) I'm less sure about although one of them was fitted with Irish gauge wheelsets, painted in a "NIR Railbus" livery and operated on Coleraine to Portrush for a while. Another was sent to the South Eastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority (SEPTA) for use on their Fox Chase line, but after a single test run it was rejected as it was too lightweight to activate the level crossings.

Ideally we'd be able to save at least one example of everything, but there's only a finite amount of space and resources. Pacers are going to be fine, although some of the 142/3/4s which have been saved will probably fall by the wayside in the coming years. In some ways Sprinters are a harder sell for heritage lines, 150s in particular lack the positive features of both 1st-gen units (the forward view) and Pacers (good views out of the window from every seat). Being a static exhibit in York or Shildon is probably a more suitable place, but a single driving car would suffice for that.

 

[danielnez1]

I'm glad to see a Class 150 has been preserved and hopefully a few more will be in due course. I can appreciate people's frustration over the condition and availability of the rest of the fleet, but these trains are well past their intended life span when built, and after what has happened in the past with speculative rebuilds etc., I don’t think any ROSCO could reasonably justify an expensive overall on units with no guaranteed future.

 

[The exile]

Yes but after two round trips had to be cancelled thus causing delay and disruption to passengers’ intended journeys and reducing their confidence in rail travel.
Ideally a spare unit needs to be based at Truro or possibly Par to cover mid/west Cornwall failures.

Go to the London area and there are numerous units stabled spare off peak or being carted around all day on over provided services for operational convenience.

The chances are that one round trip would have had to have been cancelled even if there had been a hot spare at Truro, so we’re talking about 1 round trip lost because of a lack of a spare (which might have to have come from Par anyway, losing that second round trip in the process)

 

[satisnek]

Beats me why a heritage line where the 150s never went near is interested in preserving one.

But I'm one of those who do agree that 150 001 should enter the national collection - but not as a static NRM exhibit. The most obvious host would be the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway (look up 'Wirksworth Phoenix') or failing that, Peak Rail (the Matlock branch being an early 150 route). Alternatively, the Severn Valley Railway, where it was a common sight on the other side of the fence for two decades!

 

[43096]

Beats me why a heritage line where the 150s never went near is interested in preserving one.

But I'm one of those who do agree that 150 001 should enter the national collection - but not as a static NRM exhibit. The most obvious host would be the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway (look up 'Wirksworth Phoenix') or failing that, Peak Rail (the Matlock branch being an early 150 route). Alternatively, the Severn Valley Railway, where it was a common sight on the other side of the fence for two decades!

The problem with 150001 and 150002 is that while they have historical significance, they are distinctly non-standard with the rest of the 150 fleet. Spares acquisition is that bit harder as a result.

 

[The exile]

Beats me why a heritage line where the 150s never went near is interested in preserving one.

Gift horses and all that…

 

[jamieh27]

It was back on the Falmouth branch within a couple of hours.

It was shunted onto the sidings where failed trains go, amazing it was fixed that quickly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2025 ==

The 150s are nearly 40 years old - it's not unreasonable to consider them life expired.

The fleet challenges you're talking about will be improved by the arrival of Class 175 units - something which will happen far more quickly than by carrying out an uneconomical C6 programme of repairing and re-leasing TfW 150s.

150/0 were built in 1984.
150/1 were built in 1985/86.
150/2 were built in 1987.

About a third of the units are 40+ years old. Amazes me that the prototype ones are still going strong.

 

[The exile]

It was shunted onto the sidings where failed trains go, amazing it was fixed that quickly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2025 ==


150/0 were built in 1984.
150/1 were built in 1985/86.
150/2 were built in 1987.

About a third of the units are 40+ years old. Amazes me that the prototype ones are still going strong.

And looking less outdated than their first generation predecessors, none of which (?) made it to 40 in squadron service. IIRC, no 150/1s have yet been withdrawn (nor of course either of the /0s on a permanent basis)
Before anyone says anything - yes, I know 1 or 2 bubble cars kept going week past 40, but it was 1 or 2 on very limited diagrams.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Beats me why a heritage line where the 150s never went near is interested in preserving one.

But I'm one of those who do agree that 150 001 should enter the national collection - but not as a static NRM exhibit. The most obvious host would be the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway (look up 'Wirksworth Phoenix') or failing that, Peak Rail (the Matlock branch being an early 150 route). Alternatively, the Severn Valley Railway, where it was a common sight on the other side of the fence for two decades!

My point about it being better suited to static exhibition was because they aren't exactly "passenger-friendly". On the thread about preserved railways promoting diesel traction, a few members with experience at heritage lines have said that 1950s DMUs can be quite appealing to non-enthusiast passengers- largely because of the forwards view they permit. 150s don't have this, and there are very few seats on a unit that offer a decent window view either.
I will certainly concede that if the NRM was picking a vehicle to display at York or Shildon, using one from the prototypes would be a waste because you wouldn't be putting all 3 cars in there anyway. As I stated above, a single car is all that would be needed- preferably with the interior restored to "as built" condition and accessible to the public.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2025 ==

And looking less outdated than their first generation predecessors, none of which (?) made it to 40 in squadron service. IIRC, no 150/1s have yet been withdrawn (nor of course either of the /0s on a permanent basis)
Before anyone says anything - yes, I know 1 or 2 bubble cars kept going week past 40, but it was 1 or 2 on very limited diagrams.

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know) the oldest Class 101 vehicle was withdrawn at 47 years old.

 

[Invincible]

My point about it being better suited to static exhibition was because they aren't exactly "passenger-friendly".

From the press release

The unit will now plug a vital gap in the Watercress Line service, offering an earlier departure from Alton than the current 11.50 steam service.

So the MHR must have used this for their "pitch" to Porterbrook?
Eventually the Class 205 DMU will taker over service and the class 150 will be backup for the class 205, and available for galas at other railways.

 

[Mike Machin]

Beats me why a heritage line where the 150s never went near is interested in preserving one.

But I'm one of those who do agree that 150 001 should enter the national collection - but not as a static NRM exhibit. The most obvious host would be the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway (look up 'Wirksworth Phoenix') or failing that, Peak Rail (the Matlock branch being an early 150 route). Alternatively, the Severn Valley Railway, where it was a common sight on the other side of the fence for two decades!

It's a useful addition to the Watercress Line's assets, particularly for use on quiet days where it will enable the economic provision of a two train service working together with steam traction.

It's true that 150s have never worked on the the Mid Hants, but 150s in general (not sure which variants) have worked in Hampshire over the years. At one time they worked fairly regularly between Bristol and Southampton and on occasions they have made it all the way down to Fareham and Portsmouth. They also regularly worked into the county to nearby Basingstoke on services from Reading. The Watercress Line is also a major centre for preserving the history of the former L&SWR and its successors, and the Class 150 has been a staple part of daily operation on several former sections of the L&SWR for the past few decades, so for this reason alone, it is a valuable piece in the jigsaw of the South Western's continuing history.

One could say that its definitely more appropriate in the former L&SWR environment of the line than the forthcoming visit of the LNER A4 will be in October!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

From the press release

So the MHR must have used this for their "pitch" to Porterbrook?
Eventually the Class 205 DMU will taker over service and the class 150 will be backup for the class 205, and available for galas at other railways.

I'm not denying that it can have a role, just that if a railway had the pick of 1980s units a 150 wouldn't necessarily be the best choice. However in the real world that haven't "had the pick" of whichever unit they want- I've no idea if they approached Porterbrook or if Porterbrook approached the railway, but it's great to see the oft-maligned rolling stock companies working with preservationists like this. It's easy to grumble about 150s and wonder where the appeal is while they're still in widespread use around the country- but give it ten years and hopefully preserved ones will be the only ones left!
Apologies if my posts are coming across as "moans" as that isn't my intention. The aspiration of starting their operations earlier in the day should absolutely be applauded.

 

[D365]

I feel that the WSP / sander capability of the Class 150 will come into its own during leaf fall season.

 

[The exile]

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know) the oldest Class 101 vehicle was withdrawn at 47 years old.

Hence “squadron service” (though 191s were obviously about 5 years older than I realised). I suppose the point is that the contrast between the interior of a spruced up 150 and a 196/7 is nowhere near as great as between that 150 and the 1st gen units they replaced. (yes - I know they also replaced decent length loco hauled services with sardine cans as well - but that is hardly a fault with the unit)

 

[StephenHunter]

When did the MHR become the Watercress Line?

 

[satisnek]

It's true that 150s have never worked on the the Mid Hants, but 150s in general (not sure which variants) have worked in Hampshire over the years. At one time they worked fairly regularly between Bristol and Southampton and on occasions they have made it all the way down to Fareham and Portsmouth. They also regularly worked into the county to nearby Basingstoke on services from Reading. The Watercress Line is also a major centre for preserving the history of the former L&SWR and its successors, and the Class 150 has been a staple part of daily operation on several former sections of the L&SWR for the past few decades, so for this reason alone, it is a valuable piece in the jigsaw of the South Western's continuing history.

That's interesting - I knew that they worked to Basingstoke but that's a long way from the Mid Hants by rail - has been since the 1930s!

Thinking about it, the Mid Hants is actually quite appropriate for a 150 because they did prove to be good hill climbers (certainly when compared to a 170!) during their time serving Worcestershire.

 

[Forty29]

Named approiatly because Watercress growers used the line to transport their produce on its start of the journey to mainly London, though probably countrywide. There are a large number of Watercress beds still in use thanks to the high quality of the water of chalk stream's.

 

[childwallblues]

150231 was the last TfW Class 150 that I rode on 5th March 2024 from Chester to Rhyl vice a 197. At the time I thought that it was much more comfortable than a 197 and it was a very smooth ride at speed.
Best wishes to the MHR on their fantastic donation.

 

[jamieh27]

150231 was the last TfW Class 150 that I rode on 5th March 2024 from Chester to Rhyl vice a 197. At the time I thought that it was much more comfortable than a 197 and it was a very smooth ride at speed.
Best wishes to the MHR on their fantastic donation.

Lets hope more 150s in the future get preserved would love to see South Devon Railway get one or two and maybe Llanelli Heritage Railway, Swanage Railway as well as Crewe Heritage.

 

[Invincible]

Lets hope more 150s in the future get preserved would love to see South Devon Railway get one or two and maybe Llanelli Heritage Railway, Swanage Railway as well as Crewe Heritage.

There will be a lot of MK3 based trains going out of service.
The diesel 150 is easier to preserve than the electric trains.
No one wanted the 442 so just a driving car was preserved as part of a preserve red HST unit, although some are at Eastleigh waiting scrapping.
Even with the 150s does mean a railway has to have secure sidings and a plan so they don't deteriorate though low or none use.
The Bluebell railway has a Thumper and a 4 Vep, the Swanage railway has the 117, the 121 plus the 4TC it is struggling to get operational again, so these will not be able to look after an extra 150.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There will be a lot of MK3 based trains going out of service.
The diesel 150 is easier to preserve than the electric trains.
No one wanted the 442 so just a driving car was preserved as part of a preserve red HST unit, although some are at Eastleigh waiting scrapping.
Even with the 150s does mean a railway has to have secure sidings and a plan so they don't deteriorate though low or none use.
The Bluebell railway has a Thumper and a 4 Vep, the Swanage railway has the 117, the 121 plus the 4TC it is struggling to get operational again, so these will not be able to look after an extra 150.

I'd have thought a 156 would be more desirable once they become available, as the interior layout is a bit more "tourist friendly". Though being 23m vehicles could pose an issue for some lines. Then again based on what we've heard about some of both classes as they go through C6/life extension work for Northern, perhaps heritage lines would do well to steer clear! 158s being aluminium won't have rotted away to the same extent, but are probably still viewed as being "too modern".

 

[m79900]

Beats me why a heritage line where the 150s never went near is interested in preserving one.

But I'm one of those who do agree that 150 001 should enter the national collection - but not as a static NRM exhibit. The most obvious host would be the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway (look up 'Wirksworth Phoenix') or failing that, Peak Rail (the Matlock branch being an early 150 route). Alternatively, the Severn Valley Railway, where it was a common sight on the other side of the fence for two decades!

Good look with the EVR, they’ve completely kicked DMUs to the wayside for in favour of (industrial) steam hauled, coach trip fed services as they’re apparently what people want. I’d beg to differ but there you go, and that’s first gen’s so there’d likely be no chance of a Sprinter.