Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[Richard Scott]

I shall be having lunch with one of the EE/GEC/Alstom motor designers on Thursday, I'll ask him!

That sounds interesting, will await the outcome!!!

 

[david l]

5 out today, 769434/48/50/56/58. 1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering off NH.

 

[diligentdave]

That sounds interesting, will await the outcome!!!

The motors on the 769's are the GEC G315BZ type (2000/D19517) not the EE507's. They flash over quite a bit, there's also been issues (at the start) with out of parity comms, these often used to require skimming.

 

[Richard Scott]

The motors on the 769's are the GEC G315BZ type (2000/D19517) not the EE507's. They flash over quite a bit, there's also been issues (at the start) with out of parity comms, these often used to require skimming.

I knew they were GEC, hence comment about possible problem was because they weren't EE!! EE507s were only about 250hp, I think, so would have been underpowered by 1980s standards?
Thanks for info.

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure whether this is normal but there were 2 769s at Newton Heath tonight stabled next to each other when I was on my way home from work at about 19:30

 

[david l]

Not to sure whether this is normal but there were 2 769s at Newton Heath tonight stabled next to each other when I was on my way home from work at about 19:30

Wed 18/2
769424 finished at NH on Tues 17/2 but didn't come out to play today, 769431 failed on Mon 16/2 at Stalybridge so presume these are the 2. 769448 should finish there tonight as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2026 ==


Thurs 19/2
3 out today. 434/48/50. Nothing started from AN with 1 x 2 car 150 DMU & 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, with 1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering from SP.
Of the others 442 at Brodies, 424/31 noted at NH yesterday, 456 should have finished at AN last night, whilst 458 should have finished at SP but there have been unreported swaps before.
Later:- number of swaps later today so 5 out of the 769 diagrams will finish up at 'wrong' depots tonight.

Fri 20/2

5 started the day 434/48/50/56/58. However 434 before breakfast time was on the naughty step and is currently showing as FAIL at Southport. 1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering the 6th diagram from AN, but 434's services appear currently to being covered by 'stepping up' at Southport.
Later:- 434 appears to have come out to play again mid-afternoon. This is not the first time that this has happened, there are no 'fitters' at Southport so is this a case of someone in a van (or even on a train!) sent from AN or something else?? Diagrams not being followed later again, 434/48 to SP not AN, 456/58 to AN not SP, 450 to SP as diagrammed, 156409/21 split will finish at either Man Vic or Blackburn not NH.

 

[Gricer99]

A pic of a 769 (424 or 431?) at Pltform 1 Lime Street was posted on Facebook at 3pm today

 

[david l]

A pic of a 769 (424 or 431?) at Pltform 1 Lime Street was posted on Facebook at 3pm today

Was a 5Z85 14.00 NH-AN today.

Sat 20/2
4 out today 434/48/50/58. 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off NH, 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN.
Of the others, either 424 or 431 worked ECS NH-AN yesterday, with the other one still at NH. 442 is at Brodies, 456 was swapped last night to finish up at AN.
Todays allocations also indicate a swap of diagrams, with 448 now booked to SP, and 450 to AN. (434/458 booked to SP as per diagrams)

Mon 23/2
Good news. 6 start the day 424/31/34/48/50/58.
Bad news. No trains as yet between Wigan and Southport due to signalling/power failure. Been ongoing since yesterday but only affected a few trains yesterday due to the continuing lack of a 7 day railway on the west side.

Tues 24/2
5 out today 424/31/48/50/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP.

Wed 25/2
4 out today 424/31/50/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off NH.

Thurs 26/2
5 out today 424/31/34/48/50.1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off NH.

Fri 27/2
4 out today.424/31/34/58. 1 x2 car 150 DMU & 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, both off AN.

Sat 28/2
4 out today, 424/31/48/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off NH (3rd time this week), 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP - booked to Man Vic tonight.
442 at Brodies, 450 last noted at NH 26/2, 456 missing since 20/2, 458 to AN 27/2.

 

[david l]

Mon 2/3
5 start the week, 424/31/34/48/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off AN.

Tues 3/3
4 start the day, 424/34/48/58. 1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering off SP, whilst the 2nd AN 769 diagram has been covered by 1 x 2 car 156 DMU, sent from SP ECS to Man Vic to start the day on 2W02 Man Vic-Southport.

Wed 4/3
4 start the day, 424/31/48/58. 1 x 4 car 156 DMU and 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, both off SP.

Thurs 5/3
5 start the day 424/31/34/48/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off Wigan Wallgate, presume by splitting another diagram.

Fri 6/3
5 started the day 424/34/48/50/58. 1 x 4car 150/156 DMU off SP covering.
However 769450 failed at Parbold on 2W69 8.30 Southport-Stalybridge and retired to SP. After a couple of services were cancelled the diagram has been covered by 150146 which has been split from 156425 which were the 150/156 combination originally covering the 6th diagram. 769448 also retired hurt early and retired to SP.

Sat 7/3
5 have appeared to start the day but yet another signalling/power failure (3rd in the last 8 days) causing massive disruption between Wigan and Southport has somewhat clouded matters.
424/31/34/50/58 were the starters, with 150122 appearing eventually to be the covering 2 ar DMU off SP.
Of the others, 442 at Brodies, 448 finished at AN 6/3, whilst 456 has been missing since 20/2 when it went to/finished at AN as opposed to its diagrammed SP.

 

[david l]

Mon 9/3
4 start the week, 424/34/50/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off Wigan Wallgate (SP diagram)

 

[physics34]

Mon 9/3
4 start the week, 424/34/50/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off Wigan Wallgate (SP diagram)

Thanks for the info. Currently on 769450... just left Man Vic.

 

[td97]

Wasn't reported last week on 05/03 - shortformed 2W44 0725 Southport to Stalybridge had all stops between Bolton and Salford Central (exclusive) omitted due to overcrowding at Bolton.

Realtime Trains | 2W44 0725 Southport to Stalybridge | 05/03/2026

Real-time train running information for 2W44 0725 departure from Southport to Stalybridge on 05/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The following 2J24 0818 Blackburn to Rochdale picked up the local stations, losing 12 minutes of time.

Realtime Trains | 2J24 0818 Blackburn to Rochdale | 05/03/2026

Real-time train running information for 2J24 0818 departure from Blackburn to Rochdale on 05/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[physics34]

Thanks for the info. Currently on 769450... just left Man Vic.

We got diverted via Swinton.

 

[david l]

Tues 10/3
4 start the day, 424/34/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
Later today, demics 431 & 448 are booked on 5Y63 Wigan NW-AN, whilst 458 instead of going to AN on that diagram is shown as finishing at Wigan NW so either will go to SP, or is it taking the 2 demics to AN? or can the 2 demics go under their own power?
456 missing since 20/2, 442 at Brodies since 5/2.

 

[AMD]

Looks like 424 had a little bit of bother changing over at Ince this evening - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L06559/2026-03-10/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[david l]

Wed 11/3

5 start the day 424/31/34/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN.
Interesting that (out of traffic since Sat last at SP) 431 is in traffic, having arrived at AN last night at 23.00 and out at 04.44 this morning. Miracles...

 

[jfollows]

There have been many problems with the ageing doors and the raising and lowering of the pantographs to my knowledge.

The only failure I’ve ever had on a local service was a similar vintage 319 door failure, although it was eventually isolated and able to continue. I just sense that the units are now clapped out, regardless of what titivation might have been performed on them.

 

[david l]

Thurs 12/3
4 start the day, 431/48/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car DMU covering off AN.
Note that both 'demics' 431/48 sent from SP to AN on 10/3 are back in traffic, 431 the day after! Just shows that somewhat minor faults, together with units that can't couple to anything else, and have the one 'maintenance' depot that is miles away from their operating area....doesn't work. 448 had been out of traffic for 5 days at SP waiting a move back to AN, whilst 431 was just the 3 days.
Was on the 22.27 Ox Road-Wigan NW last night, booked for a 769, had a single 150. Cosy..., also on it on Thurs, again a 2 car DMU, even more cosy with several cancellations/delays out of Man Vic.

Fri 13/3
5 start the day, 431/34/48/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
Note 456 out today, first time since 20/2, whilst there was shuffling around last night of the units, with 431 finishing at SP (should be AN), whilst 450 went to AN (instead of SP) and 1 of the covering DMU's went to SP not AN.
442 at Brodies, 424/50 both at AN.

Sat 14/3
Good news. For the 1st time since 23/2, 6 start the day. 431/34/48/50/56/58.
Bad news. 456 (second day out since 20/2) has earlier pulled up lame, looks like changeover difficulties at Ince from electric to diesel, made it to Southport but appears to have been replaced by a 2 car 150 DMU (131), itself split from a Headbolt Lane-Blackburn.
431's diagram now booked to SP not AN tonight, so presume 456 will be 'dragged to AN later- again! No, it went to SP with 458's diagram amended to go to AN. 456 fixed at SP for next week?

Mon 16/3
Good news. For the 2nd time since 23/2, 6 start the day 431/34/48/50/56/58.
Bad news. 431 pulled up lame at breakfast time, and has been replaced by a 1 x 2 car DMU, itself found by splitting a Blackburn-Headbolt Lane diagram.

Tues 17/3
5 start the day. 424/34/48/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP (same one that covered 431 yesterday after its failure).
431 ??, 456 AN, 442 Brodies.

 

[60159]

Thurs 12/3
4 start the day, 431/48/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car DMU covering off AN.
Note that both 'demics' 431/48 sent from SP to AN on 10/3 are back in traffic, 431 the day after! Just shows that somewhat minor faults, together with units that can't couple to anything else, and have the one 'maintenance' depot that is miles away from their operating area....doesn't work. 448 had been out of traffic for 5 days at SP waiting a move back to AN, whilst 431 was just the 3 days.
Was on the 22.27 Ox Road-Wigan NW last night, booked for a 769, had a single 150. Cosy..., also on it on Thurs, again a 2 car DMU, even more cosy with several cancellations/delays out of Man Vic.

Fri 13/3
5 start the day, 431/34/48/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
Note 456 out today, first time since 20/2, whilst there was shuffling around last night of the units, with 431 finishing at SP (should be AN), whilst 450 went to AN (instead of SP) and 1 of the covering DMU's went to SP not AN.
442 at Brodies, 424/50 both at AN.

Sat 14/3
Good news. For the 1st time since 23/2, 6 start the day. 431/34/48/50/56/58.
Bad news. 456 (second day out since 20/2) has earlier pulled up lame, looks like changeover difficulties at Ince from electric to diesel, made it to Southport but appears to have been replaced by a 2 car 150 DMU (131), itself split from a Headbolt Lane-Blackburn.
431's diagram now booked to SP not AN tonight, so presume 456 will be 'dragged to AN later- again! No, it went to SP with 458's diagram amended to go to AN. 456 fixed at SP for next week?

Mon 15/3
Good news. For the 2nd time since 23/2, 6 start the day 431/34/48/50/56/58.
Bad news. 431 pulled up lame at breakfast time, and has been replaced by a 1 x 2 car DMU, itself found by splitting a Blackburn-Headbolt Lane diagram.

Tues 16/3
5 start the day. 424/34/48/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP (same one that covered 431 yesterday after its failure).
431 ??, 456 AN, 442 Brodies.

Any idea where 424 is please and if at SpringsBranch is it the only one there?

 

[david l]

Any idea where 424 is please and if at SpringsBranch is it the only one there?

Wed 17/3

5 start the day, 434/48/50/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off Wigan Wallgate (not SP)

424 last in use on 11/3, diagram finished at AN. Not been noted since. 431 failed in traffic 16/3- unaware of whereabouts. 442 at Brodies since 5/2. (3rd attempt!)

 

[60159]

Wed 17/3

5 start the day, 434/48/50/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off Wigan Wallgate (not SP)

424 last in use on 11/3, diagram finished at AN. Not been noted since. 431 failed in traffic 16/3- unaware of whereabouts. 442 at Brodies since 5/2. (3rd attempt!)

Many thanks. Very helpful tho’post 7818 suggests it was out on Tue 17/3.

 

[david l]

Many thanks. Very helpful tho’post 7818 suggests it was out on Tue 17/3.

Sorry, it was. Got dates wrong. Will be going to SP later and will revert! (Have amended original post 7818).

At 14.30 Wed 18/3
769424/31/58 are all at SP. 424 & 431 are on the line nearest to the WCML, but 431is at the back, with 458 alongside 424.
Appears that 458 worked 2W06 8.27 Man Ox Rd-Southport, got there early but return working to Stalybridge cancelled and has gone as 5W50 to SP. Replacement is a 2 car 150 DMU (124) purloined by splitting a Clitheroe-Rochdale at Man Vic.
So 4 now in service, with a 4 car 150 DMU covering and a 2 car 150 covering.
Will be interesting later, as if units finish up where they are currently diagrammed, there will be 5 on SP, 1 at NH, 1 at AN and 442 at Brodies. Suggest that there will be some more swapping around later. Indeed there has been a 5Z85 17.58 SP-AN tonight,appears to have been 458.

Thurs 19/3

6 start the day!!
424/34/48/50/56/58. 424, having had a rest at SP yesterday starts from SP, whilst 458 having failed yesterday, went to AN last night and is out again today. Rumours persist that 'some' staff seem to fail them for rather minor reasons.........
Presume 431 still at SP (unless it went to AN with 458 last night) whilst 442 still at Brodies.
Hmmmm. Later 424 has given up the ghost at Salford Crescent on a Man.Ox Rd-Southport. After a number of cancellations NH has despatched 150131 to take over the diagram on a Southport-Stalybridge (starting at Wigan Wallgate).
Fourth failure this week so far, consistently one a day.

 

[60159]

Sorry, it was. Got dates wrong. Will be going to SP later and will revert! (Have amended original post 7818).

At 14.30 Wed 18/3
769424/31/58 are all at SP. 424 & 431 are on the line nearest to the WCML, but 431is at the back, with 458 alongside 424.
Appears that 458 worked 2W06 8.27 Man Ox Rd-Southport, got there early but return working to Stalybridge cancelled and has gone as 5W50 to SP. Replacement is a 2 car 150 DMU (124) purloined by splitting a Clitheroe-Rochdale at Man Vic.
So 4 now in service, with a 4 car 150 DMU covering and a 2 car 150 covering.
Will be interesting later, as if units finish up where they are currently diagrammed, there will be 5 on SP, 1 at NH, 1 at AN and 442 at Brodies. Suggest that there will be some more swapping around later. Indeed there has been a 5Z85 17.58 SP-AN tonight,appears to have been 458.

Thurs 19/3

6 start the day!!
424/34/48/50/56/58. 424, having had a rest at SP yesterday starts from SP, whilst 458 having failed yesterday, went to AN last night and is out again today. Rumours persist that 'some' staff seem to fail them for rather minor reasons.........
Presume 431 still at SP (unless it went to AN with 458 last night) whilst 442 still at Brodies.
Hmmmm. Later 424 has given up the ghost at Salford Crescent on a Man.Ox Rd-Southport. After a number of cancellations NH has despatched 150131 to take over the diagram on a Southport-Stalybridge (starting at Wigan Wallgate).
Fourth failure this week so far, consistently one a day.

Many thanks. I only saw 1 in the morning so can’t take 424.

 

[david l]

Fri 20/3
5 start the day 431/34/48/50/58 with 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
However 431 has already failed at Southport (08.30) but was fit enough to run to SP. 431 hasn't had a good week, second in service failure but yet managed to get from SP to AN yesterday. This is the fifth failure of a 769 in service this week, consistently 1 a day but its early yet! No replacement for 431 other than a Southport-Stalybridge cancellation and the return service starting from Man. Vic, covered by 150121 acquired from NH.
448 has also failed, the 6th failure this week and retired hurt this morning with 156404 appearing to have picked up its service at Southport.
To summarise 5 start, 2 down, 3 left.

Sat 21/3
3 start the day, 434/56/58. 2 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, also off SP.
424 missing since failing on 19/3, 431 missing since failing on 20/3, 448 missing since failing 20/3, 450 at AN, 442 at Brodies.
434 has today failed, with no replacement available (from 10 ish this morning). Rest of diagram cancelled.
Absolutely appalling.

Mon 24/3
4 started the day 448/50/56/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU & 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, both off SP.

Tues 25/3
4 started the day. 424/48/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN.

Wed 26/3
Wires down between Bolton and Lostock has caused problems, however it appears that most Stalybridge/Ox Road-Southports are running via the Atherton line (on diesel).
6 have actually started the day, but 5 on their diagrams 424/31/34/50/58 with 1 x 2 car DMU covering off SP but in addition 448 has worked 2C00 05.35 Wigan NW-Liverpool L St, thn retiring to AN. May be wrong but I think that this is the first working of a 769 on these services (319's did, of course for a number of years)

Thurs 27/3
Probably as a result of yesterdays wires problems, some sets have started off from unusual 769 stabling locations.
4 started the day, 431/34/50/58 with no 769's starting from AN, being covered by 2 x 2 car 156 DMU's.
458 failed at Wigan W mid-afternoon, replaced by a 2 car 150 (125) found at Wigan Wallgate.

Fri 28/3
5 start the day 424/31/34/50/56. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP.

Sat 29/3
Amended diagrams as nothing to Stalybridge today, only 3 out 424/50/56. Nothing off NH with 1 x 2 car 156 DMU off AN, and 1 x 4 car 150/156 off SP covering.

 

[david l]

Mon 30/3
4 start the week, 434/48/50/56. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP, but the other diagram that should start at AN is today covered by a 2 car 156 DMU, starting from Longsight Excursion Platform.
434 pulled up lame around mid-morning. Eventually replaced by 150108 (split from a 4 car Southport diagram)

 

[504]

Fri 20/3
5 start the day 431/34/48/50/58 with 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
However 431 has already failed at Southport (08.30) but was fit enough to run to SP. 431 hasn't had a good week, second in service failure but yet managed to get from SP to AN yesterday. This is the fifth failure of a 769 in service this week, consistently 1 a day but its early yet! No replacement for 431 other than a Southport-Stalybridge cancellation and the return service starting from Man. Vic, covered by 150121 acquired from NH.
448 has also failed, the 6th failure this week and retired hurt this morning with 156404 appearing to have picked up its service at Southport.
To summarise 5 start, 2 down, 3 left.

Sat 21/3
3 start the day, 434/56/58. 2 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, also off SP.
424 missing since failing on 19/3, 431 missing since failing on 20/3, 448 missing since failing 20/3, 450 at AN, 442 at Brodies.
434 has today failed, with no replacement available (from 10 ish this morning). Rest of diagram cancelled.
Absolutely appalling.

Mon 24/3
4 started the day 448/50/56/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU & 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, both off SP.

Tues 25/3
4 started the day. 424/48/50/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN.

Wed 26/3
Wires down between Bolton and Lostock has caused problems, however it appears that most Stalybridge/Ox Road-Southports are running via the Atherton line (on diesel).
6 have actually started the day, but 5 on their diagrams 424/31/34/50/58 with 1 x 2 car DMU covering off SP but in addition 448 has worked 2C00 05.35 Wigan NW-Liverpool L St, thn retiring to AN. May be wrong but I think that this is the first working of a 769 on these services (319's did, of course for a number of years)

Thurs 27/3
Probably as a result of yesterdays wires problems, some sets have started off from unusual 769 stabling locations.
4 started the day, 431/34/50/58 with no 769's starting from AN, being covered by 2 x 2 car 156 DMU's.
458 failed at Wigan W mid-afternoon, replaced by a 2 car 150 (125) found at Wigan Wallgate.

Fri 28/3
5 start the day 424/31/34/50/56. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP.

Sat 29/3
Amended diagrams as nothing to Stalybridge today, only 3 out 424/50/56. Nothing off NH with 1 x 2 car 156 DMU off AN, and 1 x 4 car 150/156 off SP covering.

458 failed at Stalybridge on the 27th 5w21 to Wigan then replaced with 150104. Failed with wsp fault.

 

[nightflyian]

Thanks for everyones updates, all of interest. Can anyone explain what the a wsp fault is ?

 

[jfollows]

Thanks for everyones updates, all of interest. Can anyone explain what the a wsp fault is ?

I guess that it’s wheelslip protection.

 

[david l]

Tues 31/3
4 start the day, 424/48/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off NH.
431/50 last noted at AN, 434??, 442 at Brodies (since 5/2, must nearly be due back but 448/50 still to go)

Wed 1/4
5 start theday 424/34/48/50/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP

Thurs 2/4
6 start the day (first time since 19/3 that 6 have started the day, but 23/2 since all 6 have finished the day........there's plenty time yet).
424/34/48/50/56/58 out, 431 missing since 27/3 (at AN ??), 442 at Brodies.

Fri 3/4
6 again start the day 424/31/34/48/50/56. Not since early Feb that 6 have started the day two days running.

Sat 4/4
5 start the day 424/34/48/50/56, 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP.

Mon 6/4, Tues 7/4, Wed 8/4, Thurs 9/4
6 start the day 424/31/34/48/56/58.
450 AN, 442 Brodies.

Fri 9/4
5 start the day 424/31/34/48/56.. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN

 

[FrontSideBus]

450 being dragged off to Scotland