Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[edwin_m]

I don't know whether it's just spin but platform lengthening isn't needed at Ince, Hindley or Westhoughton. What is needed is removal of all the undergrowth/grass/weeds/trees or general debris that is on the existing platforms beyond that which is in use (and extension of lighting).
Indeed, the shortest platform may well be Wigan North Western No.1 after all this (assuming that Wallgate isn't wired), as No. 3 at North Western can't be lengthened (again) and No. 2 is fenced off/no points. Might need something else for contingency if so many 'Lanky' trains get sent into North Western which leaves nothing spare at North Western if any WCML problems........bring back the old loop platforms 9 & 10!

It's typically described as platform lengthening whether it's what you describe or building a new section. By the time it's been brought up to standard I suspect the costs come out very similar, unless the disused part is in near-useable condition.

 

[AM9]

Southport services will likely be operated as extensions of the DMU services to Wigan via the Atherton line, as they were prior to the 2019 timetable change. These services are from Leeds via the Calder Valley and from Blackburn via Burnley and Todmorden. 769s would be unsuitable for these long, hilly, unelectrified routes and in any case the cost of additional driver traction training for such a small fleet would be prohibitive.

They are already trained on the 769s (both driving and identifying some failures ), so the small fleet will continue until there is budget to replace them with other trains that don't burn diesel when under wires. The electrification of the line to Bolton and the availability of bi-modes (769s) changes everything from the 2019 situation.

 

[Greybeard33]

They are already trained on the 769s (both driving and identifying some failures ), so the small fleet will continue until there is budget to replace them with other trains that don't burn diesel when under wires. The electrification of the line to Bolton and the availability of bi-modes (769s) changes everything from the 2019 situation.

The DfT is not spending £78m on electrification and platform lengthening just to enable the 769s (which cannot operate in 6-car formations, so will be unable to make use of the platform extensions) to burn a few litres less diesel fuel on each working. £78m buys a lot of diesel!

Once the wires are up in 2024, I will be very surprised if the 769s continue to work Wigan/Southport services. Wigan - Bolton - Manchester - beyond will be 6-car EMUs and Southport - Wigan - Atherton - Manchester - beyond will be DMUs. And I am doubtful that Northern will redeploy the 769s to routes elsewhere on the Northern network, where they would be further from their Allerton maintenance base and would need to be worked by crews from different traincrew depots than those who currently sign them.

The 769 conversion programme was originally funded as a direct consequence of the postponement of the electrification of the Lostock - Wigan and Victoria - Stalybridge lines, originally promised for December 2017. Once those lines are finally wired, the Northern 769 fleet will have lost its raison d'etre.

 

[43096]

The DfT is not spending £78m on electrification and platform lengthening just to enable the 769s (which cannot operate in 6-car formations, so will be unable to make use of the platform extensions) to burn a few litres less diesel fuel on each working. £78m buys a lot of diesel!

Once the wires are up in 2024, I will be very surprised if the 769s continue to work Wigan/Southport services. Wigan - Bolton - Manchester - beyond will be 6-car EMUs and Southport - Wigan - Atherton - Manchester - beyond will be DMUs. And I am doubtful that Northern will redeploy the 769s to routes elsewhere on the Northern network, where they would be further from their Allerton maintenance base and would need to be worked by crews from different traincrew depots than those who currently sign them.

The 769 conversion programme was originally funded as a direct consequence of the postponement of the electrification of the Lostock - Wigan and Victoria - Stalybridge lines, originally promised for December 2017. Once those lines are finally wired, the Northern 769 fleet will have lost its raison d'etre.

I wouldn't be surprised if a deal has been done that sees the 769s swapped for the remaining unaccounted-for 323s from West Mids. Porterbrook own both fleets.

 

[plugwash]

OTOH given the rising prominence of green issues in politics I can't see it looking good politically to get rid of bi-modes with clean burning diesel engines while keeping dirty old DMUs.

 

[Killingworth]

OTOH given the rising prominence of green issues in politics I can't see it looking good politically to get rid of bi-modes with clean burning diesel engines while keeping dirty old DMUs.

Hopefully the bi-mode idea has become accepted and any new trains will be ordered as such when the 15x fleets are stood down. The 769s will go the same way as all older stock, but as a small class probably among the first to go, quietly left unused having proved the concept, but not the conversion.

 

[D9006]

I don't know whether it's just spin but platform lengthening isn't needed at Ince, Hindley or Westhoughton. What is needed is removal of all the undergrowth/grass/weeds/trees or general debris that is on the existing platforms beyond that which is in use (and extension of lighting).
Indeed, the shortest platform may well be Wigan North Western No.1 after all this (assuming that Wallgate isn't wired), as No. 3 at North Western can't be lengthened (again) and No. 2 is fenced off/no points. Might need something else for contingency if so many 'Lanky' trains get sent into North Western which leaves nothing spare at North Western if any WCML problems........bring back the old loop platforms 9 & 10!

Yes Hindley and ince with aid of a strimmer and a good lawn mower most likely could take 8 carriages

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2021 ==

Not 6/6! One failed at Wigan so one of my potential trains home is yet again 2-car

All I could find was one cancelled wigan Southport return due to train crew and another cancelled from Southport this evening due to a brake issue, brakes coming up few times now

 

[S&CLER]

The DfT is not spending £78m on electrification and platform lengthening just to enable the 769s (which cannot operate in 6-car formations, so will be unable to make use of the platform extensions) to burn a few litres less diesel fuel on each working. £78m buys a lot of diesel!

Once the wires are up in 2024, I will be very surprised if the 769s continue to work Wigan/Southport services. Wigan - Bolton - Manchester - beyond will be 6-car EMUs and Southport - Wigan - Atherton - Manchester - beyond will be DMUs. And I am doubtful that Northern will redeploy the 769s to routes elsewhere on the Northern network, where they would be further from their Allerton maintenance base and would need to be worked by crews from different traincrew depots than those who currently sign them.

The 769 conversion programme was originally funded as a direct consequence of the postponement of the electrification of the Lostock - Wigan and Victoria - Stalybridge lines, originally promised for December 2017. Once those lines are finally wired, the Northern 769 fleet will have lost its raison d'etre.

Based at Allerton, the 769s could work CLC stoppers.

 

[Jamesrob637]

All I could find was one cancelled wigan Southport return due to train crew and another cancelled from Southport this evening due to a brake issue, brakes coming up few times now

The 16:15 Southport to Alderley Edge was defo 2-car yesterday as I saw it whilst on approach to Deansgate (I caught the Blackpool North to Hazel Grove 10 minutes later as why put up with crappy non air-conditioned 2-car when there's air-conditioned 6-car only minutes behind?!)

 

[D9006]

The 16:15 Southport to Alderley Edge was defo 2-car yesterday as I saw it whilst on approach to Deansgate (I caught the Blackpool North to Hazel Grove 10 minutes later as why put up with crappy non air-conditioned 2-car when there's air-conditioned 6-car only minutes behind?!)

According realtrain times it was a 769

 

[Jamesrob637]

According realtrain times it was a 769

I have this from Thursday 02.09.21: you must be looking at yesterday 03.09.21

Realtime Trains - 2K80 1615 Southport to Alderley Edge

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[D9006]

I have this from Thursday 02.09.21: you must be looking at yesterday 03.09.21

Realtime Trains - 2K80 1615 Southport to Alderley Edge

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yes my error on that,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2021 ==

Another 6 out today, so let’s see how rest of today goes

 

[Gricer99]

Yes my error on that,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2021 ==

Another 6 out today, so let’s see how rest of today goes

There was a problem with RTT on the 2nd last week. It didn't give the train details for the day you wanted but the schedule for the same train on the 3rd.

 

[Greybeard33]

Based at Allerton, the 769s could work CLC stoppers.

Good point. Although chaos would ensue if the engines failed to start at South Parkway!

 

[S&CLER]

Good point. Although chaos would ensue if the engines failed to start at South Parkway!

At least they'd be within easy reach of assistance!

 

[a_c_skinner]

On the current form you'd need to park a locomotive and a fitter there.

 

[childwallblues]

Based at Allerton, the 769s could work CLC stoppers.

Indeed they could.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Having a few days at Southport and today arrived on a pair of 150s. 769456 and 458 were both stabled in a platform. Dont think these are used Sundays so presume these be used on the first services out of Southport Monday morning?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Having a few days at Southport and today arrived on a pair of 150s. 769456 and 458 were both stabled in a platform. Dont think these are used Sundays so presume these be used on the first services out of Southport Monday morning?

None out Sundays to the best of my knowledge. I think even if Southport to Alderley Edge ran 2-hourly (which it should) they could still use pairs of diesels.

 

[D9006]

None out Sundays to the best of my knowledge. I think even if Southport to Alderley Edge ran 2-hourly (which it should) they could still use pairs of diesels.

There are no 769 diagrams on sundays, the service is Southport to Blackburn via Rochdale every hour

 

[razor89]

Having a few days at Southport and today arrived on a pair of 150s. 769456 and 458 were both stabled in a platform. Dont think these are used Sundays so presume these be used on the first services out of Southport Monday morning?

456 has been in platform 4 since I think Friday evening with some sort of fault. Mustn't be easily fixable as I've seen at least 2 failed attempts to rescue it so far. It was still there at midday today.

 

[Jamesrob637]

456 has been in platform 4 since I think Friday evening with some sort of fault. Mustn't be easily fixable as I've seen at least 2 failed attempts to rescue it so far. It was still there at midday today.

All Alderley Edges started off 769 today however I think 4 out of 5 wasn't bad by the end to paraphrase Meatloaf.

 

[childwallblues]

All Alderley Edges started off 769 today however I think 4 out of 5 wasn't bad by the end to paraphrase Meatloaf.

And 769424 was on the 1652 from Victoria to Stalybridge.

 

[DannyMich2018]

456 has been in platform 4 since I think Friday evening with some sort of fault. Mustn't be easily fixable as I've seen at least 2 failed attempts to rescue it so far. It was still there at midday today.

Thanks. Its still there now. We've had a few days at Southport and going back now. 769458 is taking us as far as Wigan. 424 arrived at 11.04. My first trip ever both to Southport and on a 769!

 

[Bow Fell]

From next week, the 769 diagrams will be reduced being replaced by single 150. Looks like the reliability issues are really starting to bite.

 

[prod_pep]

This is such a shambles, isn't it? Three years late and so unreliable when they do finally enter service that puny 2 car DMUs have to deputise.

I sincerely hope that the additional electrification sees these units condemned as a big mistake and withdrawn. I doubt many passengers would miss their miserable interiors and pathetic acceleration.

 

[Geeves]

The DMU for 769 replacement is for more driver training next week, 456 I believe is needing to be towed back to Allerton by a loco due to flat batteries (if it hasn't been already), not great!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Which diagrams are switching?

 

[175001]

From next week, the 769 diagrams will be reduced being replaced by single 150. Looks like the reliability issues are really starting to bite.

It's for driver training purposes as they need 2 to do coupling etc

 

[Geeves]

769456 has been fettled back into life after men with tools attended to it. Southport's longest station ornament is no more.