Police checking travel

[VauxhallandI]

They do have the authority, under the Byelaws (18.2), as well as more generally by virtue of being authorised to act on behalf of the train companies (who, after all, pay for the BTP).

Police officers are unlikely to have detailed knowledge of ticket validity but it isn't difficult to check that a person has a ticket which is in date, for example.

I wonder how useful they’d be with break of journey tickets

 

[dk1]

They do have the authority, under the Byelaws (18.2), as well as more generally by virtue of being authorised to act on behalf of the train companies (who, after all, pay for the BTP).

Police officers are unlikely to have detailed knowledge of ticket validity but it isn't difficult to check that a person has a ticket which is in date, for example.

Thank you.

 

[_toommm_]

I've had my ticket checked by BTP at Rochester. (I should add I hadn't done anything to attract Police attention!) There was what looked like a Home Office Immigration sting going on at the time, the barrier staff had completely disappeared (there were staff in the ticket office though, I think) and a couple of BTP officers were seemingly manning the barriers. When my Kent Rover didn't work one of them looked at it and let me out. That said, it wasn't looked at in any particular detail and the date boxes certainly weren't examined-so I suspect they were simply looking at the expiry.

I would have considered a Police Officer an Authorised Person to ask to see a ticket personally.

Imagine if you had a ticket like a Cheshire Day Ranger and BTP checked it in Liverpool...

 

[LowLevel]

I suspect that wouldn’t stop them asking passenger who they have suspicions of if they have a ticket or not.

They may wish to travel on trains between locations they need to check. Certainly better than visiting isolated stations because a local nutter is having a personal vendetta with enthusiasts.

In general county lines people have the nous to buy a ticket. The truly cocky ones who don't pay generally rapidly become unstuck. We had a trio recently who gave a few conductors grief over tickets. Within a fortnight they'd been arrested and locked up for various offences including intent to supply class A drugs, possession of a large knife and it also opened up a slavery racket that may well hit the news at some point.

That they feel secure on a train is usually their downfall. Ticket or not, if I text BTP saying there is a young lad/lady on the train with one of those chav bags that strap across their chest inside a coat and they've got a smart phone and a phone (or several phones!!) that looks like it's from 2001 next to it you can guarantee *someone* will be there to meet the train in, whether it's uniform or plain clothes officers, often just to observe rather than confront the individual which they save for later.

 

[trainophile]

In general county lines people have the nous to buy a ticket. The truly cocky ones who don't pay generally rapidly become unstuck. We had a trio recently who gave a few conductors grief over tickets. Within a fortnight they'd been arrested and locked up for various offences including intent to supply class A drugs, possession of a large knife and it also opened up a slavery racket that may well hit the news at some point.

That they feel secure on a train is usually their downfall. Ticket or not, if I text BTP saying there is a young lad/lady on the train with one of those chav bags that strap across their chest inside a coat and they've got a smart phone and a phone (or several phones!!) that looks like it's from 2001 next to it you can guarantee *someone* will be there to meet the train in, whether it's uniform or plain clothes officers, often just to observe rather than confront the individual which they save for later.

There's certainly a lot more to your job than opening and closing the doors isn't there! It's good that people like you take the trouble to flag up suspicious things, rather than just letting it go because it's too much hassle.

 

[LowLevel]

There's certainly a lot more to your job than opening and closing the doors isn't there! It's good that people like you take the trouble to flag up suspicious things, rather than just letting it go because it's too much hassle.

A group of my colleagues getting organised on Telegram also dealt with this fellow, getting covert photos, working out his regular movements and even finding out his address to send the old bill round.

BTP | Sex pest who assaulted numerous women sentenced - Nottinghamshire

Sex pest who assaulted numerous women sentenced - Nottinghamshire

media.btp.police.uk

As a general rule most railway staff are fairly easy going types. Some daft individuals forget that we actually talk to each other and the police though. No one wants their workplace being used for criminality. Just because we don't look like we are doing anything at the time doesn't mean we aren't quietly giving someone enough rope to hang themselves

 

[VauxhallandI]

In general county lines people have the nous to buy a ticket. The truly cocky ones who don't pay generally rapidly become unstuck. We had a trio recently who gave a few conductors grief over tickets. Within a fortnight they'd been arrested and locked up for various offences including intent to supply class A drugs, possession of a large knife and it also opened up a slavery racket that may well hit the news at some point.

That they feel secure on a train is usually their downfall. Ticket or not, if I text BTP saying there is a young lad/lady on the train with one of those chav bags that strap across their chest inside a coat and they've got a smart phone and a phone (or several phones!!) that looks like it's from 2001 next to it you can guarantee *someone* will be there to meet the train in, whether it's uniform or plain clothes officers, often just to observe rather than confront the individual which they save for later.

Good work

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2021 ==

A group of my colleagues getting organised on Telegram also dealt with this fellow, getting covert photos, working out his regular movements and even finding out his address to send the old bill round.

BTP | Sex pest who assaulted numerous women sentenced - Nottinghamshire

Sex pest who assaulted numerous women sentenced - Nottinghamshire

media.btp.police.uk

As a general rule most railway staff are fairly easy going types. Some daft individuals forget that we actually talk to each other and the police though. No one wants their workplace being used for criminality. Just because we don't look like we are doing anything at the time doesn't mean we aren't quietly giving someone enough rope to hang themselves

Even better work!

 

[kristiang85]

This isn't travel, but just an example of pandemic policing.

Covid: Hackney railway arch rave attended by '300 people'

Police say organisers padlocked the door from the inside to stop officers getting in.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ch Supt Roy Smith said: "This was a serious and blatant breach of the public health regulations and the law.

"Officers were forced, yet again, to put their own health at risk to deal with a large group of incredibly selfish people who were tightly packed together in a confined space - providing an ideal opportunity for this deadly virus to spread.

"Not just organisers, but all those present at such illegal parties can expect to be issued a fine."

But surely those people had been 'tighly packed' for long enough that breaking it up made no difference, and police officers were just unnecessarily exposing themselves? (assuming the virus was present).

It also mentions that revellers were scaling fences to escape the police... surely that carries more risk of injury/death than COVID.

Yes, these people are idiots, but in one picture I see 18 officers (and probably more are there), and it just seems a bit pointless to risk exposing them, thus putting a whole police unit in isolation, and taking police off actual criminal duties for that evening.

Maybe others have another opinion, but personally I'd have just left them to it and retrospectively done some investigation into finding the organisers and giving them a whacking big fine.

 

[yorkie]

This isn't travel, but just an example of pandemic policing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-5578704

But surely those people had been 'tighly packed' for long enough that breaking it up made no difference, and police officers were just unnecessarily exposing themselves? (assuming the virus was present).

It also mentions that revellers were scaling fences to escape the police... surely that carries more risk of injury/death than COVID.

Yes, these people are idiots, but in one picture I see 18 officers (and probably more are there), and it just seems a bit pointless to risk exposing them, thus putting a whole police unit in isolation, and taking police off actual criminal duties for that evening.

Maybe others have another opinion, but personally I'd have just left them to it and retrospectively done some investigation into finding the organisers and giving them a whacking big fine.

Yes those actions are pretty irresponsible but I am not sure the current authoritarian approach is sustainable; as you say it could lead to risk of injury to those trying to escape, as well as officers.

There is no way we can be doing this in a few months time once the weather gets warmer; there were some very serious situations last Summer which could have escalated into major incidents.

 

[trainophile]

This isn't travel, but just an example of pandemic policing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-5578704

But surely those people had been 'tighly packed' for long enough that breaking it up made no difference, and police officers were just unnecessarily exposing themselves? (assuming the virus was present).

It also mentions that revellers were scaling fences to escape the police... surely that carries more risk of injury/death than COVID.

Yes, these people are idiots, but in one picture I see 18 officers (and probably more are there), and it just seems a bit pointless to risk exposing them, thus putting a whole police unit in isolation, and taking police off actual criminal duties for that evening.

Maybe others have another opinion, but personally I'd have just left them to it and retrospectively done some investigation into finding the organisers and giving them a whacking big fine.

I'm getting a 404 Page error on that link. Did anyone c&p the whole article? Wonder if it's been taken down because it's untrue or not recent.

 

[yorkie]

I'm getting a 404 Page error on that link. Did anyone c&p the whole article? Wonder if it's been taken down because it's untrue or not recent.

There was a missing 4 in the URL; now fixed

Covid: Hackney railway arch rave attended by '300 people'

Police say organisers padlocked the door from the inside to stop officers getting in.

www.bbc.co.uk

(This is one of the reasons why we require a quote, which the member did helpfully provide! In fact the quote helped me to locate the URL)

 

[trainophile]

There was a missing 4 in the URL; now fixed

Covid: Hackney railway arch rave attended by '300 people'

Police say organisers padlocked the door from the inside to stop officers getting in.

www.bbc.co.uk

(This is one of the reasons why we require a quote, which the member did helpfully provide! In fact the quote helped me to locate the URL)

Thank you!

 

[317 forever]

Doubt it, more interested in driving the bus or train! Possibly a dirty look from a bus driver if its obvious.

When I went to London in November I got off 1 bus, caught another bus to the terminus of the 1st bus in that connection, then while I was waiting for the following bus the driver of the 1st bus passed me and sounded his horn then I noticed him looking at me. He must have figured I was a travel enthusiast and disapproved. I won't name and shame but he was from a garage I remember being unfriendly when I lived in London in the 80s.

 

[DB]

When I went to London in November I got off 1 bus, caught another bus to the terminus of the 1st bus in that connection, then while I was waiting for the following bus the driver of the 1st bus passed me and sounded his horn then I noticed him looking at me. He must have figured I was a travel enthusiast and disapproved. I won't name and shame but he was from a garage I remember being unfriendly when I lived in London in the 80s.

This whole situation has certainly been a boon for those who like to get self-righteous about people doing things they don't like!

 

[yorkie]

This whole situation has certainly been a boon for those who like to get self-righteous about people doing things they don't like!

It's an authoritarian's dream!

 

[GodAtum]

What's the rule in carrying ID? Let's say the police give you a fine and you happily give your name and address, do they need to see ID proof, otherwise you'll be arrested?

 

[221129]

What's the rule in carrying ID? Let's say the police give you a fine and you happily give your name and address, do they need to see ID proof, otherwise you'll be arrested?

There is no requirement to have or carry ID in this country.

 

[Mojo]

They do have the authority, under the Byelaws (18.2), as well as more generally by virtue of being authorised to act on behalf of the train companies (who, after all, pay for the BTP).

Police officers are unlikely to have detailed knowledge of ticket validity but it isn't difficult to check that a person has a ticket which is in date, for example.

That is correct, however I know that in some companies it is frowned upon for police officers to check tickets, especially when not accompanied by rail staff. I’m aware of at least one industrial relations issue in the Revenue department that was caused by BTP officers routinely checking tickets.

 

[Watershed]

What's the rule in carrying ID? Let's say the police give you a fine and you happily give your name and address, do they need to see ID proof, otherwise you'll be arrested?

There's no legal requirement to carry ID. If the police reasonably suspect you've committed an offence and intend to issue a FPN or report the matter for prosecution, one would imagine they would ask if you have ID. If you don't produce any, you could be arrested and detained if the officer suspected you weren't being honest about your details.

 

[stevetay3]

There's no legal requirement to carry ID. If the police reasonably suspect you've committed an offence and intend to issue a FPN or report the matter for prosecution, one would imagine they would ask if you have ID. If you don't produce any, you could be arrested and detained if the officer suspected you weren't being honest about your details.

Have ing then been found innocent can you claim for illegal imprisonments.

 

[MrTurbostar170]

Two police officers at both Stratford and Stratford International yesterday who didn't seem to really be doing much. Had no issues on the whole of my journey from Norfolk to Kent.

 

[takno]

There's no legal requirement to carry ID. If the police reasonably suspect you've committed an offence and intend to issue a FPN or report the matter for prosecution, one would imagine they would ask if you have ID. If you don't produce any, you could be arrested and detained if the officer suspected you weren't being honest about your details.

They will check addresses against public records, but if you give a valid name and address they'd want to have something a bit more substantial than not-liking-the-look-of-you to detain you. There's no requirement to carry ID, and a good proportion of the population doesn't.

 

[Watershed]

Have ing then been found innocent can you claim for illegal imprisonments.

Generally it is very difficult to claim for false imprisonment against the police. They have a broad range of powers they can exercise simply by "reasonably" believing or suspecting something.

 

[DB]

Two police officers at both Stratford and Stratford International yesterday who didn't seem to really be doing much. Had no issues on the whole of my journey from Norfolk to Kent.

A number at Leeds this morning - two were arguing with a bloke with his mask on his chin (seemed to be about a ticket), the rest just stood around looking bored.

 

[MikeWM]

Heard a story today from a colleague whose relative in their mid-80s, walking with a stick, was told by the police to stop sitting on a bench that he'd briefly sat on to try to catch his breath.

Incredible what we've come to.

 

[island]

Have ing then been found innocent can you claim for illegal imprisonments.

You can claim what you wish but unless you can prove the police acted maliciously you’re unlikely to get anything for your troubles besides a legal bill.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Heard a story today from a colleague whose relative in their mid-80s, walking with a stick, was told by the police to stop sitting on a bench that he'd briefly sat on to try to catch his breath.

Incredible what we've come to.

If that is true, that's outrageous. Should be reported ASAP.

 

[bramling]

BTP had a blockade at Euston mainline station today. All the entrances bar one were closed, and the remaining one had a line-up of BTP questioning everyone “what is your reason for travel today?”. Some people were being quite comprehensively grilled by the look of it. I suspect it may have been more to do with the HS2 protests, however it really made for an oppressive atmosphere, as well as causing a crowd of people round the entrance which wouldn’t otherwise have been there.

 

[kristiang85]

This video was posted yesterday and makes my blood boil - basically the police pulling up a guy apparently walking to work. The man who gets arrested is well within his rights not to give details. This reminds me of some of the shadier police forces I've come across in some of my dicier travels; it's absolutely horrible to see what is happening here in the UK.

Obviously the attitude test was failed, but to be honest I think I would have made the same point, and I've always maintained a high degree of respect for the police. We do not live in a "papers please" state.

https://twitter.com/C1Haywood/status/1354417928007987205?s=19

 

[RT4038]

We do not live in a "papers please" state.

https://twitter.com/C1Haywood/status/1354417928007987205?s=19

No, we live in a 'Stick to the rules to save lives, but nobody should be challenged so if you don't like the rules just ignore them' society.