Plusbus tickets - onboard availability

[Bristol Rover]

Yesterday I was travelling from Bedminster (unmanned station with no machines) to Cheltenham Spa, and when the guard arrived, I requested a Cheltenham Spa Plusbus (races special) ticket.

The guard was unable to sell me the requested fare, insisting it didn't exist on his little machine. I asked him if he'd mind me getting off at Temple Meads (the station where I needed to change train) and buy it from the booking office there, where I have had no problems in purchasing such a ticket before. Sadly he was a jobsworth and got very upset, demanding I bought a ticket from him and insisting the fare did not exist.

The journey from Bedminster to BTM is very short, so there wasn't much time for an argument and the guard was whisked off by other customers asking him to help an elderly passenger alight from the train, and the train was due to depart swiftly afterwards. So in the end I just bought the ticket from the booking office at Temple Meads.

What should have happened here? Had there been more time, I would probably have ended up buying a normal return to Cheltenham Spa and then got it changed at the booking office at Bristol, but who is in the right? Was the guard right to insist on the purchasing of a ticket from him which did not fulfil my requirements?

Ironically I ended up buying the fare I could have bought on board (a normal return), since the races special plusbus was actually more expensive than the return rail fare (£5!!) and I felt reluctant to indulge in such a rip off, but that is irrelevant.

 

[philjo]

I think that for certain routes the plusbus element has to be booked separately.
i.e. you book your rail ticket as normal then get a separate ticket for plusbus. (in your case the 2nd ticket would be from Cheltenham to Cheltenham plusbus)
This is how my season ticket was issued - with a separate ticket for the Potters Bar plusbus element so I have 2 goldcards in the wallet with the photocard - one for the train and the other for the buses. (though I think that non-seasons can usually be done in one ticket)

If you book online via east coast, it offers you the option for plusbus - you book the rail ticket first then it comes up as an option for origin/destination stations if available from those stations

I think you can upgrade this also at the station, so if you show a valid rail ticket to Cheltenham at cheltenham station they should be able to sell you a Cheltenham to cheltenham plusbus ticket (which is then only valid on the buses). I have done this before when I couldn't get the plusbus element e.g. booking online or via the self-service machines
the plusbus website may have more details.

 

[yorkie]

It clearly does exist and therefore should be on all ticket machines however according to the PlusBus site (see Q3 below) not all ticket machines can, which is a great shame if that's still the case. Was the guard suggesting PlusBus did not exist for that particular journey, or did he say that his machine didn't have it or had he simply not heard of PlusBus? I believe it may be a training issue. It's also poor customer service because he should have explained to you that PlusBus can't be issued from his machine (if that is what the problem was) and re-assure you that you can get the add-on from the station. Philjo is correct in that it is issued as an add-on (see Q2 below).

From the PlusBus Q&A:-
2. I have already bought my train ticket online/by 'phone/at a station, can I still buy PLUSBUS for my journey?
Yes, if you take your valid train ticket to any staffed train station, ask for PLUSBUS for either your origin or destination town. You will be asked to pay the appropriate PLUSBUS add-on ticket price.
3. Can I buy PLUSBUS on the train from a conductor?
Train Companies advise customers wherever possible to purchase their tickets before getting on a train, from a ticket office, a self-service ticket machine or in advance by phone or online. There are various different types of hand-held ticket machines in use by train company Conductors/Train Managers, only some of them are able to issue PLUSBUS tickets. It is therefore not possible for us to give a definitive answer whether a specific train operators' on-train staff can sell a PLUSBUS ticket. You may wish to contact the relevant Train Company for further assistance.

 

[John @ home]

I think that non-seasons can usually be done in one ticket

My experience is that separate Plusbus Day tickets have always been issued to me, eg.

between LEEDS. * & LEEDS + BUS *
between SCARBOROUGH. * & SCARBOROUGH + BUS *

even when they have been purchased in one transaction.

 

[Greenback]

I bought a Cardiff Plusbus on board an ATW service from West Wales earlier this year. I asked the conductor first if she was able to sell it, and she said 'Yes, I think I remember where it is on this' and within a few seconds there it was! I didn't have a separate pluxbus ticket though, which caused some of the bus drivers in Cardiff to examine the ticket very carefully to ensure it said Plusbus!

Of course, now that I know ATW ticket machines can issue the tickets, I won;t be fobbed off in future by those who just can't be bothered to issue it!

 

[Mojo]

It seems some areas have separate tickets but for some places it can be purchased as one transaction.

 

[philjo]

For FCC stations, season tickets including PlusBus are issued as 2 separate tickets.
However for day tickets the plusbus is issued on the same ticket.

Make sure you have the leaflet with you showing the bus area map- in some areas you get told by the bus driver that it is a train ticket so not valid on his bus ! (or round here they confuse it with London travelcards with a different validity area)

 

[Greenback]

In Cardiff, the drivers were checking for the specific word Plusbus!

 

[sheff1]

Make sure you have the leaflet with you showing the bus area map

Good advice, but even that doesn't always work. In Glasgow the driver looked at the map I had but still maintained a train ticket wasn't valid on his bus ! :cry:

I refused to pay the fare he demanded and insisted he ring his depot/control. Even though he kept on telling them about someone wanting to use a train ticket on the bus(even though the ticket clearly stated Glasgow Plusbus) they realised he was talking about Plusbus and told him it was valid.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

3. Can I buy PLUSBUS on the train from a conductor?
Train Companies advise customers wherever possible to purchase their tickets before getting on a train, from a ticket office, a self-service ticket machine or in advance by phone or online. There are various different types of hand-held ticket machines in use by train company Conductors/Train Managers, only some of them are able to issue PLUSBUS tickets. It is therefore not possible for us to give a definitive answer whether a specific train operators' on-train staff can sell a PLUSBUS ticket. You may wish to contact the relevant Train Company for further assistance.

On our Avantix machines, in most cases, the plusbus tickets are not shown, we have to put in the two separate tickets individually. For example, if you go to the ticket office at Leeds and ask for a York Plusbus you get one ticket which says "From : Leeds To: York +bus". If I select origin Leeds and destination York +bus on Avantix it says "No fares available". If however I do a Leeds to York ticket, and then do a separate York to York+bus ticket, it will work - the total fare paid is the same but the machine prints two tickets rather than one.

It is a bit of nuisance really, if perhaps you are unfamiliar with it (like the Guard in the OP's original case) then you could get caught out. Please also bear in mind that anybody asking for a plusbus ticket onboard lots of services will be extremely rare so the Guard may not be familiar with the procedure - however that is no excuse for the relevant TOC not issuing the appropriate instructions in the first place (which my TOC has not done!).

 

[Greenback]

On our Avantix machines, in most cases, the plusbus tickets are not shown, we have to put in the two separate tickets individually. For example, if you go to the ticket office at Leeds and ask for a York Plusbus you get one ticket which says "From : Leeds To: York +bus". If I select origin Leeds and destination York +bus on Avantix it says "No fares available". If however I do a Leeds to York ticket, and then do a separate York to York+bus ticket, it will work - the total fare paid is the same but the machine prints two tickets rather than one.

It is a bit of nuisance really, if perhaps you are unfamiliar with it (like the Guard in the OP's original case) then you could get caught out. Please also bear in mind that anybody asking for a plusbus ticket onboard lots of services will be extremely rare so the Guard may not be familiar with the procedure - however that is no excuse for the relevant TOC not issuing the appropriate instructions in the first place (which my TOC has not done!).

For me that sums up the British railway industry - everything is three times more complicated than it needs to be and the staff are not properly briefed!

 

[Bristol Rover]

Thanks for the replies. I will write to FGW and see what they have to say on the matter. Will post the (rushed, useless and no doubt ignoring the key points) reply in due course ... !

 

[jon0844]

For the last two years, my season ticket has always had +BUS added to the station with the plusbus part added on.

When I renewed this year, I got a second ticket which, despite being annual, was printed on a dark grey season ticket.

It's a pain as I now have three tickets (the third being the Gold Record Card for my Travelcard) and a photocard - and nobody makes a four windowed ticket holder!

I guess it does make things easier for a bus driver to recognise - although it still shows the BR logo and is going to appear like a train ticket to any bus driver that isn't aware anyway. In other words, it doesn't really help if that was the reason for doing it. Surely, you'd have the TOC issuing such tickets on an all-new ticket design that says 'plusbus' - otherwise what's the point besides any benefits to the TOC that might account for separate tickets differently?

 

[A60K]

It should certainly be possible to program the PlusBus logo to appear, the same as with the LT roundel on Travelcards.

 

[transportphoto]

It should certainly be possible to program the PlusBus logo to appear, the same as with the LT roundel on Travelcards.

Doubt it would appear very well - when its printed on most of the ticket printers currently operating. Would be a bit blurred.

Posted from the 'apple shop'! - I wish I could afford one of these PCs!

 

[jon0844]

Given they're separate tickets, you'd think that from a ticket window they'll pick a green/yellow plusbus ticket to print on. Even though standard paper stock may go through the machine, they can still put in a single ticket to print on can't they? They have all the tickets to print season tickets and railcards.

From a machine, I guess it would be a bit different - but they can print DAY TRAVELCARD quite clearly. I'm sure PLUSBUS TICKET would be quite easy to put on instead.

Can you even get plusbus from a TVM?

 

[Greenback]

Can't find Plusbus on my local TVM!

 

[philjo]

I asked FCC about this in one of their online forums in April 2008.

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=233&sMethod=ViewArchive&iForumId=15&sQuestionNumber=42&sAskedby=&sSearchFor=&iSectionId=VA

I haven't managed to do it as yet via the TVM, though non-seasons can now be purchsed with the plusbus elements online so I have done this & printed the tickets via the TVM on one occasion (though ususally get them via the ticket office)

I would agree that the plus bus ticket should have large letters on it saying PLusBus (or something along those lines), similar to the different lettering on a travelcard so that the bus driver can read it easily.

It is still better than when WAGN introduced the bus add ons in conjunction with Herts COunty Council - before the plus bus was a national scheme.
Then, your rail ticket for Potters Bar was issued to "pottersbarbuspbr" (as printed here), & even the Wagn ticket offices often had difficulty finding it to issue them! the alternative one for Potters Bus zone with train issued to Brookmans Park had the ticket issues to "pottersbarbusbpk"
I had a few arguments with bus drivers then who said it wasn't valid!

 

[Edvid]

I purchased a +Bus ticket online recently, and it had PLUSBUS DAY printed in big letters on the top - even so one of the Route 94 (Stagecoach Gold) bus drivers in Cheltenham initially failed to recognise its validity.

 

[jon0844]

I have to say that I have not had any refusal on my local buses in the last two years, nor when we were in York and I'd paid to get +BUS on our EC tickets (worked well - there two days, so used the +BUS for the out and rtn for the Saturday and Sunday!).

I guess the important thing is to insist they check on the radio, or just refuse to get off. They'll almost certainly give in - and if you were subsequently checked by an inspector, you know you'd be okay anyway.

 

[barrykas]

I have to say that I have not had any refusal on my local buses in the last two years, nor when we were in York and I'd paid to get +BUS on our EC tickets (worked well - there two days, so used the +BUS for the out and rtn for the Saturday and Sunday!).

Officially, if you're returning on a different day you need TWO PlusBus tickets, as they're only valid for a single day! And you'll need to get them both BEFORE you get to your PlusBus destination, as they can't be issued within the area they cover. (There's nothing to physically prevent it, but them's the rules).

Cheers,

Barry

 

[tony_mac]

as they can't be issued within the area they cover.

that can't be entirely correct - they can be issued for the origin town as well as the destination.

There is also no mention of this restriction on the website.

2. I have already bought my train ticket online/by 'phone/at a station, can I still buy PLUSBUS for my journey?
Yes, if you take your valid train ticket to any staffed train station, ask for PLUSBUS for either your origin or destination town.

 

[transportphoto]

I would guess that you if you are buying tickets for the future from your home station / destination station then they can sell plusbus for their own area - but not for immediate use.

My View & Guess

 

[jon0844]

Officially, if you're returning on a different day you need TWO PlusBus tickets, as they're only valid for a single day!

We did. You could/can add plusbus via the EC booking engine - which is what we did. It worked out well because we were only there two days. If we'd gone up Friday and come back Sunday, we'd have been scuppered though - having one day we needed to buy a regular day ticket. Plusbus is a lot cheaper than most one day rover tickets!!

However, good as it is; we wound up with 6 tickets each which is a bit silly - and a PITA to look after.

 

[yorkie]

It only saves 50p in York, although the saving is more substantial if a railcard is held.

Does a Network Railcard get you a discount on the York plusbus? If so does that only apply if you have a ticket from the Network area? If you split tickets e.g. London-Peterborough + Peterborough-York can you still get a railcard discount on the York plusbus?

 

[barrykas]

that can't be entirely correct - they can be issued for the origin town as well as the destination.

There is also no mention of this restriction on the website.

Mea culpa. What I meant to put was that they can't be issued in conjunction with rail journeys wholly inside the PlusBus area, so you can't, for example, get a train ticket for Rochdale to Manchester Central Zone with a Manchester PlusBus add-on.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[323235]

I got one from Manchester Piccadilly once when I was travelling from Levenshume when one of my mates lived there.

obviously the person who I asked wasn't aware of this rule.

This was before I found out you arn't supposed to buy a Manchester,Rochdale,Stockport Plusbus when your travelling from a GMPTE station to the relevant plusbus destination or similar.

 

[Tom B]

I've never looked at them seriously before now - but £3.50 for a day's travel in Doncaster is about £2 cheaper than the equivalent bus company product (SY Travelmaster).

The only issue is I suspect I'd get problems with buses not accepting them - they are a law unto themselves.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The only issue is I suspect I'd get problems with buses not accepting them - they are a law unto themselves.

I once had a heated debate with a Bus Driver while trying to use a Plusbus ticket. The driver insisted that they weren't valid, and insisted I paid. I produced the print out of the relevant map and details outlining its validity,but he refused to budge. As I refused to pay or get off he rung the Inspectors via phone and judging by the way he was talking to them about me I think he was expecting them to tell him he was right.

Unfortunately, and much to my amusement, they obviously told him the ticket was valid because his mood suddenly changed, he literally threw the ticket back at me without saying a word, and sped away from the stop violently and horrendously fast.

Other than that one occasion I have had the odd puzzled look, with drivers saying "I have never seen one of them before", but then happily acknowledging that they were valid and continuing without problem.

 

[Greenback]

I once had a heated debate with a Bus Driver while trying to use a Plusbus ticket. The driver insisted that they weren't valid, and insisted I paid. I produced the print out of the relevant map and details outlining its validity,but he refused to budge. As I refused to pay or get off he rung the Inspectors via phone and judging by the way he was talking to them about me I think he was expecting them to tell him he was right.

Unfortunately, and much to my amusement, they obviously told him the ticket was valid because his mood suddenly changed, he literally threw the ticket back at me without saying a word, and sped away from the stop violently and horrendously fast.

Other than that one occasion I have had the odd puzzled look, with drivers saying "I have never seen one of them before", but then happily acknowledging that they were valid and continuing without problem.

I have used them in Cardiff, where one driver looked for the word 'Plusbus', but the others seemed to recognise it, and in Swansea where all the drivers recognised immediately that the ticket was valid. It's probably down to local briefings and info provided by the management, so some places are probably excellent, and others awful!