Please help!!! Musical instruments on trains

[iloveacaibowls]

Hi all,
wondered if i could get some advice/info about this - i have an orchestra residential up in preston in feb and i need to get back to london by train, i play cello so this could be tricky. I plan to take AWC as it's direct to london and therefore easier but the instrument won't fit anywhere in the train, apart from the bike racks at the end of the train i imagine but I've never taken it on AWC before. I've contacted AWC a while back to ask if they would kindly store it in the bike rack as LNER have done in the past but I haven't got a reply. please could anyone give suggestions about what to do next???
thanks!

 

[Egg Centric]

My very first step would be to contact them again!

They can refuse it - it's wayyyyy outside their luggage policy which you can read here - but I doubt there'll be a problem in practice unless it's a very full train. But having a "yes" from customer service would be wise.

If that contact doesn't work out then there are further steps that can be taken (e.g. the "send my bag" mentioned in my link but I don't think that's appropriate for a cello either).

 

[Mollman]

My very first step would be to contact them again!

They can refuse it but I doubt there'll be a problem in practice unless it's a very full train. But having a "yes" from customer service would be wise.

If that contact doesn't work out then there are further steps that can be taken.

Agreed, if you are able to contact via Twitter (sorry X) that might get a reply.

 

[iloveacaibowls]

My very first step would be to contact them again!

They can refuse it - it's wayyyyy outside their luggage policy which you can read here - but I doubt there'll be a problem in practice unless it's a very full train. But having a "yes" from customer service would be wise.

If that contact doesn't work out then there are further steps that can be taken (e.g. the "send my bag" mentioned in my link but I don't think that's appropriate for a cello either).

the send my bag option is a bit sketchy for the cello i think but i'll try getting in touch again thanks!

 

[Egg Centric]

the send my bag option is a bit sketchy for the cello i think but i'll try getting in touch again thanks!

BTW I'm not really familiar with what an orchestral residential is as my musical ability is limited to headbanging, but this sounds like something where you could ask them for what previous residents have done - have they been able to assist?

 

[iloveacaibowls]

BTW I'm not really familiar with what an orchestral residential is as my musical ability is limited to headbanging, but this sounds like something where you could ask them for what previous residents have done - have they been able to assist?

i have asked others before, and unfortunately it seems like luck is the best way with things like this. but, none of them have travelled with avanti before with instruments so i'm a bit stuck on that end basically

 

[Egg Centric]

FWIW I asked my musican friend who is 'important' enough to have a wikipedia article who says:

"Just take it on, they'll be fine, especially off peak"

and

"I used to take that train all the time"

(Then again they also praised the Liz Truss mini-budget when it came out. I take no responsibility for anything)

 

[iloveacaibowls]

FWIW I asked my musican friend who is 'important' enough to have a wikipedia article who says:

"Just take it on, they'll be fine, especially off peak"

and

"I used to take that train all the time"

(Then again they also praised the Liz Truss mini-budget when it came out. I take no responsibility for anything)

fair enough thanks so much for your help

 

[Peter0124]

Was gonna say you could travel via any other permitted route eg LNWR from Crewe (which I think is permitted) but I forgot that to get from Preston to Crewe you need to get Avanti.

Thats if LNWR allow the instrument of course!

 

[Egg Centric]

Was gonna say you could travel via any other permitted route eg LNWR from Crewe (which I think is permitted) but I forgot that to get from Preston to Crewe you need to get Avanti

Although if Avanti are being dicks in Euston, then taking LNWR to Crewe (I read OP as travelling south-north first) then changing onto Avanti is a possibility.

 

[iloveacaibowls]

response from AWC just now

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

Although if Avanti are being dicks in Euston, then taking LNWR to Crewe (I read OP as travelling south-north first) then changing onto Avanti is a possibility.

they're giving us coaches up but not back unfortunately (sounds stupid i know)

 

[Egg Centric]

they're giving us coaches up but not back unfortunately (sounds stupid i know)

I suppose this depends how much of a risk you're prepared to take. While to me Preston isn't north, from a London perspective it totally is. Northerners (from a London perspective) are generally friendly and helpful. Are you prepared to attempt to board a couple of Avanti services and possibly (but highly unlikely) having to make an "emergency" overnight stay in Preston? If so I'd personally risk it as it's highly likely you can get on. This calculus may change for an impecunious music student though. And I'm also assuming here that it isn't an entire orchestra trying to board the same train, just you!

 

[iloveacaibowls]

I suppose this depends how much of a risk you're prepared to take. While to me Preston isn't north, from a London perspective it totally is. Northerners (from a London perspective) are generally friendly and helpful. Are you prepared to attempt to board a couple of Avanti services and possibly (but highly unlikely) having to make an "emergency" overnight stay in Preston? If so I'd personally risk it as it's highly likely you can get on. This calculus may change for an impecunious music student though. And I'm also assuming here that it isn't an entire orchestra trying to board the same train, just you!

unfortunately the orchestra have suggested everyone get the same train (again, not really much thought for the train crew!) but i have college the next morning so i sort of have to get back to london as soon as possible - however i prob would j get an off peak single so i can play it by ear?

 

[MotCO]

Is a Nat Express coach an alternative option?

 

[iloveacaibowls]

Is a Nat Express coach an alternative option?

probably not, it would get back too late in london (we finish around 7pm)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

I suppose this depends how much of a risk you're prepared to take. While to me Preston isn't north, from a London perspective it totally is. Northerners (from a London perspective) are generally friendly and helpful. Are you prepared to attempt to board a couple of Avanti services and possibly (but highly unlikely) having to make an "emergency" overnight stay in Preston? If so I'd personally risk it as it's highly likely you can get on. This calculus may change for an impecunious music student though. And I'm also assuming here that it isn't an entire orchestra trying to board the same train, just you!

unfortunately the orchestra have suggested everyone get the same train but i have college the next morning so i sort of have to get back to london as soon as possible - however i prob would j get an off peak single so i can play it by ear?

 

[Egg Centric]

unfortunately the orchestra have suggested everyone get the same train but i have college the next morning so i sort of have to get back to london as soon as possible - however i prob would j get an off peak single so i can play it by ear?

For simplicity's sake sure. NB that there are cheaper ways which retain flexibility (for example splitting at Crewe and getting a Super Off Peak from there) but not the total flexibility a simple single offpeak ticket would give you.

 

[Magdalia]

so i can play it by ear?

isn't it better to know the score?

 

[iloveacaibowls]

isn't it better to know the score?

very good, very good

 

[norbitonflyer]

I once met a musician on South Eastern travelling with her instrument - a harp. She said she often used the train.

 

[RAPC]

I’ve accompanied my daughter and her friend on an orchestral residential, but in the other direction. (We’re Preston and the last one was in London)

It was a bulky French Horn case and a full size double bass. AWC did respond about 3 days before departure and basically said to speak to the TM.

We booked seats in Coach A and grabbed the TM at Preston and London. It was a quiet journey in the way down, so they were happy for us to use the empty disabled area in coach B to store the double bass. On the way back, the TM sorted for the double bass to go in the cycle area at the front.

A cello, even with a full size case and extras will be accommodated pretty easily, especially off peak.

 

[tram21]

Just squeeze it onto the train, you should be fine. You'd be very very unlikely to be refused!! I commuted on a busy Nottingham Tram with a trombone for a few years and managed to squeeze it on!

 

[mikeb42]

Are you a student at one of the London music colleges? Any randomly selected string professor you ask is likely to have a contact in the strings of the Halle, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic, BBC Philharmonic or Opera North orchestras. They employ about 40 cellists between them in NW England. Pretty much all of those will have bitter experience of every conceivable way of lugging a cello between London and the NW to indirectly call on.

Failing that you might just try contacting those organisations directly via X/email and asking if they can ask their section. They may even have transport staff who know what to do when they use a train to shift the entire section en masse. They might be more helpful than you think, being rather different to ruthless "give us your money, we don't care" corporations like, erm, ooh, Avanti.

It's not unusual to see cellists with instruments on GWR long distance out of London, usually by just shoving the case in the space of an empty seat. However this is usually late at night on trains that aren't too full, plus hardened pros are skilled in the art of winging it. GWR guards also very rarely like to be belligerent about things for the sake of it, which helps. Your mileage may literally vary on other operators...

Good luck with it.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think the best thing to do is ask the train manager (I think they'll usually be at the door to coach C next to coach D, which will be at floor marker 8)

 

[williamn]

Hi - I work in orchestral management and have travelled many times with musicians and intruments on trains, including AWC and predecessors, it's never been a problem. You could perhaps try to get the seats at the very back of Coach A (or front, leaving London) as they have a ton of space behind them for luggage.

Unless you're on a hideously over crowded train I think you'll always find a spot for it.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

Not really helpful, but I have a photo somewhere of someone buying a train ticket at a London terminal with two hard-cased cellos on tow ...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, what is official policy for outsized luggage (which is essentially what we are talking about) on the GB railway these days? Does it vary by TOC?

Not permitted? At Train Manager's discretion (if there is one)? Allowed, but can't occupy a seat? Chargeable?

Good chance that the musical instrument will be in a case with dimensions larger than 90 x 70 x 30 cm.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There isn't a consistent policy, it varies by TOC and is often discretion based (i.e. a lot of the time people won't notice - almost all large rucksacks are thicker than 30cm as they tend to have a square profile rather than a rectangular one - indeed I did look and can't see a single 75 litre plus rucksack on the market that *isn't* over 30cm thick when packed due to the way they round a bit).

With regard to musical instruments on Pendolinos, if you can get it on it might fit behind the back row of seats in coach A on the cyclists' side? There's quite a big space there that people rarely use (I tend to put my bag in it when sitting in my favourite seat, coach A seat 45).

I did actually see someone loading a fairly big box into the bike space on Sunday, with staff assistance. But it may have been a bike box, to be fair, it wasn't obvious what it was, just that it was quite big.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I have taken my cello on cross country trains and basically put it on the seat next me in the unreserved coaches. Granted it is electric so the case isnt as wide, its still has the same depth and height and inflexibility and general desire not to have it go out of my sight.

I would definitely say do not let it out of your sight

 

[Bletchleyite]

A thought - if there's a group of you might it make sense to hire a minibus, either self drive (if one of you has the appropriate licence - while there's an exemption for driving minibuses for leisure purposes on a class B licence most hire places won't accept it and many buses are too heavy to qualify) or with a driver? The cost may not be that bad if you're a group.

Or if you're students, perhaps your Union minibus would be quite cheap?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I have taken my cello on cross country trains and basically put it on the seat next me in the unreserved coaches.

And if the train's busy? Can quite understand why you'd do this, but it's still luggage occupying a seat, isn't it?