Pick up and Set Down Rules and Examples.

[Mcr Warrior]

Believe the London Paddington->Penzance sleeper is pick up only at Reading and set down only from those station stops west of Newton Abbot.

 

[Starmill]

Under no* circumstances will you be permitted to board a southbound Avanti at Watford Junction. It is also fairly unlikely that you would get away with it even if you had a technically valid ticket like an ALR.

You may get away with it if they don't see you, but they probably will, and if they do they will delay the train while they remove you.



You may break your journey but may resume it only using LNR or LO services.

* Well, almost none. It's not totally unknown in very severe disruption, but it's probably happened single-figure numbers of times ever.

They're really not that bothered, or more accurately not able to be that bothered, any more. If a train has an additional stop order at Watford Junction, they'll probably let it go that people get on towards London. Why would they make more work for themselves as a consequence of the unreliability of Avanti West Coast's services? Neither the platform staff nor the train manager need the additional hassle over what they'll already get nowadays from the "genuine" Avanti customers who've already been disrupted. It's simply not worth it. Obviously, technically, it remains not permitted, and if you ask, that's what you'll be told. Furthermore sometimes they put the additional stop in as an open call anyway, so it appears on the National Rail Enquiries app. Whether that's through accident at control or simply that everyone has more important things to worry about now, I don't know.

 

[AlterEgo]

Coventry is usually the station before Watford Jn, but it would be whatever it was for that particular train.

Note: it may not be lawful for Avanti to charge for a journey not actually made.

I am convinced the NRCoT actually makes no provision whatsoever for any penalty if you board or alight from a train not specified to allow it, and have held this view for a very long time.

 

[furlong]

I am convinced the NRCoT actually makes no provision whatsoever for any penalty if you board or alight from a train not specified to allow it, and have held this view for a very long time.

I long ago concluded that pick up/set down only timetable annotations are now merely advisory, in effect meaning that the railway makes no promise that you'll be able to get on or off (as the case may be) the service at that time and location, but if you are able to do so then just consider it your lucky day. (This is independent of fare and ticketing requirements, which relate only to your actual journey's intended origin and destination.)

 

[Surreytraveller]

I long ago concluded that pick up/set down only timetable annotations are now merely advisory, in effect meaning that the railway makes no promise that you'll be able to get on or off (as the case may be) the service at that time and location, but if you are able to do so then just consider it your lucky day. (This is independent of fare and ticketing requirements, which relate only to your actual journey's intended origin and destination.)

And the railway has no obligation to sort you out should a train be cancelled if you were trying to use it in those circumstances

 

[Surreytraveller]

The main issue is Avanti won't be getting any revenue from passengers boarding or alighting at Watford, unlike SWR who are the sole provider from Waterloo to Clapham.

 

[Kite159]

The main issue is Avanti won't be getting any revenue from passengers boarding or alighting at Watford, unlike SWR who are the sole provider from Waterloo to Clapham.

They wouldn't get any revenue in the brave new world as the DfT will get the vast bulk of revenue from Watford Junction - London tickets, with a small percentage for TfL to allow for those who decide to ride the stopper end to end

 

[AlterEgo]

The main issue is Avanti won't be getting any revenue from passengers boarding or alighting at Watford, unlike SWR who are the sole provider from Waterloo to Clapham.

That’s not an issue at all. Ticket validity and the right of carriage doesn’t depend whatsoever on whether the train company happens to obtain revenue from your ticket.

 

[xotGD]

The Class 67 hauled service into Manchester in the morning used to be set down only at Oxford Road. Presumably to prevent cranks from doing desperate red pen moves. Or more likely to reduce dwell time in the station.

 

[WizCastro197]

Hull Trains & Lumo at Stevenage (pick up only heading north, set down only heading towards London)

Bolton on TPE (pick up only heading towards Preston, set down only towards Manchester) (also at Haymarket)

Mainline SWR services at Clapham Junction, some peak time services also pick up only at Woking.

GA Norwich services pick up only at Stratford, although they show as set down only heading towards London they get advertised, I believe in the past during the AM peak more London bound GA services were set down only at Stratford due to overcrowding on P9/P10.

Late night services on some routes are set down only for the last train, mix of the timetable being timed for potential engineering works so the trains can run early (thinking about LNER) or to assist with replacement buses if the last train gets cancelled or replaced by a bus

Woking I can’t understand too much? I can completely understand Clapham but Woking a lot of people live there and not many people would really want to take a slow train from London in the Evening. Thankfully it’s only at peaks

 

[DelayRepay]

The main issue is Avanti won't be getting any revenue from passengers boarding or alighting at Watford, unlike SWR who are the sole provider from Waterloo to Clapham.

But they don't get any revenue because they don't accept passengers. If they decided to accept passengers for those journeys, then they'd surely receive a share of the fares. I understand why they don't wish to convey people between Euston and Watford Junction, but to say it's due to not receiving revenue is a circular argument.

 

[Segedunum]

Under no* circumstances will you be permitted to board a southbound Avanti at Watford Junction. It is also fairly unlikely that you would get away with it even if you had a technically valid ticket like an ALR.

You may get away with it if they don't see you, but they probably will, and if they do they will delay the train while they remove you.



You may break your journey but may resume it only using LNR or LO services.

* Well, almost none. It's not totally unknown in very severe disruption, but it's probably happened single-figure numbers of times ever.

Back in 2017 I was in a rush to get to Euston while on an ALR (this was in Virgin days) and and a set-down only train was the next one in on the platform at Watford Junction.

I asked the dispatcher if this would be fine as my ticket was technically valid back from Coventry. She didn't see a problem and the TM didn't see any issue either and encouraged me to get on.

I appreciate that might be a rarity but it can happen where a ticket is technically valid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But they don't get any revenue because they don't accept passengers. If they decided to accept passengers for those journeys, then they'd surely receive a share of the fares. I understand why they don't wish to convey people between Euston and Watford Junction, but to say it's due to not receiving revenue is a circular argument.

InterCity services have not for years carried passengers for that journey, quite possibly right back since InterCity was a thing. I suspect people have largely forgotten the original thought process!

 

[Kite159]

Woking I can’t understand too much? I can completely understand Clapham but Woking a lot of people live there and not many people would really want to take a slow train from London in the Evening. Thankfully it’s only at peaks

It's to try and prevent all those Woking passengers from boarding long distance services when they have alternative trains.

Although at those alternatives are normally 3+2 seated trains they make a beeline for the 2+2 seated trains

 

[swt_passenger]

Woking I can’t understand too much? I can completely understand Clapham but Woking a lot of people live there and not many people would really want to take a slow train from London in the Evening. Thankfully it’s only at peaks

IIRC the Woking pickup only restrictions in the down direction were only in the West of England DMU operated services, there were still a number of other “fast“ services with greater capacity, eg the Portsmouths and alternate Weymouths. Also the “semifast” services to Southampton and to Portsmouth via Eastleigh, and some Basingstokes, were still fast trains as far as Woking. So it’s not a case of being limited to slow trains at all.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Does anyone consciously use fast SWR services to get to CLJ.

I often do, if I'm using Oyster and wanted to get a ride on a Class 159.

Never had ticket checks in that section.

Although as Yorkie says in his post, I don't think the general public would do that as it's unadvertised. I usually check the SWR app or RTT to confirm that the train stops at Clapham before boarding.

 

[JonathanH]

The services from platform 7 at Clapham Junction don't appear on the summary of next services to Waterloo, or on the display on the overbridge entrance to platform 7 but do appear on the information displays on platform 7 itself.

Definitely fair game to board them but SWR (and its predecessors) think it better if passengers go to platforms 3/4 and 10 for a more frequent service.

 

[WizCastro197]

I often do, if I'm using Oyster and wanted to get a ride on a Class 159.

Never had ticket checks in that section.

Although as Yorkie says in his post, I don't think the general public would do that as it's unadvertised. I usually check the SWR app or RTT to confirm that the train stops at Clapham before boarding.

Yes 159s are nice trains went from one from Basingstoke-Reading

Yes at Waterloo all say they don't stop but some actually do and there is those that don't stop.

But I would've thought it is more frequent for a fast train not to stop at CLJ in the UP direction as you have that Free Platform 8