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Petrol panic buying

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Gostav

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Given the amount of labour saving technology that's been invented over the past couple of hundred years, we shouldn't need an ever growing population to maintain living standards.

Where is that wealth going.
I think there are many questions in Britain, for example, why still have so many mechanical signal boxes on the mainline? Why in Sheffield, Blackpool and Birmingham still have conductors on each tram for ticket selling?
 
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yorksrob

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I think there are many questions in Britain, for example, why still have so many mechanical signal boxes on the mainline? Why in Sheffield, Blackpool and Birmingham still have conductors on each tram for ticket selling?

To be fair to the railway, the number of staff has reduced over the years and those remaining have received a dividend of wealth in terms of higher wages.

Can the same be said of truck driving I wonder !
 

Pit_buzzer

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So we're going to have the reserve fleet of tankers mobilised driven by civilian drivers... Now I'm confused, I thought it was drivers we were short of not tankers!
 

brad465

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So we're going to have the reserve fleet of tankers mobilised driven by civilian drivers... Now I'm confused, I thought it was drivers we were short of not tankers!
Yes I saw this and wondered how on earth it's possible to forget something like that exists, and why they weren't deployed as soon as things started kicking off???
 

yorkie

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In secondary schools today they push kids into Media Studies, Arts, Photography, Dance etc instead of Science simply because that's what teachers they have....
There should definitely be changes but the above statement is untrue. No-one is forced to do media studies, arts, photography, dance etc at GCSE level at any sensible school, and certainly none that I know of. In contrast, Science is compulsory. I would suggest any further discussion on this is made truthfully, accurately and also in a separate thread.

On the subject of petrol panic buying, I have no interest in driving a car myself, but I was given a lift (5 people in the car, so pretty efficient) and this involved going past a petrol station on the York outer ring road at approx 6:30pm and the place seemed empty; a cursory glance suggested they had no fuel but it wasn't obvious from my viewpoint. Going back around 9pm it clearly did have fuel and did look to be very busy but the queues were short. That's the only petrol station I've seen recently.
 

Islineclear3_1

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Wife queued for an hour at 5am this morning for fuel as she had about 23 miles left in the tank (round trip to work/home = 80 miles). Fortunately, a petrol tanker had arrived and was discharging its load. She was restricted to £30 but she was happy as it normally costs her £35 to fill up.

Had she not been able to obtain fuel, she would not have been able to work and her patients would have had no visits today

Petrol station opposite my hospital shut with no news of when next tanker will arrive.
 

reddragon

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Wife queued for an hour at 5am this morning for fuel as she had about 23 miles left in the tank (round trip to work/home = 80 miles). Fortunately, a petrol tanker had arrived and was discharging its load. She was restricted to £30 but she was happy as it normally costs her £35 to fill up.

Had she not been able to obtain fuel, she would not have been able to work and her patients would have had no visits today

Petrol station opposite my hospital shut with no news of when next tanker will arrive.
I think that key people should be given priority passes for all matter of services when events are triggered.
 

dk1

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I’m just sitting back with the popcorn on this one. Got over half a tank & dont need the car until w/c 11th October & then only 20 miles that week. Bus/train will do nicely until then & hopefully the drama will have abated.
 

reddragon

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There should definitely be changes but the above statement is untrue. No-one is forced to do media studies, arts, photography, dance etc at GCSE level at any sensible school, and certainly none that I know of. In contrast, Science is compulsory. I would suggest any further discussion on this is made truthfully, accurately and also in a separate thread.

On the subject of petrol panic buying, I have no interest in driving a car myself, but I was given a lift (5 people in the car, so pretty efficient) and this involved going past a petrol station on the York outer ring road at approx 6:30pm and the place seemed empty; a cursory glance suggested they had no fuel but it wasn't obvious from my viewpoint. Going back around 9pm it clearly did have fuel and did look to be very busy but the queues were short. That's the only petrol station I've seen recently.
When I lived in London I had no use for a car, but now living in a rural area I have no choice since the bus services faded away.
 

duncanp

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When I lived in London I had no use for a car, but now living in a rural area I have no choice since the bus services faded away.

Some fool is suggesting that a mobile phone App is developed which enables people to see how long the queue is at various petrol stations in the area. (Quite how the App would know in real time how many cars are in the queue is beyond me)

This would be counterproductive, as people would rush to the nearest petrol station with fuel available, which would then mean that it would sell out of fuel more quickly.

In any case, if the App shows there is no queue at a particular petrol station, does that mean it is open and has fuel available (but with no queue) or does it mean that the petrol station is shut because they have run out of fuel?
 

ChiefPlanner

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Can personally manage without a car , but as my wife is an on call NHS worker and does clinics etc in nearby settlements , it is somewhat important. Be a bit tricky on a bicycle as in days of yore.

Anyway - a quarter tank was augmented to a full tank today , with no problem and a well organised queuing system - should be fine now for at least a fortnight.

(just awaiting the next crisis this government will deliver)
 

skyhigh

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In my area (West&North Yorks) the BP petrol station round the corner from me has been closed every time I've passed. The other local stations either have nothing or are fairly busy. It took a colleague 5 attempts to find a petrol station with fuel last night after leaving work.
 

Peter Sarf

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This article from The Telegraph is interesting

It says we are paying the price for pushing young people towards university education, and that the lack of manual workers in the population has been concealed by people coming from the EU.

It says we need to value manual work more, rather than pushing young people into irrelevant Mickey Mouse university degrees where the skills acquired are of no use in subsequent employment.

Indeed it does young people no good if they go on a unversity course, saddle themselves with a large student debt, and then cannot use their university degree to find suitable employment.


In secondary schools today they push kids into Media Studies, Arts, Photography, Dance etc instead of Science simply because that's what teachers they have. The education system has no capacity to teach a trade until College.

My local College is still teaching kids car mechanics for ICE cars when the industry is crying out for EV training. Sounds like a bit of joined up thinking maybe required!
There is a conflict to resolve. Education is geared up to a progression through Further Education to University. The majority of pupils do not need that and commerce needs different skills.
Well its good they are pushing kids into media studies considering how big the media industry is in this country, but i suspect that wasn't your point. :rolleyes:
Like !.
The vast majority of those who study media do not go into the industry, over 99% I think I read once, similar for those who train as equine vets. Engineering students on the other hand and trades find job offers being thrown at them.
Further Education for most is maybe a way of keeping them off the streets. Yes it does not matter what they study as many believe they can become sports/film/football stars. Which, of course, leads the majority to end up feeling like failures. The media re-enforces that by only hailing stars not mundane workers. All part of the consumerist society.
Yes we have a pyramid scheme economic model which relies on immigration to make up the shortfall in our falling domestic birth rates needed to keep the growth going, not just in GDP, but also increasing the workforce numbers to keep paying tax to prop up the state pension model. This is not unique to us, most western economies are in the same boat, some ahead of us, some behind us. Even China is now having problems with working age population due to its long lived one child policy.

I think the shortages, including in petrol, are a subliminal message saying that maybe we're demanding too much for the population of our size and what labour the population can carry out, as you allude to with exploiting immigrants.
No - If you double the population then you double the labour supply and double the demand. Limiting factor is the SIZE OF THE PLANET. Also its a bit more complicated because a growing population infers a majority of young people to support the old people. If the population is falling then the old people become a growing burden on young people. Add into the equation that people are living a lot longer then that means older people are an increasing proportion of the population despite moderate growth.

But the poor old planet and its resources (like oil) is not getting bigger. So what I hear you say ? - all we need to do is find another planet........
Meanwhile, back on topic...

I needed to buy fuel tonight (long journey tomorrow) - I drove to the petrol station, waited behind one car, then filled up as normal. Drove past another petrol station on the way home - that had a short queue.

Crisis over.
Its what I expected/hoped this week as there is only so much fuel people can panic buy and hoard. It is not like toilet rolls which can be stored in every room of the house, shed and garage.
So we're going to have the reserve fleet of tankers mobilised driven by civilian drivers... Now I'm confused, I thought it was drivers we were short of not tankers!
Sounds like a gesture to calm the panic buyers down. Which might work - oh have I blown it now.
There should definitely be changes but the above statement is untrue. No-one is forced to do media studies, arts, photography, dance etc at GCSE level at any sensible school, and certainly none that I know of. In contrast, Science is compulsory. I would suggest any further discussion on this is made truthfully, accurately and also in a separate thread.

On the subject of petrol panic buying, I have no interest in driving a car myself, but I was given a lift (5 people in the car, so pretty efficient) and this involved going past a petrol station on the York outer ring road at approx 6:30pm and the place seemed empty; a cursory glance suggested they had no fuel but it wasn't obvious from my viewpoint. Going back around 9pm it clearly did have fuel and did look to be very busy but the queues were short. That's the only petrol station I've seen recently.
The petrol station near me (a few blocks away) was closed all day Tuesday - I could tell because there was no sound of car & lorry horns blowing.
I’m just sitting back with the popcorn on this one. Got over half a tank & dont need the car until w/c 11th October & then only 20 miles that week. Bus/train will do nicely until then & hopefully the drama will have abated.
Same here as I was waiting until nearer mid October for the next rip to Cardiff. Expecting it to blow over this week. But I chickened out yesterday because of the rumours that a £30 cap will be put on. That means I would need to make two visits.
When I lived in London I had no use for a car, but now living in a rural area I have no choice since the bus services faded away.
Yes. I feel lucky that I live in London (sometimes).
Some fool is suggesting that a mobile phone App is developed which enables people to see how long the queue is at various petrol stations in the area. (Quite how the App would know in real time how many cars are in the queue is beyond me)

This would be counterproductive, as people would rush to the nearest petrol station with fuel available, which would then mean that it would sell out of fuel more quickly.

In any case, if the App shows there is no queue at a particular petrol station, does that mean it is open and has fuel available (but with no queue) or does it mean that the petrol station is shut because they have run out of fuel?
Yes - that app will not reduce the fuel panic it will just exacerbate the problem. Also my local Petrol Station generated a mile (approx) long queue. But most of the vehicles in it were waiting to get past the fuel queue. This crisis really has snarled up the traffic I have even seen a queue down the wrong side of the road !.
 

MattRat

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To be fair to the railway, the number of staff has reduced over the years and those remaining have received a dividend of wealth in terms of higher wages.

Can the same be said of truck driving I wonder !
Well it wouldn't matter regardless. There are bigger issues than pay.
 

Mat17

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I think there are many questions in Britain, for example, why still have so many mechanical signal boxes on the mainline? Why in Sheffield, Blackpool and Birmingham still have conductors on each tram for ticket selling?
I can't speak for Blackpool or Birmingham, but comparing Sheffield's trams to Manchester's. I've always felt totally safe and at ease on the Sheffield trams, because of staff presence. My experiences on Manchester trams are more varied. Some have been fine, others less so, including several full on fights - middle of the day mind. The lack of conductor presence makes the experience edgy. I think I'll go to Bury on the bus next time.
 

Mojo

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Has anyone seen this situation getting better in their local area despite what the media & politicians are claiming?

The queues weren't that bad in my local area on Friday of last week. On Monday morning when I walked to the station just before 6 there was a huge queue despite the petrol station not being open. On my walk back from the hairdressers on Tuesday the queues weren't too bad (looked about 10 Min long) at the two petrol stations I walked past [I also walked past a third one that was completely closed]. This morning they're the longest that I've seen yet, although all 3 petrol stations are fully open.

I'm very lucky that we don't rely on our vehicle for work; only really use it for going to see family (longdistance trips, or going to the garden centre or animal supply shops)
 

duncanp

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I can't speak for Blackpool or Birmingham, but comparing Sheffield's trams to Manchester's. I've always felt totally safe and at ease on the Sheffield trams, because of staff presence. My experiences on Manchester trams are more varied. Some have been fine, others less so, including several full on fights - middle of the day mind. The lack of conductor presence makes the experience edgy. I think I'll go to Bury on the bus next time.

Not all Birmingham trams have conductors.

If there are staff shortages, they will often send out a tram in service with just a driver, which of course results in people getting to ride for free.

A staff presence does reduce the incidence and likelihood of anti-social behaviour, even if it does not eliminate it entirely.
 

Mojo

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Some fool is suggesting that a mobile phone App is developed which enables people to see how long the queue is at various petrol stations in the area. (Quite how the App would know in real time how many cars are in the queue is beyond me)
Someone developed a "Supermarket Check In" App last spring back when queuing was commonplace to get in to supermarkets.

I installed it but soon discovered it wasn't very useful because it was very basic, purely relying on the number of people that used it inputting crowding data. Something like this would better be developed by organisations like Google who have a very large userbase, passive tracking, sensors, estimates based on historical data, etc.
 

dk1

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I can't speak for Blackpool or Birmingham, but comparing Sheffield's trams to Manchester's. I've always felt totally safe and at ease on the Sheffield trams, because of staff presence. My experiences on Manchester trams are more varied. Some have been fine, others less so, including several full on fights - middle of the day mind. The lack of conductor presence makes the experience edgy. I think I'll go to Bury on the bus next time.
I was so disappointed when conductors where removed from Nottingham. Sheffield, Edinburgh & Blackpool are particularly welcoming to see them. East Croydon & Manchester always make me wonder the actual revenue loss even though I wouldn’t dream of boarding without a valid ticket & would hope most people act in a similar way. I’ve used Birmingham a few times but cannot honestly remember if they have conductors onboard.
 

Typhoon

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Former Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage has said he was hit by a van during a desperate search for petrol on Thursday. The Brexit campaigner slated the Government's handling of the UK's ongoing petrol crisis in a furious tweet. Mr Farage raged: "The Government tell us that the fuel crisis is easing.

"I went to 7 petrol stations this morning and there was no fuel at any of them.

"Was then hit by a van whilst stationary at a roundabout. Great start to the day!"
I suspect a GBNews presenter will have no shortage of material for his evening programme. If I was a government minister, I would not be available for interview for the next 36 hours.

Source: Nigel Farage hit by a van at a roundabout while on desperate search for petrol (msn.com)

Similar note:
The government has advised councils not to use the phrases "panic" or "panic buying" about fuel supply problems, documents seen by the BBC reveal.
Slides prepared by the Cabinet Office's Behavioural Science Team also advised against using language that morally judges people buying petrol.
The government should start with its own ministers and backbenchers. Those wishing to comply should be advised that there are lists of synonyms online.

Source: Don't say 'panic' amid fuel crisis, Cabinet Office warns councils - BBC News
 

Mat17

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East Croydon & Manchester always make me wonder the actual revenue loss even though I wouldn’t dream of boarding without a valid ticket & would hope most people act in a similar way.
Oh there's definitely revenue loss. I've been on many trams where inspectors have boarded and caught people. They used to regularly get on at that staff only stop between Man Vic and Queens Road on the Bury line, which was genius really, as the fare evaders couldn't run to another door to escape even if they did see them.
 

dk1

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They used to regularly get on at that staff only stop between Man Vic and Queens Road on the Bury line, which was genius really, as the fare evaders couldn't run to another door to escape even if they did see them.
I like that :D
 

Bald Rick

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Has anyone seen this situation getting better in their local area despite what the media & politicians are claiming?

The queues weren't that bad in my local area on Friday of last week. On Monday morning when I walked to the station just before 6 there was a huge queue despite the petrol station not being open. On my walk back from the hairdressers on Tuesday the queues weren't too bad (looked about 10 Min long) at the two petrol stations I walked past [I also walked past a third one that was completely closed]. This morning they're the longest that I've seen yet, although all 3 petrol stations are fully open.

I'm very lucky that we don't rely on our vehicle for work; only really use it for going to see family (longdistance trips, or going to the garden centre or animal supply shops)

Back to normal in St Albans this morning. All four petrol stations near me had fuel, no queues to speak of, and no restrictions on quantities.
 

Busaholic

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#thoughtsandprayers for the van driver.
Seem to remember the pilot of the light plane that was hired by Farage for a publicity stunt (unbelievable, but true :D) during the 2017 General Election described his treatment after the resulting 'accident' as appalling, with Farage trying to pin all the blame on him. If anyone should be apologising to the nation(s) now it's Farage the fantasist.
 

Darandio

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Now I wonder if that BP exec got a big bonus for increasing sales & profit this month?

What next?

View attachment 103294

The clothing store Next. Warns that prices will increase at Christmas, everyone flocks there now before prices go up and they get rid of the mountains of stock that have built up over the past 18-24 months. Great tactic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

My thoughts exactly regarding oil companies. Regarding alcohol though, would we really notice a difference in the UK? People already have a massive drinking problem...

Well yeah. If as you suggest that there is a massive drinking problem in the country then any real shortages would surely mean people notice the difference?
 

Ediswan

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Seem to remember the pilot of the light plane that was hired by Farage for a publicity stunt (unbelievable, but true :D) during the 2017 General Election described his treatment after the resulting 'accident' as appalling, with Farage trying to pin all the blame on him. If anyone should be apologising to the nation(s) now it's Farage the fantasist.
The banner towing crash was in 2010.
 
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