Pendolino Refurbishment?

[8J]

Well I would say if your idea of a nice train is a metal tube with no windows because you are afraid of sunlight then maybe you need to get outside more anyway enough with the insults.....

Besides new trains are now coming with sun blinds.

I might also point out that it is possible to provide big windows with blinds for those of us who are odd and like natural light and to see the world going by and still provide facilities for media devices like power sockets and wifi.

I actually think it is quite selfish to say that there should be small windows if any windows at all just because you don't like natural light!

There is nothing more annoying than the sun setting right in your eyes, especially when you are trying to do something as simple as sleep. Give it a rest with the stupid comments about windows!

The Pendo's have their faults yes, such as uncomfortable seats, bad air con, but they're a damn sight better than the PEP units I work on which have huge windows!!!

So I don't get out enough? You really are an excuse of a person with comments like that!

I don't use my "media devices" as you call them (actually called PED's) on train journeys, I do look out of the window and read the paper in the old fashioned way, but your issue with the window size is trully stupid!! They are big enough! Now if they had the same window size as a Boeing 737, then I'd have an issue.

But the way that you are posting on this thread is totally immature. The pendo is not a "metal tube with no windows". Maybe you need to stop exaggerating the truth!

Fin :?

 

[Aictos]

Those are all things that could be fitted in a refurbishment rather than being exclusive to 168s...

I know, I'm just saying at the moment I prefer the 168s for their interiors but also as they're 4 coaches....

 

[Dave1987]

There is nothing more annoying than the sun setting right in your eyes, especially when you are trying to do something as simple as sleep. Give it a rest with the stupid comments about windows!

The Pendo's have their faults yes, such as uncomfortable seats, bad air con, but they're a damn sight better than the PEP units I work on which have huge windows!!!

So I don't get out enough? You really are an excuse of a person with comments like that!

I don't use my "media devices" as you call them (actually called PED's) on train journeys, I do look out of the window and read the paper in the old fashioned way, but your issue with the window size is trully stupid!! They are big enough! Now if they had the same window size as a Boeing 737, then I'd have an issue.

But the way that you are posting on this thread is totally immature. The pendo is not a "metal tube with no windows". Maybe you need to stop exaggerating the truth!

Fin :?

I'm sorry but your comment to me was if I want bigger windows then I should go to Everest instead of on a train! And I'm an "an excuse of a person" to respond? I think the only thing the pendo's are good for is the scrap heap, you happen to think differently. How is my quarrel with the window size "truly stupid"? Every other train on the network has decent sized windows!! They may be fine for you but I think they are ghastly horrible trains and I honestly hope they disappear from the network completely! There are much much better designs of trains out there, the desiro's are a prime example!

 

[8J]

I'm sorry but your comment to me was if I want bigger windows then I should go to Everest instead of on a train! And I'm an "an excuse of a person" to respond? I think the only thing the pendo's are good for is the scrap heap, you happen to think differently. How is my quarrel with the window size "truly stupid"? Every other train on the network has decent sized windows!! They may be fine for you but I think they are ghastly horrible trains and I honestly hope they disappear from the network completely! There are much much better designs of trains out there, the desiro's are a prime example!

My comment about Everest windows was light sarcasm, "you need to get out more" is a step too further Dave...

I agree that there are better trains out there, but window size? As I said, I'd understand if it was a boeing 737 size windows, but the pendo windows are a fair size. That's why your comment is trully stupid. I want to see the back of voyagers myself, I hope Pendos are around for at least another 30 years! If you don't like them, why moan on this thread? I don't moan excessively on Voyager threads!?

 

[jon0844]

What's the problem with the windows when you can book a seat in advance that has a window?

If you travel every day on them, you might not reserve a seat but you'll already know which seats to make for.

So, really, what's the big deal? I'm sure there are now enough people happy to go without a window as they're not planning to look out anyway, and, to be honest, even if you don't have a window next to you, if you want to see out you can easily look around or even get out of your seat.

 

[Dave1987]

My comment about Everest windows was light sarcasm, "you need to get out more" is a step too further Dave...

I agree that there are better trains out there, but window size? As I said, I'd understand if it was a boeing 737 size windows, but the pendo windows are a fair size. That's why your comment is trully stupid. I want to see the back of voyagers myself, I hope Pendos are around for at least another 30 years! If you don't like them, why moan on this thread? I don't moan excessively on Voyager threads!?

I used to work on aircraft for a living before becoming a driver, there is a very specific reason the windows on any aircraft are small, due to the fact the cabin has to be pressurised. All other trains have decent sized windows so I see no reason why the couldn't have made them a decent size. I apologise for any offence I caused. I have made my point so won't moan any more.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What's the problem with the windows when you can book a seat in advance that has a window?

If you travel every day on them, you might not reserve a seat but you'll already know which seats to make for.

So, really, what's the big deal? I'm sure there are now enough people happy to go without a window as they're not planning to look out anyway, and, to be honest, even if you don't have a window next to you, if you want to see out you can easily look around or even get out of your seat.

Problem is the windows are so tiny if you can't see out if you are standing up. The windows are usually on table seats and everyone wants a table seat. Anyway I have said my piece and that is that.

 

[ainsworth74]

I know, I'm just saying at the moment I prefer the 168s for their interiors but also as they're 4 coaches....

Ah right, reading comprehension fail on my part it seems

 

[snail]

Problem is the windows are so tiny if you can't see out if you are standing up.

I can't recall the last time I saw people standing inside the carriages. Lots congregating around the vestibule, which has very large windows in each door as I recall. It's pretty much the same as any crowded train. I couldn't see much when standing on a 150 followed by a 185 today until I got near the doors.

Just accept it's not going to change and get over it.

 

[jon0844]

Problem is the windows are so tiny if you can't see out if you are standing up. The windows are usually on table seats and everyone wants a table seat. Anyway I have said my piece and that is that.

I am fortune enough to have never travelled on a service so busy that I've had to stand OR I've been able to get to the train quick enough and get a seat before the train filled up (having got on at Euston). I am sure if a train is so busy you have to stand, you'd struggle to get a good view outside anyway.

I prefer airline seats, and have simply booked ones that have a window. To be honest, given the fact I'm one of those people glued to my smartphone for most travelling, I should really be polite and reserve one without the window view!

 

[8J]

I used to work on aircraft for a living before becoming a driver, there is a very specific reason the windows on any aircraft are small, due to the fact the cabin has to be pressurised. All other trains have decent sized windows so I see no reason why the couldn't have made them a decent size. I apologise for any offence I caused. I have made my point so won't moan any more.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Problem is the windows are so tiny if you can't see out if you are standing up. The windows are usually on table seats and everyone wants a table seat. Anyway I have said my piece and that is that.

I trained to be a pilot, but had a late change of heart and got a job on Merseyrail. Generally speaking, the 507/8's were nice trains to work on. A bit on the old and tatty side, but generally ok. I wonder what it is like to work on the 390's?

 

[Wolfie]

I'm sorry but your comment to me was if I want bigger windows then I should go to Everest instead of on a train! And I'm an "an excuse of a person" to respond? I think the only thing the pendo's are good for is the scrap heap, you happen to think differently. How is my quarrel with the window size "truly stupid"? Every other train on the network has decent sized windows!! They may be fine for you but I think they are ghastly horrible trains and I honestly hope they disappear from the network completely! There are much much better designs of trains out there, the desiro's are a prime example!

my bold

Congratulations for the most assine comment I have ever seen on these boards. Let's scrap several hundred million pounds worth of trains just because you think they should have bigger windows! Methinks there are many other much higher priorities for replacement than the Pendos.

Not only are Desiros designed for a completely different role but, as many have pointed out on this forum, the seats are like concrete and the conditions on the 3+2 350/2s are pretty grim. But you like them so thats ok! Talk about opinionated drivel.....

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'm sorry but your comment to me was if I want bigger windows then I should go to Everest instead of on a train! And I'm an "an excuse of a person" to respond? I think the only thing the pendo's are good for is the scrap heap, you happen to think differently. How is my quarrel with the window size "truly stupid"? Every other train on the network has decent sized windows!! They may be fine for you but I think they are ghastly horrible trains and I honestly hope they disappear from the network completely! There are much much better designs of trains out there, the desiro's are a prime example!

I think that comment about the scrapheap is OTT. Aside from the window and the toilets, the Pendos are a good unit. They're not to my taste personally, but they do their job and do it well.

 

[Dave1987]

Well if we all had the same opinion about things then the world would be a dull place. Anyway I can use chilterns service to Birmingham instead, I might take 20 mins longer but their trains are far more comfortable and a nice environment to be in. I don't have to travel on pendo's thankfully. If you like pendo's you are welcome to them, I just hope the current design is kept to the WCML so I don't have to travel on them. Like I said I've said my piece and that is that!

 

[Manchester77]

Good to know but this is a thread about pendolino refurbishment not your opinions on the trains and their windows

 

[Geezertronic]

Love them, hate them, or a bit inbetween, their impact on the WCML cannot be underestimated. You wouldn't get the current service with the stock they replaced. Given the options from Birmingham with Chiltern, LM and VT I always pick VT as the quicker of the three - plus the location of Euston is better than Marylebone for me

Back on topic, just get rid of the rattles during any refurb and I'll he happy. I've said that before but it got lost in the pendo bashing comments

 

[Trog]

I must admit that I don't like the Pendolinos myself, a lot of niggly things uncomfortable seats, dim lighting, all that sticky pale brown plastic, the sometimes nauseating smell in the vestibules, and that you need a window seat for the added width gained by resting your arm on the window cill. It used to make my day if my train home was replaced by the Pretendolino, with its comfy armchair seats and the brighter lighting given by the larger windows.

I doubt the refurbishment will be much more than cosmetic, probably just scraping up the current vestibule carpets and laying more.

 

[snail]

You're right about the rattles. I was on one this afternoon and was thinking that for a 15 year old train they still have the appearance of a contemporary design, windows and all. Tidy up the scruffiness here and there, get rid of the rattles and smells and they are good for a good few years yet before the scrapheap .

 

[pt_mad]

I know its been suggested by many people before but wouldn't a refurb which included entire new lower seats be an ideal to increase natural light?

Seats as low as the original mk3 seats? That way those who didn't have a widow could look out of other windows.

 

[Blindtraveler]

not crashworthy surely?

 

[pt_mad]

not crashworthy surely?

Can't give an expert opinion but they were approved up to 125 in mk3s so why not Pendos?

 

[ainsworth74]

Because what was considered crash-worthy in the 1970s is not in 2013. Standards for both the structure of trains and the interior fittings of trains have moved on considerably since the Mk3s were built, indeed you couldn't build new Mk3s now because they wouldn't meet modern regulations for the building of trains, similarly you couldn't fit new IC70s (the seats in Mk3s originally) to new vehicles because again they wouldn't meet modern standards for both crash-worthiness and accessibility.

 

[pt_mad]

Ok well that's me told lol.

Are they any lower seats that are approved for high speed running?

 

[edwin_m]

A higher seat will restrain the heads of passengers in a collision, so basically a higher seat is more crashworthy than a lower seat. Whether this is actually justifiable, given the very small number of crashes where it might make a difference, is open to question.

 

[jon0844]

Are they any lower seats that are approved for high speed running?

I'd rather my seat stayed where it was!

 

[Blindtraveler]

would a vairiant of the origional MK4 seating be crashworthy now? Always liked them and appreciative as I was of most of the Malard upgrade the seating replacement was not welcomed here.

 

[Geezertronic]

I can't see that the costs to completely replace all of the seats in a 9 car 390 would be considered viable enough to even be considered.

 

[jon0844]

What exactly needs to be changed on a 390 when they're not that old? New carpets, seat covers, cleaning extractors and heater covers, plus some new paint would surely be all that's required, along with an overhaul of the air conditioning - although I'd hope that's done fairly regularly anyway?

 

[pt_mad]

What exactly needs to be changed on a 390 when they're not that old? New carpets, seat covers, cleaning extractors and heater covers, plus some new paint would surely be all that's required, along with an overhaul of the air conditioning - although I'd hope that's done fairly regularly anyway?

Essentially yes but if they were going to go the whole hog and sort out the lack of daylight/windows/cramped issues seats could be a possibility. Just saying.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the visual impression of cramped-ness is mainly down to structural elements that they can't change, though it would help if they replaced the dark red and cream by something a bit lighter and fresher. This is different from the Voyager, which in the form of a Meridian appears a lot more spacious even though the bodyshell cross-section is identical.

 

[starrymarkb]

Can't give an expert opinion but they were approved up to 125 in mk3s so why not Pendos?

Because what was considered crash-worthy in the 1970s is not in 2013. Standards for both the structure of trains and the interior fittings of trains have moved on considerably since the Mk3s were built, indeed you couldn't build new Mk3s now because they wouldn't meet modern regulations for the building of trains, similarly you couldn't fit new IC70s (the seats in Mk3s originally) to new vehicles because again they wouldn't meet modern standards for both crash-worthiness and accessibility.

Current designs are designed to provide survival space as well as preventing whiplash. Similarly the move to metal seat backs is based around experience with the HST crashes during the 1990s. A lot of injuries in the Ufton Nervet Crash were from shrapnel from broken IC70 seats. The metal backs as well as being stronger will bend before they break...