Pendolino problems: were they inevitable?

[DarloRich]

I believe VW119 is still the longest diagram in the UK, at almost 1400 miles. VTEC has a few over 1000, but I don't think anything comparable?

What run is that? Glasgow - Euston - Preston - Euston?

 

[Mordac]

Am I the only one here who finds them comfortable then?

Personally I think they’re decent, comfortable units and I enjoy the long distance trips on them.

Nope, I like them a lot. Especially the free booze in first class!

Had a really enjoyable journey in one at dinner time from Glasgow to Rugby. For those who keep comparing British trains to ICEs, one thing I definitely find superior on Virgin is the first class catering. That on the ICE was really disappointing IMO.

Even for more mundane journeys in standard, I liked them when commuting from Edinburgh to Lancaster, though would have preferred if they had doors at 2/3rds

 

[Domh245]

What run is that? Glasgow - Euston - Preston - Euston?

Euston - Liverpool - Euston - Glasgow - Euston - Manchester

Source

 

[cactustwirly]

I think half the problem is the crap interior Virgin specified.
If the interior was completed stripped out, and better seats, lighting etc were installed then they wouldn't be so bad.

 

[DarloRich]

Euston - Liverpool - Euston - Glasgow - Euston - Manchester

Source

thanks! never doubted the operational or mechanical or financial advances of the Pendolino. I just wish the same effort went into the insides!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What run is that? Glasgow - Euston - Preston - Euston?

VTEC must have a similar capability with IC225, especially now there are more Edinburgh/Leeds trips.
HSTs won't come close if they go off the wires anywhere.
Eurostar sets must also have at least that capability, but whether they actually diagram the units that intensively I don't know.

 

[E_Reeves]

Am I the only one here who finds them comfortable then?

Personally I think they’re decent, comfortable units and I enjoy the long distance trips on them.

Going to agree with you there. A very enjoyable train to ride on and great for long journies. My last long distance to Carlisle was probably the comfiest train journey I've had and I had no issue with the windows. I was also surprised how the journey flew by. I have no issues with these units as a passenger.

 

[delt1c]

The Pendo 1st class is one of the best I have used (except the single seat which is shown as window when booking but is by a solid wall. Standard is comfortable bbut if you are unlucky enough to get an airline seat with no window is clostrophobic and cramped.
Have used the continental equivelents many times and they really show the UK Pendo's faults. Far superior

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

For those wanting to know the specific diagram for the longest Pendolino journey, the diagram looks something like this:

5F10: 04:22 Wembley InterCity Depot to London Euston
1F10: 05:27 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street
1A15: 08:47 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston
1S85: 11:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central
1M17: 16:40 Glasgow Central to London Euston
1H14: 23:00 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly
5H14: 02:20 Manchester Piccadilly to Longsight Car. M.D.

With about 10 miles from Wembley to Euston, 193 miles each way from Euston to Liverpool, 401 miles each way from Euston to Glasgow, 161 miles from Euston to Manchester, and the 1 to 3 miles to Longsight, it adds up to about 1,360 miles covered in a single day.

 

[I13]

For those wanting to know the specific diagram for the longest Pendolino journey, the diagram looks something like this:

5F10: 04:22 Wembley InterCity Depot to London Euston
1F10: 05:27 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street
1A15: 08:47 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston
1S85: 11:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central
1M17: 16:40 Glasgow Central to London Euston
1H14: 23:00 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly
5H14: 02:20 Manchester Piccadilly to Longsight Car. M.D.

With about 10 miles from Wembley to Euston, 193 miles each way from Euston to Liverpool, 401 miles each way from Euston to Glasgow, 161 miles from Euston to Manchester, and the 1 to 3 miles to Longsight, it adds up to about 1,360 miles covered in a single day.

There's a good article about this particular diagram here.

 

[EE Andy b1]

For those wanting to know the specific diagram for the longest Pendolino journey, the diagram looks something like this:

5F10: 04:22 Wembley InterCity Depot to London Euston
1F10: 05:27 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street
1A15: 08:47 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston
1S85: 11:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central
1M17: 16:40 Glasgow Central to London Euston
1H14: 23:00 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly
5H14: 02:20 Manchester Piccadilly to Longsight Car. M.D.

With about 10 miles from Wembley to Euston, 193 miles each way from Euston to Liverpool, 401 miles each way from Euston to Glasgow, 161 miles from Euston to Manchester, and the 1 to 3 miles to Longsight, it adds up to about 1,360 miles covered in a single day.

Nearly correct but London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly is approx. 185 miles
Which is pretty impressive stuff and a lot of 125mph running to boot!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nearly correct but Manchester Piccadilly to Euston is about 185 miles each way. So total about 1,408 miles.
Which is pretty impressive stuff and a lot of 125mph running to boot!

The diagram shows the set is operating for more than 22 hours out of the 24.
I'm not sure the same set could do the same diagram the next day - depends on what overnight servicing it needs.
You'd also expect an HST (and an 80x bi-mode) to need more down time if it followed such a diagram.

 

[railfan100]

The fleet clocks up an impressive amount of miles no question about that but the pax experience is below par. Seats are very firm, window layout not as good as stock in mainland Europe that does travel at far higher speeds so certainly the poor layout cannot be related to impact protection measures. The toilet issue clearly is not ideal. In all from a comfort perspective they are mediocre at best compared to other fleets abroad and certainly not what I would consider high speed with the current speed and route limitation.

 

[43096]

Correct. Poor design and specification to blame. No expense was spent building a quality interior for the poor saps paying for the technological & operational improvements. I very much doubt any real work went into capturing stakeholder requirements from passengers. I bet loads went into capturing operational stakeholder requirements.

Pendolino is essentially a badly specified, badly designed and badly built train. So many flaws it is hard to believe, but not entirely surprising given Virgin was run by "bus bandit" Brian Barrett at the time and Alstom was a serial failure in train building at the time.

 

[BigCj34]

Whether the experience on a Pendolino is good or not depends on what you're comparing it to. The Pendolino is comfortable in comparison to a Sprinter but clearly that is not a valid comparison as they're for two different types of train. Compared to flying the experience is superior, at least when compared to a budget airline, as there's more legroom.

Compare a Pendolino to a TGV and they certainly come up short however. The legroom and seats are acceptable though I have seen roomier seats. The windows are inexplicably small and feels claustrophobic unless you have an unobscured window seat, which shocking seat placements mean that's not always the case. I don't have any problem with the tilting sitting down, though walking to the shop is not the easiest experience.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Lots of people in our office don’t like Pendolinos mainly due to the lack of shoulder room.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The diagram shows the set is operating for more than 22 hours out of the 24.
I'm not sure the same set could do the same diagram the next day - depends on what overnight servicing it needs.

I don't think any would be expected to - the diagram finishes in a different place from where it starts doesn't it?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Pendolino is essentially a badly specified, badly designed and badly built train. So many flaws it is hard to believe, but not entirely surprising given Virgin was run by "bus bandit" Brian Barrett at the time and Alstom was a serial failure in train building at the time.

You'd never believe such a useless train shortened all WCML journeys by about 25% would you?

 

[Bayum]

I'm looking forward to having a journey to Euston on one next week!

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don’t know a single non-enthusiast who has a bad word to say about the Pendolinos.

I concur. The non-enthusiast is almost always interested in the destination and not the train, as long as the train is reliable, on time and they can get a seat.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Am I the only one here who finds them comfortable then?

Personally I think they’re decent, comfortable units and I enjoy the long distance trips on them.

I use them on a regular basis and have no issues with them at all, although the lack of plug sockets is a bit annoying at times. That said I'm generally asleep when traveling on them. They're certainly a huge improvement on the rubbish that they replaced.

 

[MCR247]

I use them on a regular basis and have no issues with them at all, although the lack of plug sockets is a bit annoying at times. That said I'm generally asleep when traveling on them. They're certainly a huge improvement on the rubbish that they replaced.

Yeah I like them but my only issue is the lack of plugs at airline seats. The lighting could be improved too, and they could change the colour of the panelling. A nice grey maybe?

 

[fowler9]

Compared to flying the experience is superior, at least when compared to a budget airline, as there's more legroom.

Hmmm. Since you can't fly to London from most places Pendolinos stop at it is an odd comparison. Since you would have to use a private jet from most Pendolino stops I reckon the experience probably isn't superior, possibly cheaper.

 

[Idon'tKnow]

Hmmm. Since you can't fly to London from most places Pendolinos stop at it is an odd comparison. Since you would have to use a private jet from most Pendolino stops I reckon the experience probably isn't superior, possibly cheaper.

Apart from between Manchester and London, London and Glasgow, Birmingham and Glasgow and Birmingham and Edinburgh.

 

[fowler9]

Apart from between Manchester and London, London and Glasgow, Birmingham and Glasgow and Birmingham and Edinburgh.

Yeah, because Virgin Trains hardly call anywhere apart from London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester and Birmingham.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Yeah, because Virgin Trains hardly call anywhere apart from London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester and Birmingham.

They stop at Preston if that helps.

 

[Agent_Squash]

They stop at Preston if that helps.

Rumour has it they stop at Liverpool too.

 

[gsnedders]

Apart from between Manchester and London, London and Glasgow, Birmingham and Glasgow and Birmingham and Edinburgh.

What percentage of VT passengers are on those routes? (And are there really no flights from Birmingham to London? I'm somewhat surprised! Though I imagine marketshare wise rail would cover the majority.)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And are there really no flights from Birmingham to London? I'm somewhat surprised!.

No there aren't, nor from Liverpool.
There were in the past, but are evidently uneconomic (and no slots at Heathrow for domestic flights).
Might change when/if LHR gets its new runway.
I did once get booked on a BMI flight from Birmingham to London, but it turned into a bus down the M1 because BHX was closed by snow...

 

[Bletchleyite]

No there aren't, nor from Liverpool.

And not as many from Manchester either, nor all that many coaches in the scheme of things. Whatever you think of them, the high(ish) speed 3tph service has the market for Manchester to London travel that isn't connecting onto another flight near enough sewn up. And is a level of service that just about every country in the world would envy for their InterCity routes.

Bit pricey in the peaks, of course, though.