Pendolino - Euston

[Edvid]

apart from joining it [the A1] at Aberford....

And at Five Ways Corner (near an RAF museum and Graeme Park feeder station on the Midland Main Line), albeit in a different way.

 

[rail-britain]

I've made a few trips between :
Glasgow Central and Preston
Glasgow Central and Milton Keynes
one trip Euston to Glasgow Central

Southbound :
The tilt can be experienced as soon as you leave the Glasgow Central area for Polmadie!
Line speed is typically between 80 and 110 (EPS)
South of Motherwell the line speed increases to 125, however due to the increased frequency of Lanark trains almost every VT service gets a small delay at some point between Motherwell and Lanark
Once you have passed Carstairs the majority of the line speed is 125
It's recommended to remain seated at this point, between Carstairs and Abington
There are then some quite severe curves, most are S type so the train tilts from side to side on full axis as well
This often sees anyone walking along the carriages caught out by this!
For Beattock the line speed reduces, again once passed this the line speed is back to 125, but there aren't many full tilt sections between Beattock and Carlisle
South of Carlisle the line speed varies between 80 and 125
There are some good sections of tilting between Penrith and Oxenholme
Once you are at Lancaster the tilting experience is mostly over
The only next noticeable one I can remember was Stafford

On my first trip I tried out different seats in First Class, some have excellent views, others are really restricted
If you have the seating plans, then be aware that the nine windows are split into groups of three
G/H45 or J35 are my first choices southbound
G2, G/H32, or J22 for northbound
K3 is also a good seat if you want to see the front of the train as you tilt round corners, although views are a little restricted, although this seat is better at weekends

 

[me123]

I've done it to Carlisle. You get considerably slow north of Carstairs, presumably because of Lanark services or in my case perhaps the 0900 GLC-Paignton. South of Carstairs, you get the full tilt and it is simply fantastic. Again, south of Lockerbie (for trains that don't stop there) you get some pretty good tilt. Around Beattock I barely noticed any TBH, although I could feel a bit for most of the journey.

 

[rail-britain]

Soutbound :
There is a slight drop in line speed just before Law junction
Between there, Carluke, and Lanark it is quite common to get signals at caution as you are either following a Lanark or Edinburgh service
If you are following an Edinburgh service then you can end up slowing after the Lanark branch whilst the train negotiates the very slow divergining line
It's all too common to have caught it, resulting in a really slow speed through Carstairs
There is then a very long neutral section at the south junction, however once you are passed that and on the bridge the speed soon picks up again
As the train passes Symington this is a 125 mph right turn at full tilt, with a further one at Lamington as the train crosses over the River Clyde

Around Beattock (summit) the line is actually very straight, also the line speed isn't very high either
The tilt does occur but it's minimal
I'd say between Elvanfoot and Greenhillstairs

There is also a spectacular 125mph full left tilt at Yeskett, so this must be the one between Lockerbie and Carlisle you remember, apart from that the line is pretty straight

I drive down and spent a few hours at that bridge and luckily there is a road bridge over the rail line
I've also spent a few hours at Abington, again you can clearly see the full tilt as trains pass, providing the passing loops don't have any trains in them!

 

[me123]

Yes. I had a look on google maps before I went down and the tilt was mostly in the areas I had expected. You can see the big "S" shaped curves and the trains really do do them at speed.

Going up the M74, just North of Beattock, I once noticed a Pendo doing some tilt going NB but it certainly was not full. When you're on it, it certainly feels like more than 8 degrees!

 

[rail-britain]

Going up the M74, just North of Beattock, I once noticed a Pendo doing some tilt going NB but it certainly was not full. When you're on it, it certainly feels like more than 8 degrees!

I normally sit on the signal side facing direction, however for one trip I decided to swap over and sit on the track side facing direction, and made this observation...

This is due to the track upgrade work that has taken place as well
If you take the curve at Symington as an example
From Carstairs, the tracks are level and straight, until the curve
As you approach the curve the tracks separate slightly
As the curve begins the tracks are still level, however as the curvature increases the tracks then have a slight cant and elevation to them, although this probably is no more than about 2 or 3 degrees
It's the same at Lamington, so much so that the bridge has supporting piers at different heights for each track

You've probably been to Carstairs, so you will have seen how rail cant and elevation works, as the trains make the crossing to/from the Edinburgh line
The up main through the platform has a slight cant and elevation
Most stations don't have this, so that people don't open the doors and literally fall out or even struggle to open them, but there are a few out there!

 

[me123]

I was wondering if there was maybe a bit of cant involved, it was much more tilt than I expected. I know what you mean about the cant, though. At Bargeddie Platform 2, it's tilted away from the platform so that when you leave the train it is a rather large step to the platform. Motherwell 2 is also similar.

 

[rail-britain]

I have been looking into this a bit further
It would appear the maximum preferred cant is 75mm
Rail cant is the amount of banking, or super-elevation of the outer rail above the inner rail
In effect this produces its own tilt effect, so when the 390 uses its own tilt I would assume this gives more than the eight degrees within the carriage

For lower line speeds the cant deficiency can increase, and between Airdie and Bathgate it would appear this is between 140 and 165mm

 

[Waverley125]

TBH I wouldn't bother. The pendolinos looks nice but they're nothing on the 225s. Having done the WCML north of Preston recently, it does tilt a lot but it's quite slow, and depending on which service you take it can be quicker to go via the ECML. The Northbound service i caught to Glasgow from Warrington had stopped at Milton Keynes, Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Stafford and Crewe and proceeded to stop at Wigan, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Carstairs and Motherwell. Contrast this to the ECML service which calls Peterborough, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh Waverley, Haymarket, Motherwell & Glasgow Central.

 

[rail-britain]

Almost all the London Euston - Glasgow services have a shorter journey time than the London Kings Cross - Glasgow services
The only main exception is the first service from London Euston, which as you rightly pointed out calls at every main station, but you can hardly compare that to the equivalent service from London Kings Cross
Anyway, it all changes from December with even shorter journey times between London Euston and Glasgow

 

[me123]

As said, this is abnormal. Very few trains call at Lockerbie, even fewer at Carstairs (in fact I don't think any London trains do any more) and not many at Motherwell either, so most train turn out to be CAR-GLC non stop. Also, IIRC, Penrith and Oxenholme receive a "skip-stop" service (ie 1st to PNR, 2nd to OXN, 3rd to PNR etc) for most of the day too. And there's still the trains that only call Carlisle and Preston. IIRC, there won't be (m)any calling points south of Warrington now, with those stations largely receiving services to/from BHM and MAN.

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!

...All in one day, with tilt hot spots being Glasgow-Carlisle, and Rugby-Euston.

Good... on my trip down the WCML, I can be sure of some hellfire tilting action

I know this might be a bit late for this (Just dropping my $0.02 worth in as I pass, really) but from what I can remember of the WCML, there's not much tilt used anywhere south of Manchester...Maybe a 1.5° lean on the bends through the Trent Valley, but that's about it AFAIK! hock::roll:

On the other hand...The section between Oxenholme and Glasgow has a LOT of sharp, twisty bends on it - And this could be some serious fun if ye can get the driver to activate full-tilt and overspeed the train a little...

max speed for a 390 is 125mph on sections equipped with TASS (the tilt control system) these areas can be identified by the yellow background circular permenant speed boards lineside (letters EPS above the numeric value) The whole of WCML is fitted with TASS, although not all of the route has EPS speeds (enhanced permissable speed). EPS ends around the Camden area I think, although trains arent doing 125mph there.

Personally, I can't see how they can consider 125-140mph an "Enhanced" permissible speed, given that certain BR prototype vehicles were carrying passengers at over 180mph as far back as 1984CE. On the other hand though, I've been on some Pendos that have managed to hit a good 90mph (Going on what I could guage from my seat) as they passed the one-mile board outside of Euston! 8)

Incidentally...Why would tilting suspension need to be disabled at speeds over 125mph? The prototype train that I referred to above was still permitted to use full tilt (9° on that particular design) at 160mph+, and AFAIK it never experienced any issues whatsoever, aside from occasional failure of the tilt system. Given that the train was a prototype though, such a failure wasn't to be unexpected, IMO.

Southbound :
[Snip]
Once you have passed Carstairs the majority of the line speed is 125
It's recommended to remain seated at this point, between Carstairs and Abington
There are then some quite severe curves, most are S type so the train tilts from side to side on full axis as well
This often sees anyone walking along the carriages caught out by this!

That was something that I forgot to mention, and that is the fact that - Despite the major investments that have been pumped into the Pendolino project from day 0 - The things still get the angle of the tilt out by several degrees each time! :eek::roll:

Often when I travel on Pendos, I tend to stand in the vestibules by the doors...Mainly because I feel strangely more comfortable with standing (Aye...Even on a three hour journey! hock, and standing in a vestibule allows me to listen to my MP3 player at higher volume without disturbing other passengers. 8)
Now I have a near impeccable sense of balance, so I can "feel" an oncoming bend and react/lean into it as soon as the train enters it (Much in the same way as the spirit-level sensors used on the APT-P adjusted the tilt of the carriage based on the lateral G force being applied) and I find that on the Pendos, the amount of lean that I normally need to apply to myself to get a near perfect "line" around the bend is often only 1-2° less than I'd normally need on a non-tilting 445 going around an equivalent bend at 90mph! :eek:

I know that a train cannot be allowed to engage perfect tilt around bends, as to do so might induce motion sickness in passengers...But on the APT, they found that only about 0.3-0.8° of mis-cant was more than enough to prevent this from happening. Surely the Pendo's don't need to miss the "line" by a whole 4°+, do they? :roll:

My conclusions from this:

1. The 370 APT-P thrashes the Hell out of the 390 Pendo in every single regard, except perhaps for passenger safety in the event of a serious accident like at Greyrigg.
2. Rolling stock design and development within the UK nowadays is a pile of rubbish in comparison to the magick that BR were weaving in the late 70's/early 80's. That's just my own opinion, though. 8)

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[djw1981]

Hail All!
My conclusions from this:

1. The 370 APT-P thrashes the Hell out of the 390 Pendo in every single regard, except perhaps for passenger safety in the event of a serious accident like at Greyrigg.
2. Rolling stock design and development within the UK nowadays is a pile of rubbish in comparison to the magick that BR were weaving in the late 70's/early 80's. That's just my own opinion, though. 8)

Farewell...
>> Death <<

Dow e actually have any train design in the UK? Most Rolling Sock and loco manufacturers are foreign owned / based, and few new trains are actually designed for the UK. Most are just adaptations of existing designs of train (UK or foreign). with appropriate adaptations for the route / TOC in question.

IMO, the cl91 and Mk4 was probably the last train designed to do a specific UK railway function. It could be argued that the networker programme if rolled out fully would have been the obvious one.

Equally, the testing and introduction of a train built on new technology is easiest when the train developer also owns the track and signalling, and cross-department cooperation is thus much easier. Even with the use of Old Dalby, much of the Pendo's tilting technology was tested and developed abroad.