Pendolino Door Vinyls

[Up_Tilt_390]

For the most part we know what the Pendolino looks like; silver bodyshell, red roof and side swoosh outlined by white, and of course branded with the famous Virgin logo. There's also the grey and white diagonal stripes on the doors aside from the one used by the driver, but from what I've seen people have found this slightly unappealing.

By that I mean from what I've seen the forums people seem to prefer them as a solid single grey door, but to me this just doesn't match the livery because it just looks dull among the silver and red. If it was silver and black it'd probably look nice, but what do people find so unappealing about the striped vinyls? Now I might be wrong and most people might prefer it the way I do, but if not then please tell me what you find unappealing about the doors. Thanks.

 

[Carntyne]

The grey doors look cleaner & more contrasting that with the stripes.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

The grey doors look cleaner & more contrasting that with the stripes.

I think that's my problem though, cause the fact they contrast so much makes it look like it's been pasted on and looks like something that could be done in Microsoft Paint. Maybe if the stripes got a new coat?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

They are supposed to contrast with the body of the carriage, it's compliance with various acts of Parliament like the Disability Discrimination Act, the Equality act and the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations. (link)

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

They are supposed to contrast with the body of the carriage, it's compliance with various acts of Parliament like the Disability Discrimination Act, the Equality act and the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations. (link)

Does that mean those door vinyls aren't allowed then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see why the stripes (perhaps with a darker base) don't contrast *better* than a solid colour. Or does the law specify no decorations?

 

[Carntyne]

Does that mean those door vinyls aren't allowed then?

No. I think Virgin have just decided it looks better without the stripes.

 

[306024]

As an aside I've been told by more than one senior conductor on the GEML that the ex-virgin MkIII pretendolino is not too popular with staff as the stripes on the doors make it harder to see if they are closed properly, especially compared to the AGA livery. Doubt the cosmetics department at Virgin would have considered that.

 

[Murph]

The Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) Regulations 2010

“contrast” means contrast in the amount of light reflected;

3.—(1) Subject to sub-paragraph (2), each passenger doorway in the side of a rail vehicle must be indicated clearly by doors which on their exterior contrast with the exterior of the vehicle to each side of the doors (excluding any contrast resulting from a window or control device being set in the doors).

That's what RVAR has to say about it. The remainder of the section on doors does not deal with contrast. You can do whatever you want, as long as you can argue that there's contrast. No restriction on design, method of achieving the contrast, colour choice, or anything else.

 

[ag51ruk]

The stripes weren't just there to comply with those regs, because they were also on the inside of the doors - and are being removed at the same time as the exterior stripes.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes the stripes were more of a don't lean on me/watch out I move to passengers inside and out.

I think a few Tocs liveries are seriously bad for not incorporating the need for contrast into the design and just sticking a grey circle around them which has no relationship to the rest of the livery.

There are similar requirements for seat grab handles and carpets to be contrasting.

 

[Starmill]

Isn't the RVAR out of date for new stock / refurbishments now anyway?

 

[JaJaWa]

The door stripes always amused me as I thought they were an attempt to make the trains look like those of one of the European high speed train operators who uses the same - although they do so on the doors that are not for passenger use. I can't seem to find images of this operator at the moment however.

 

[physics34]

really dont see the point in having a contrasting colour IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS.

Because of this we can no longer have sleek liveries will nice lines etc Intercity etc.

I know ive been called "selfish" on this forum for my view on this but it seems almost overkill for me to do this to doors. Now that door buttons have to have flashing lights around them and there is also a door open siren, this contrast rule should be withdrawn.

 

[TailLight]

really dont see the point in having a contrasting colour IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS.

Because of this we can no longer have sleek liveries will nice lines etc Intercity etc.

I know ive been called "selfish" on this forum for my view on this but it seems almost overkill for me to do this to doors. Now that door buttons have to have flashing lights around them and there is also a door open siren, this contrast rule should be withdrawn.

I agree, where is the proof that "contrast" on a door helps people? The door will be opened and you see inside, surely all that matters is differentiation between interior and the gap between carriages?

 

[JaJaWa]

But doors don't automatically open (unless someone is getting off) and you have to find where the door is to press the button...

 

[Murph]

I agree, where is the proof that "contrast" on a door helps people? The door will be opened and you see inside, surely all that matters is differentiation between interior and the gap between carriages?

You need to be able to see the closed door for cases where the doors do not all open when released, i.e. when they are opened by passengers pushing the button. Speaking as someone who has fully correctable vision, but is below the threshold for "blind" without glasses, I can see the point of them. My uncorrected vision is limited to around 6 inches for seeing things clearly, and about 4 or 5 feet for being able to tell what most unknown fuzzy blobs probably are. Without glasses, I would be unable to tell where the closed door is from further than around 1-2m away from it, if the contrast was absent. It's important to remember that many people who are blind do actually still have some very limited vision, and the contrast is to help them.

 

[TailLight]

You need to be able to see the closed door for cases where the doors do not all open when released, i.e. when they are opened by passengers pushing the button. Speaking as someone who has fully correctable vision, but is below the threshold for "blind" without glasses, I can see the point of them. My uncorrected vision is limited to around 6 inches for seeing things clearly, and about 4 or 5 feet for being able to tell what most unknown fuzzy blobs probably are. Without glasses, I would be unable to tell where the closed door is from further than around 1-2m away from it, if the contrast was absent. It's important to remember that many people who are blind do actually still have some very limited vision, and the contrast is to help them.

Interesting, I did not know that. Clearly usability of the train is more important than aesthetics. Do you ever find it difficult to locate the doors once they are opened, for example on stock where the doors slide into the inside of the bodyshell rather than on the exterior?

 

[Murph]

Interesting, I did not know that. Clearly usability of the train is more important than aesthetics. Do you ever find it difficult to locate the doors once they are opened, for example on stock where the doors slide into the inside of the bodyshell rather than on the exterior?

Since I normally have my glasses, I have no problem at all. Without them, I'm fairly certain that I'd be able to figure out which fuzzy blob was the open door, assuming that the interior was lit.

In my case, it would be a rather moot point, if I had lost my glasses, as I would either seek assistance from staff to help me safely board or take a taxi if there were no staff. I don't have the experience of a real blind person in dealing with the world (I'm extremely careful not to lose my glasses), so there's a higher safety risk for me to the point that I'd need someone to assist if I did lose them. I just have the ability to see roughly what the world looks like for the subset of blind people who retain some vision (and can't be corrected, like mine can), by taking my glasses off.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Would it meet the rules if doors were built with a neat row of LEDs around the frame that only lit up when the door was cut in?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would it meet the rules if doors were built with a neat row of LEDs around the frame that only lit up when the door was cut in?

That seems rather a solution looking for a problem when there are plenty of attractive modern liveries with accented doors.

 

[Carntyne]

really dont see the point in having a contrasting colour IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS.

Because of this we can no longer have sleek liveries will nice lines etc Intercity etc.

I know ive been called "selfish" on this forum for my view on this but it seems almost overkill for me to do this to doors. Now that door buttons have to have flashing lights around them and there is also a door open siren, this contrast rule should be withdrawn.

It's a great help to partially sighted people in finding the doors. Flashing door buttons are no use.

 

[Starmill]

I'm of the view that the accented doors always make the train look better. Do we really want to go back to things like this?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1505226&postcount=85

It could just be that we're all so used to liveries with accented doors now. There's no denying that they are a help to pretty much everyone and are likely here to stay.

 

[physics34]

It's a great help to partially sighted people in finding the doors. Flashing door buttons are no use.

ok fair enough...

 

[cjmillsnun]

I agree, where is the proof that "contrast" on a door helps people? The door will be opened and you see inside, surely all that matters is differentiation between interior and the gap between carriages?

The doors aren't automatically opened, they open when a passenger presses a button. If no one is alighting and no one else boarding nearby, then that could be a partially sighted person.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

really dont see the point in having a contrasting colour IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS.

Because of this we can no longer have sleek liveries will nice lines etc Intercity etc.

I know ive been called "selfish" on this forum for my view on this but it seems almost overkill for me to do this to doors. Now that door buttons have to have flashing lights around them and there is also a door open siren, this contrast rule should be withdrawn.

It IS selfish, and there have been attractive liveries (GNER for example) that had/have contrasting doors

 

[plastictaffy]

Evening all.
I've noticed that the doors on Pendolinos have changed. They used to be zebra striped, but they've recently changed to dark grey. Anyone know why??

 

[Bungle965]

Yes i believe that it is due to disabled discrimination legislation coming into place and the old doors not being up to scratch, im sure someone with more info will be able to explain further.
Sam

 

[plastictaffy]

Then if it was down to that, I would have imagined they would have been easier to see before.....

 

[cf111]

Yes i believe that it is due to disabled discrimination legislation coming into place and the old doors not being up to scratch, im sure someone with more info will be able to explain further.
Sam

They were coloured with the Disability Discrimination Act in mind originally - I think this is just a cosmetic decision from Virgin.

 

[Bungle965]

They were coloured with the Disability Discrimination Act in mind originally - I think this is just a cosmetic decision from Virgin.

Ahh i knew it was something to do with that, it seems i have completely the wrong end of the stick.
Sam