Penalty fare received for using incorrect railcard (SWR)

[honeh12]

In September, I mistakenly bought a ticket using a 16-17 railcard instead of my 16-25 railcard. The guard caught it, asked for my railcard and cancelled the ticket. He took my address etc and promised me I wouldn't get a fine as I was really stressed out by this- just that I would get a letter. I got an email asking for proof of my railcard saying they were investigating all my journeys as there was evidence I had used my 16-25 railcard- which I provided. I didn't get any response other than confirmation of receipt so I assumed the issue was resolved as I have a valid railcard however, I just received a letter stating a fine for £279 (£159 for fare avoided £120 operational and administrative costs).
I have 21 days to pay or it may go to court. I have sent an email to appeal but I'm not sure what my chances are of being answered and if I even have a case...
It was genuinely bought in error and I tried to buy a new ticket but the guard wouldn't have it (he also cancelled my ticket so I had to buy a new one to return home).
With my normal railcard, the return ticket would cost about £10, and the one I bought was £8 which I assumed was due to travelling off-peak. I also saw this below on the website and am not sure how it works - would the amount be refunded? How can I be charged over £100 for administrative costs!!!

"If you travel in a Penalty Fare area from a penalty fare designated station and cannot show a valid ticket, we may issue you a Penalty Fare Notice. A Penalty Fare is £100 plus the price of the full single fare applicable for your intended journey. However, if it is paid within 21 days, the Penalty Fare is reduced to £50 plus the price of the single fare applicable."

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Could you post the letter you've received on this thread please? I would cover up your name, address and any reference numbers to keep this anonymous.

 

[Kite159]

From what, it sounds like you haven't been issued with a penalty fare as such, as those can only be issued at the time of the event.

 

[alholmes]

Sounds as though you’ve been offered an out of court settlement, but if you can upload the letter then we can confirm.

Although it may feel like it, you haven’t been fined. You’ve been charged the full amount for the fare avoided (£159) and £120 for admin costs - that’s actually a little lower than we usually see, often it’s around £150.

Slightly confused where you say the journey would normally cost £10, but they are saying fare avoided is £159. What stations were you travelling between? Is there any chance they’ve looked at your online purchase history and identified multiple journeys with the wrong railcard discount?

 

[Titfield]

Not that this will provide any comfort but for the benefit of others in a similar situation who may read this thread.

When a travelling ticket inspector discovers an issue with a railcard discounted ticket (for example expired railcard, no railcard presented, wrong railcard discount claimed) they are now routinely referring the matter for investigation (to see if there are other journeys where a railcard discount has been claimed) rather than issuing a penalty fare and the price of a new full one way ticket. This inevitably means a much higher cost to the passenger: £50 penalty fare (with the prompt payment discount) versus at least £120 administration charge plus the cost of the replacement ticket. Also the language used in the investigation letter is much more "frightening" than when a penalty fare is issued.

 

[honeh12]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Could you post the letter you've received on this thread please? I would cover up your name, address and any reference numbers to keep this anonymous.

thank you, just uploaded

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2025 ==

Sounds as though you’ve been offered an out of court settlement, but if you can upload the letter then we can confirm.

Although it may feel like it, you haven’t been fined. You’ve been charged the full amount for the fare avoided (£159) and £120 for admin costs - that’s actually a little lower than we usually see, often it’s around £150.

Slightly confused where you say the journey would normally cost £10, but they are saying fare avoided is £159. What stations were you travelling between? Is there any chance they’ve looked at your online purchase history and identified multiple journeys with the wrong railcard discount?

return from sunningdale-waterloo £10-15 depending on time with 16-25 railcard which I meant to buy. You're right and I had the wrong saver applied to two other journeys so I guess they probably won't believe my appeal that it was an accident :/ the fare avoided is plus £100 though right?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2025 ==

Not that this will provide any comfort but for the benefit of others in a similar situation who may read this thread.

When a travelling ticket inspector discovers an issue with a railcard discounted ticket (for example expired railcard, no railcard presented, wrong railcard discount claimed) they are now routinely referring the matter for investigation (to see if there are other journeys where a railcard discount has been claimed) rather than issuing a penalty fare and the price of a new full one way ticket. This inevitably means a much higher cost to the passenger: £50 penalty fare (with the prompt payment discount) versus at least £120 administration charge plus the cost of the replacement ticket. Also the language used in the investigation letter is much more "frightening" than when a penalty fare is issued.

thanks for your comment. just wondering how the prompt payment discount is applied? is it refunded?

 

[Haywain]

just wondering how the prompt payment discount is applied? is it refunded?

This is not a penalty fare and there is no prompt payment discount. Failure to pay promptly will result in prosecution.

 

[Hadders]

There is no right to appeal this. Your choices are:

1. Pay the settlement
2. Contest the matter in court

If it ends up in court, based on what you have told us, you would be found guilty and have to pay a fine, a surcharge, compensation for the fare avoided and a contribution to SWR's court costs. You would also have a criminal conviction. This will cost much more than the £279 you are being asked to pay now to settle the matter.

You've told us that you've written to SWR to appeal which SWR might interpret as opting for the matter to go to court. Assuming you want to keep the matter out of court then I would pay the settlement immediately as once the settlement is paid SWR won't be able to send the matter to court.