Penalty Fare Appeal

[LesserAnglia]

Took a later train.



Hi all,



This feels like a scenario that the forum must have seen a million times before and absolutely discussed to death already. I am therefore a wary of boring you all however, since I can’t seem to find anyone with exactly the same situation as me after parsing this section for a while, I will lay out my grievances for you kind folk to assess.



Basically I recently bought an advance single from Norwich to London. I boarded the train and sat there with my railcard and ticket at the ready. When the ticket officer arrived he informed me that me ticket was booked for the previous service 30 mins before and was therefore invalid. I must have made a mistake when booking it through Trainline, I explained to the officer that this was an honest mistake and that I was clearly not fare evading. I was issued with a penalty fare notice for 85 quid anyway, (the original ticket cost me £15).



I have appealed once, basically arguing that it was an honest mistake and that Norwich station holds some of the blame as I should never have been let on the train, having scanned my ticket and been let through the barriers after the train I was actually booked on had already departed. This appeal was rejected and I am in the process of writing a second (why not, I might as well use them).



Does anyone have any advice that might give my next appeal a higher chance of success? I understand that I probably don’t have a strong case but I just feel a little shafted, having bought a ticket for £15 and walked off the train £100 poorer. As I understand penalty fares are there to stop fair evasion which I obviously wasn’t doing.



Thank you for reading and all thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[jfollows]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

”Honest mistake” won’t cut it, I fear, your ticket is either valid or not, and it wasn’t. In the same way that, as a driver, you’re not going to be let off when caught breaking the speed limit because you didn’t mean to.

Carry on with your appeals by all means, but I don’t think they’ll come to anything. You were evading your fare even though it was not your intention, and I bet you won’t make the same mistake in future.

 

[WesternLancer]

Apart from being let off by the ticket inspector a Penalty Fare is the least worst sanction they can impose which might be some consolation.

Everything else ends up costing more and much more hassle to resolve time wise. Don’t miss the prompt payment discount.

Basically appeals to these have to be based on why in terms of the regulations the penalty fare should not have been issued. It’s not an appeal to their better nature or that it wasn’t fair to give you a Penalty Fare.

That having been said if you upload a copy of it experts here can check if a mistake has been made on the paperwork which may create a loophole that means it is not valid.

 

[furlong]

There's nothing to lose by including as two of your grounds for appeal that the notices at Norwich do not comply with the regulations both in terms of their placement (not enough of them in the right places) and their content (mandatory words missing).

 

[LesserAnglia]

There's nothing to lose by including as two of your grounds for appeal that the notices at Norwich do not comply with the regulations both in terms of their placement (not enough of them in the right places) and their content (mandatory words missing).

Thanks, I’ll definitely mention that in my next appeal. Is there specific act/regulation that I should refer to to strengthen my case?

 

[furlong]

Read the regulations yourself and refer to other threads. Here's one example regarding Tottenham Hale https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stansted-airport-fines.253779/post-6421189

There are other examples for the placement argument but usually there are paths through the station without notices or they are hidden outside the natural lines of sight of a passenger,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2025 ==

Do upload a copy of your complete notice though with personal details etc covered up if you want people to check it. We see far too many incorrect ones on here.

 

[LesserAnglia]

Brilliant, thank you all for the responses thus far. I think what I’ll do is simply pay it now to avoid an increase in the fine. This will also give me time to do some proper research and draft up a better appeal. From what I have read on other threads the appeals process can still continue after I’ve paid the penalty fare? With a result in my favour simply meaning they refund me? I’ll try to find and post the original fare notice for your viewing pleasure and I’ll keep everyone posted on the appeal.

 

[Watershed]

Brilliant, thank you all for the responses thus far. I think what I’ll do is simply pay it now to avoid an increase in the fine. This will also give me time to do some proper research and draft up a better appeal. From what I have read on other threads the appeals process can still continue after I’ve paid the penalty fare? With a result in my favour simply meaning they refund me? I’ll try to find and post the original fare notice for your viewing pleasure and I’ll keep everyone posted on the appeal.

Yes, but even if your appeal is successful you will not be reimbursed the fare itself, the presumption being that this was due for the journey regardless of whether a penalty on top was warranted.