Passing through the barriers?

[Samuel88]

What are my rights in insisting on showing the gateline staff my ticket instead of passing through the barriers and losing my ticket?

I ask because today someone at the gate insisted that I pass through the barriers, however I need to keep both portions of the
ticket so I can get reimbursed for my travel, so potentially I've lost £20!

Also, I didn't know where to put my question so feel free to move it!

 

[jopsuk]

Did you patiently and politely explain that you needed it for expenses purposes?

 

[Samuel88]

Did you patiently and politely explain that you needed it for expenses purposes?

I did, but the ticket guy was having none of it!

 

[causton]

Technically, the ticket is railway property so you can be asked to give it up on finishing your journey. Who insists on the policy of keeping the actual ticket? A comparison I was told (that isn't 100% accurate, and has lots of holes, but it will do) is like asking to keep the plates in a restaurant!

However...
In the real world, anyone would mark the ticket as used and give it back to you.

Perhaps next time you can make a small rip in the magstripe or rub a magnet on the back of it to ensure it does not work a barrier and force them to let you through!

 

[joncombe]

This is a tricky one. I believe once your journey is complete (I.E. you've reached the destination on your ticket) the rail operators are entitled to retain your ticket. So I don't think the gate staff were being unreasonable here.

But I also know many companies (including the one I work for) require the tickets in order to claim expenses. So I always do the same and ask to keep them if I need them for an expenses claim. So far this has always been accepted but I don't think the gate staff are required to allow you to keep your ticket. It would be nice if ticket machines could be forced to print a reciept when buying tickets (the SWT ones don't seem to offer it).

Thankfully in my case my work has switched to an electronic system of claiming expenses (you must scan the tickets/reciept) so now I buy the tickets online, collect them the day before and then scan the tickets in before I use them, so I will always have the required eletronic copy.

Is this an option for you in future?

 

[nickswift99]

So if you want to claim Delay Repay and you're forced to give up your ticket, what happens then?

 

[sheff1]

So if you want to claim Delay Repay and you're forced to give up your ticket, what happens then?

I have never been refused when stating that I need to retain a ticket to claim Delay Repay. If it ever happens I will start a thread about what happened next .

 

[Elecman]

You loose the ability to claim delay repay, I now always take a photo of the ticket once the train hits the delay threshold to avoid this situation, because I also lost a £100+ claim because the barrier staff insisted on the ticket going through the barrier ( deliberately?) knowing it would retain the ticket then refusing to recover the ticket. I am still in correspondence with the TOC over the matter some several weeks later.

 

[philthetube]

If you buy a ticket from an office you can ask for a recipt

 

[simdmuk]

With EMT, barriers have a notice on them which states if you wish to retain your ticket,just ask the gate staff.

 

[Jonfun]

Meh, while strictly speaking they're allowed to, there's really no need for the railway to retain the ticket under most circumstances. If the entire journey has been completed, put a tear in the magstripe, mark it on the front of the ticket as used and then leave it be and move on. If a passenger is trying it on they'll be caught soon enough.

 

[cf111]

Meh, while strictly speaking they're allowed to, there's really no need for the railway to retain the ticket under most circumstances. If the entire journey has been completed, put a tear in the magstripe, mark it on the front of the ticket as used and then leave it be and move on. If a passenger is trying it on they'll be caught soon enough.

This is what I do, if the guard hasn't already I'll mark the ticket with pen and tear it at either end through the magstripe.

 

[route:oxford]

What are my rights in insisting on showing the gateline staff my ticket instead of passing through the barriers and losing my ticket?

None at all.

I ask because today someone at the gate insisted that I pass through the barriers, however I need to keep both portions of the
ticket so I can get reimbursed for my travel, so potentially I've lost £20!

Also, I didn't know where to put my question so feel free to move it!

You should ask for a receipt at point of sale, or arrange for your employer to use a travel agent to book your rail travel instead.

A former employer had a similar policy where they demanded the ticket as well as the receipt in order to repay expenses. Something that I only discovered *after* the first expenses claim.

The small claims court awarded in my favour.

 

[tsr]

I would echo the advice about taking a photo of the ticket for any Delay Repay claims.

I rarely have cause to make such claims due to the nature of my travel, but when I do, a photo of the ticket has always sufficed. This can be taken en-route, as soon as you pass the compensation threshold.

 

[JP]

The recent reports from ORR and the like mention this about delay repay and how it should be easier. So staff shouldn't be stopping people keeping their tickets.

 

[Jonfun]

This is what I do, if the guard hasn't already I'll mark the ticket with pen and tear it at either end through the magstripe.

Not specifically relevant for the OP, but for the benefit of colleagues - yes, it's really frustrating when you see a ticket that you know full well has already been used (or misused!) but can't prove it. So please - just make it as easy as possible for the next inspector to prove it. If it's been used to the end of validity, it takes ten seconds to mark that. Don't take it out on the passenger, most of whom won't be out to cause grief.

 

[infobleep]

Who legally owns the tickets once a journey has been completed? I understood they were property of the railways but the railways are made up of more than one company? They can't all own it. Is it simply the case any member of staff for any TOC can request that TOC keeps said ticket once a journey is completed.

 

[jimbo99]

Years ago in Taiwan, I remember there was a little stamp and ink pad at an open barrier. Instead of "losing" your ticket at the automatic barrier you could pass through the open barrier on the basis you stamped your ticket first. Many would do this.

Given many companies finance the travel of their staff, the railways shouldn't make it difficult to assist with the necessary paperwork. To my mind this should be in the form of a receipt which gives details of the ticket issued, but I suppose there could be issues if tickets can be refunded without requiring the receipt to be returned.

A company I worked for would always require boarding passes for flights to prevent people buying refundable tickets and using the receipt to make a claim having obtained a refund.

 

[BluePenguin]

Having my ticket taken off me is very annoying and inconvenient. Whether I need to keep the ticket because I want to claim delay repay, expenses or just want to keep it as a souvenir of my journey to/from somewhere shouldn't matter. I bought the ticket so technically it's mine! I wish they would program the barriers to return all tickets. They could configure them to punch holes in the tickets to prevent them being used again.

I don't see how used tickets are of any use to anyone in the railway - unless they have magic ink remover so that they can be re-used instead of recycled!

I know paper underground tickets are not allowed to be kept so not sure where people stand if they need to keep the ticket in this situation. We don't have this problem on buses at all.

Anyway, as a work around to this problem when I need to keep hold of my ticket, I buy one to the next station beyond the one I am getting off at, if it is cheap enough so the barrier returns my ticket. Of course this costs extra although usually it is only pennies in most cases.

I know some tickets don't allow break of a journey and buying a ticket from a later station than the one you got on at is definitely not allowed, but this is a hassle free work around to get out of the station with my ticket without having to explain myself to the staff who are usually busy anyway.

 

[Bantamzen]

You loose the ability to claim delay repay, I now always take a photo of the ticket once the train hits the delay threshold to avoid this situation, because I also lost a £100+ claim because the barrier staff insisted on the ticket going through the barrier ( deliberately?) knowing it would retain the ticket then refusing to recover the ticket. I am still in correspondence with the TOC over the matter some several weeks later.

Just on this I recently made a delay repay claim without my ticket, but as I had bought the ticket through the company's website (in this case TPE) they accepted my claim using just my booking details. Of course I was probably lucky in that respect, but just in case someone finds themselves in a similar position it is worth a try. Of course if the ticket was not bough via the company's site it is very unlikely they will accept it, not having direct access to the system used.

 

[jopsuk]

I bought the ticket so technically it's mine!

You paid to travel, not for a ticket. Whilst travelling your ticket is your proof of purchase, not the product itself.

I wish they would program the barriers to return all tickets. They could configure them to punch holes in the tickets to prevent them being used again.

the vast, vast majority of people don't want to keep their tickets. You would need to install a row of bins a short way beyond the gate line else you'll have a litter problem.

 

[Hadders]

I've never had a problem retaining my ticket at the end of my journey. This is at stations all over the country.

Companies should not insist on tickets for reimbursing expenses - it is not a HMRC requirement (as some often claim). A receipt is sufficient which can be obtained from booking offices, websites or TVMs. Some companies argue that receipts sometimes don't state the details of the journey made, but then again neither do petrol receipts and the same companies are always willing to reimburse mileage receipts supported by a summary receipt!

 

[Llanigraham]

Having my ticket taken off me is very annoying and inconvenient. Whether I need to keep the ticket because I want to claim delay repay, expenses or just want to keep it as a souvenir of my journey to/from somewhere shouldn't matter. I bought the ticket so technically it's mine! I wish they would program the barriers to return all tickets. They could configure them to punch holes in the tickets to prevent them being used again.

I don't see how used tickets are of any use to anyone in the railway - unless they have magic ink remover so that they can be re-used instead of recycled!

I know paper underground tickets are not allowed to be kept so not sure where people stand if they need to keep the ticket in this situation. We don't have this problem on buses at all.

Anyway, as a work around to this problem when I need to keep hold of my ticket, I buy one to the next station beyond the one I am getting off at, if it is cheap enough so the barrier returns my ticket. Of course this costs extra although usually it is only pennies in most cases.

I know some tickets don't allow break of a journey and buying a ticket from a later station than the one you got on at is definitely not allowed, but this is a hassle free work around to get out of the station with my ticket without having to explain myself to the staff who are usually busy anyway.

The ticket is not yours. It remains the property of the railway.
You pay for a journey, and the ticket is just a token for that journey. You do not pay for the piece of paper/card.

 

[stut]

FWIW, in nearly 20 years of regular rail travel for work, I've never once been refused to keep my ticket when requested. I just go to the gate, say "can I keep the ticket please" and they happily tear, smile and wave through.

 

[ag51ruk]

I've never had a problem retaining my ticket at the end of my journey. This is at stations all over the country.

Companies should not insist on tickets for reimbursing expenses - it is not a HMRC requirement (as some often claim). A receipt is sufficient which can be obtained from booking offices, websites or TVMs. Some companies argue that receipts sometimes don't state the details of the journey made, but then again neither do petrol receipts and the same companies are always willing to reimburse mileage receipts supported by a summary receipt!

One issue is that unscrupulous people can buy a ticket, get a receipt and then submit the ticket for a refund. If this happens in a shop, in most cases they retain or mark the receipt as refunded, but that doesn't happen for rail tickets.

That is why one organisation I worked for insisted on the actual tickets being produced for an expense claim, rather than a receipt or copy of the tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which TOC is involved here? It's not one specific one that has a reputation for poorly-trained barrier staff, is it? The same one that has a couple of sub-brands for near identical services to a certain airport, perchance?

 

[Great_Western]

As others have said, the best option is to take a clear photo of the ticket before you get to the barriers. Although I work handling delay repay claims, and all we really need is evidence of the cost and preferably the type of the ticket. So aslong as your journey was after the recent fare increases, even a copy of your bank statement will suffice. Failing that, if you booked online, Just your booking reference.

 

[Lockwood]

I'm amazed at how often when travelling, I can come to a gateline with hands full of stuff, walk to the manned gate and start to get my wallet containing the ticket out and be told not to worry and go straight through.
Likewise at the exit, I don't have a problem with retention as the most detailed ticket check I've had in the above situations seems to have been "Is this card with orange edges?"

 

[Clip]

Given many companies finance the travel of their staff, the railways shouldn't make it difficult to assist with the necessary paperwork. To my mind this should be in the form of a receipt which gives details of the ticket issued, but I suppose there could be issues if tickets can be refunded without requiring the receipt to be returned.

In this day and age there should be no reason for companies to adjust their policy's surrounding staff travel and expenses - its not the railways fault they are ineffective and still living in the 70s.

 

[najaB]

Who legally owns the tickets once a journey has been completed? I understood they were property of the railways but the railways are made up of more than one company? They can't all own it

My understanding is that the Rail Delivery Group (formerly known as ATOC) owns it, and all TOCs are members and so act on behalf of the group.