Passing through the barriers?

[DarloRich]

You should ask for a receipt at point of sale, or arrange for your employer to use a travel agent to book your rail travel instead.

A former employer had a similar policy where they demanded the ticket as well as the receipt in order to repay expenses. Something that I only discovered *after* the first expenses claim.

The small claims court awarded in my favour.

Helpful :roll: Most people are not going to take an employer they wish to remain in employment with to court. :roll:

My ex employer had a similar process: Receipt and ticket or no expenses. Most smaller businesses would prefer you booked the tickets and claimed them back rather than pay a company to do it for them.

I've never had a problem retaining my ticket at the end of my journey. This is at stations all over the country.

Companies should not insist on tickets for reimbursing expenses - it is not a HMRC requirement (as some often claim). A receipt is sufficient which can be obtained from booking offices, websites or TVMs. Some companies argue that receipts sometimes don't state the details of the journey made, but then again neither do petrol receipts and the same companies are always willing to reimburse mileage receipts supported by a summary receipt!

they shouldn't, but many employers do ask for such things.

 

[infobleep]

The ticket is not yours. It remains the property of the railway.
You pay for a journey, and the ticket is just a token for that journey. You do not pay for the piece of paper/card.

Comment removed as it's been answered. It's own by the Rail Delivery Group.

 

[najaB]

Which railway though? We don't have a single rail company any more. It's not British Rail now.

Ahem...

My understanding is that the Rail Delivery Group (formerly known as ATOC) owns it, and all TOCs are members and so act on behalf of the group.

 

[infobleep]

My understanding is that the Rail Delivery Group (formerly known as ATOC) owns it, and all TOCs are members and so act on behalf of the group.

Thanks for that.

 

[infobleep]

Ahem...

Sorry I missed your reply. I have amended my response.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Regarding expenses - if only the receipt is submitted, one potential scam is an employee buying and claiming for a more expensive ticket, then having it refunded, buying a cheaper ticket and pocketing the difference.

 

[island]

The ticket is the property of the railway and the railway is absolutely entitled to retain it at the end of the journey.

If employers require that you produce and hand in an item of someone else's property as a condition of obtaining a refund for travel expenses, that is a matter between the individual and the employer and does not affect the right of the railway to retain its own property. Employers who don't trust their staff should use rail travel warrants or a corporate travel agent.

This is nothing to do with HMRC and everything to do with employers being awkward. As already said above nobody requires proof that the petrol used in a mileage expense was actually used for the given journey – nor, indeed, that the traveller didn't just book a cheap train/coach and claim the mileage.

 

[Joe Paxton]

... This is nothing to do with HMRC and everything to do with employers being awkward. ...

Agreed. Unfortunately it's also a fairly common requirement from employers when it comes to claiming expenses. Perhaps the railway needs to assert its ownership rights over the ticket a bit more? (A short paragraph on the NRE website perhaps?)

On a side note, where people collect, exchange and or sell railway tickets then by logical extension they are doing so with someone else's property!

 

[Statto]

If you need to claim expenses for tickets you brought, providing you're buying the ticket from a staffed station & not from a TVM, you should ask for a receipt when you buy the ticket.

 

[headshot119]

If you need to claim expenses for tickets you brought, providing you're buying the ticket from a staffed station & not from a TVM, you should ask for a receipt when you buy the ticket.

But some employers insist on the actual tickets (rightly or wrongly)

 

[PeterC]

Luckily I have never worked for a company that insisted on rail tickets being retained for expenses. On the other hand one did, for a very short time, refuse claims for the Dartford Crossing without a receipt!

 

[weastebusdepot]

There was a situation recently during the Ordsall Chord work where on several days services from Glasgow/Edinburgh/Windermere that would normally pass through Manchester Piccadilly were terminating at Manchester Victoria. An agreement was made with Metrolink to accept holders of valid rail tickets between the two, however the ticket barriers at Victoria are programmed to retain tickets where the terminus is 'Manchester Stns'. So a lot of people expecting to get the ticket back to show on the tram were shocked when they didn't. As far as I know no one in that situation got challenged by Metrolink revenue staff, but it could have been an interesting case if they were.

 

[Tom B]

If arriving at King's Cross on a delayed train, and if the barriers are open, I use my Oyster card to operate the gates (it has a travelcard valid in zone 1 on it). In fact, doing so is easier than faffing around with a paper ticket!

Comparisons with mileage etc are interesting, I think an employee can claim a certain rate per mile which works out as being more than the cost of petrol. But it would be bery difficult to prove whether an employee had driven a particular route etc.

Most companies will allow occasional claims where a good reaaon can be provided for the receipt not being submitted, although I assume that questions would be asked if it became a regular thing.

As to it being a matter between staff and employer, and nothing to do with the railways, that is quite correct. If only that same attitude extended to other parts of the operation (such as refunds being denied when services are suspended due to industrial action - a matter between staff and employer, nothing to do with the passenger)!

 

[BluePenguin]

The ticket is not yours. It remains the property of the railway.
You pay for a journey, and the ticket is just a token for that journey. You do not pay for the piece of paper/card.

So if it doesn't belong to me, does that mean by keeping hold of it I would be a theif for not returning it at the end of my journey?

 

[BluePenguin]

The ticket is not yours. It remains the property of the railway.
You pay for a journey, and the ticket is just a token for that journey. You do not pay for the piece of paper/card.

You paid to travel, not for a ticket. Whilst travelling your ticket is your proof of purchase, not the product itself.


the vast, vast majority of people don't want to keep their tickets. You would need to install a row of bins a short way beyond the gate line else you'll have a litter problem.

That is a good point. Mind you, there doesn't seem to be a litter problem at any of the smaller stations without barriers.

 

[gray1404]

I believe the National Rail Conditions of Travel expressly states that a train company will allow you to retain your ticket for the purposes of claiming against a delay. So if that is your reason then the barrier staff cannot refuse to give you the ticket back if you are delayed by enough minutes because it is a condition of the contract you have entered into that you can retain it for such purposes.

 

[island]

How did anyone manage back in the BR days when tickets were systematically and rigorously collected in at every station for accountancy and record keeping purposes?

 

[HowardGWR]

That is a good point. Mind you, there doesn't seem to be a litter problem at any of the smaller stations without barriers.

If you think about it, most people keep their tickets in their pocket until asked for. If the station has no barriers, the ticket will stay where it is until one day at home when they clear out their wallets and pockets. My tickets end up in the recycling bag.

 

[najaB]

So if it doesn't belong to me, does that mean by keeping hold of it I would be a theif for not returning it at the end of my journey?

No. Theft requires you to permanently deprive the owner of their property without their consent. RDG have given you posession of the ticket in perpetuity while retaining their ownership rights.

 

[jopsuk]

So if it doesn't belong to me, does that mean by keeping hold of it I would be a theif for not returning it at the end of my journey?

no. You only have to return it if requested or if a barrier is set to retain it.