Passengers with no manners

[455driver]

And what if there are other vacant seats available?

So you are saying he shouldnt sit in that vacant seat because?
Surely one vacant seat is just like any other vacant seat!

 

[TUC]

One big bugbear of mine at stations is the use of the Wide Aisle Gate (especially where there is only one in "First Come First Serve" mode!!!!)

There could be four other barriers in "exit" mode and there will still be a queue of people at a WAG because one person uses it and the rest of the sheeple have to follow, so when a bicycle wants to come through they can't because of the queue of people getting off a train.

So a cyclist has to wait in a queue like other passengers. Not the end of the world is it?

 

[Clansman]

I wouldn't say I've encountered rude passengers, but about 2 months ago myself an 2 friends were yelled at by a gentleman in his 40 for refusing to move out of the table seats he had reservations for (same seats and coach but on another service). It was at London Euston where him, his wife and children were headed for Wolverhampton and must've gotten confused between the 2 Glasgow trains (one goes via Birmingham, the other Semi-Fast via Nuneaton). The train was really busy so I could sense his frustration, but it was out of order shouting at us for, especially after my attempts to help him find the right train after he showed me his tickets, which was taken as an insult. Nevertheless a member of customer service was helping an elderly woman to her seat at this point, in which he noticed the gentleman's heated demeanour. After he pointed out to the gentleman he was on the wrong train after inquiring about his issue, he alighted without a word, but I was thankful when his wife apologised to us for "his little moment".

I think catching a train (especially when busy) is overwhelming for a lot of folk, which might explain the "flapping" or folk sprinting to a train not due to leave for another 5-10 minutes no matter how busy or quiet the platform is. As someone who has caught the train solo since 11 I've never understood the problem "outsiders" have, or the mind set they're in when they enter the station.

 

[greaterwest]

So a cyclist has to wait in a queue like other passengers. Not the end of the world is it?

If there's a queue of people trying to get OUT of a station using the gate then no, because the cyclist has no opportunity to use it. (remember, first-come-first serve, this need not apply to stations where there is a separate "entry" and "exit" wide aisle gate)

 

[blue87]

When I was on crutches due to a broken ankle a while ago I had to struggle down the stairs at New Street as the lift was out of order, numerous people were coming up the stairs all on the other side except one who wanted to use the rail my side and barged past me nearly knocking me over. Using public transport as a whole whilst on crutches was a real eye-opener to how inconsiderate some people really are.

 

[Antman]

So you are saying he shouldnt sit in that vacant seat because?
Surely one vacant seat is just like any other vacant seat!

Indeed one vacant seat is just like any other vacant seat which is why I questioned as to why he would go for a seat where somebody has put their baggage if other seats are available?

 

[paulfoel]

Its no different up north. Im forever on the PA telling people to stand back from the doors and let people off the train first (its actually in the rwilway byelaws, not that its ever upheld...) I have even had to challenge people blocking the doors preventing me from getting off!

The worst offender once I was putting the ramp down qt Leeds, this woman wouldnt wait and marched up the ramp as I was still laying it trapping and crushing my hwnd between the ramp and train. She promptly sat down on a tip up seat obviously eager to get a seat.

She was refused travel.

Sadly thats not an isolated case. People in wheelchairs often get bumped and barged by others eager to board even tho they can clearly see me with a ramp and wheelchair on platform or on trwin. I make them wait

I hate to see that too and often think FGS get out of the way and let the ppor bugger with wheelchair on. If you';re that bothered go to another door.

So you chucked the woman off the train? Good for you. Guess she was not happy? So are you allowed to do this? On what basis? Although I guess she caused a bit of danger by what she did.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Because she caused injury to me in the course of my duties. No remorse, no apology, nothing. She was a very rude and selfish individual. I told her as a result of her actions And unreasonable behaviour I was not prepared to take her but she could catch the following service. Downgraded from a then brand spanker 185 to a 142 for her trip to Dewsbury.

 

[James Wake]

I've had a few in my commutes:

One was when I was waiting at Clapham Junction for the 1642 Southern service to Crawley. I was in a good position for the door, as the train was slowing, a person stood right next to me, then as the door slightly passed them and lined up with where I was standing, she tried to follow it, pushing into me in the process and managing to board first. We both got seats, so what was the rush?

Another is also at Clapham Junction, where I was waiting for the 1740 service at the first door position at the far end of the platform. As the train arrived, someone from the 8 car mark tried to follow the front door by walking down between the yellow line and the moving train. As he got towards the correct position, I noticed what he was doing, he was going to try and push in front of us. Luckily the train was almost at a stand, so me and the other commuters stepped forward to block him. We all got seats, he ended up standing, but got off at East Croydon (which would normally be a front coach exit on a southbound train, but on anything greater than 9 cars the front of the train goes past the footbridge).

One from a day out: the worst manners of a fellow passenger was just a couple of weeks ago at Guildford Bus Station. I was awaiting the 1420 service 63 to Horsham, and was at the front of the queue, having arrived off a punctual 65 from Alton. Bay 7 at Guildford has the door to the bay on the left, and on the right is where passengers queue out of the way of that door until the bus is ready to board. At about 1410, there was a bus swap happening on the bay when a lady walked down past the queue (by now about 10 people long) and stood right in the doorway. I thought we have a queue jumper here, however every time a member of staff wanted to pass, she would only shuffle slightly so as not to lose her position. The bus was an Enviro 200, so I was going to take the seat immediately behind the drivers cab. When the bus started boarding, lo and behold she boarded first, much to the disgust of myself and fellow passengers. She scanned her concessionary pass then sat down on the seat I was going to take. I then took the seat next to her, politely saying "please don't queue jump next time". I was then subjected to a torrent of abuse about how she was autistic, had to be near the door for fresh air, buses were filthy, she'd been run into by mothers and prams etc. When I could get a word in edgeways I politely said "I'm autistic too but don't jump queues". With that she shut up for the rest of the journey. A passenger sitting opposite me mouthed to me "don't worry about it", I mouthed back "is she regular?", "yes" came the reply. She alighted in Cranleigh and I moved across into the seat I was going to take from the start. I'll be watching out for her next time I'm in Guildford, although I wonder how she copes if she is boarding a bus mid-route and her only seat she takes is taken.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because she caused injury to me in the course of my duties. No remorse, no apology, nothing. She was a very rude and selfish individual. I told her as a result of her actions And unreasonable behaviour I was not prepared to take her but she could catch the following service. Downgraded from a then brand spanker 185 to a 142 for her trip to Dewsbury.

Good for you, I've seen that sometimes before on a bus when I've preparing to put the ramp down but someone barges straight past when I'm about to pull it out so I can assist the driver getting the wheelchair aboard safely and in the correct position.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Long distance XC trains, women with ludicrously overlarge suitcases on wheels boarding first then spending an age trying to cram them into the luggage space, oblivious to the queue of 30 or so people behind her trying to get past to get a seat. While she's playing with her case, all the 30 or so passengers who've entered the coach via the door at the other end are able to nip in and claim all the vacant seats!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Part of the problem is caused by the scrabble for seats, which is caused by the fact that (a) there are now more passengers than seats on a good many trains, and (b) unlike Mk1/Mk2 stock not all seats are the same.

I think increased use of reservations would help matters, which leads me to my proposal I've made a few times that we should move to a system of reserved/unreserved coaches with reservations in reserved coaches ceasing to be marked. This would mean reservations could be made at any time, and could be offered by default at TVMs etc. If you know you've got a seat and you know which one (and you picked it on screen), why scrabble to board first?

It has really worked to civilise low-cost airlines, and it could civilise longer-distance trains too.

 

[Deepgreen]

Part of the problem is caused by the scrabble for seats, which is caused by the fact that (a) there are now more passengers than seats on a good many trains, and (b) unlike Mk1/Mk2 stock not all seats are the same.

I think increased use of reservations would help matters, which leads me to my proposal I've made a few times that we should move to a system of reserved/unreserved coaches with reservations in reserved coaches ceasing to be marked. This would mean reservations could be made at any time, and could be offered by default at TVMs etc. If you know you've got a seat and you know which one (and you picked it on screen), why scrabble to board first?

It has really worked to civilise low-cost airlines, and it could civilise longer-distance trains too.

Ghastly idea - the 'turn up and go' concept would be further eroded until we reach the Amtrak model which is an airline on rails. I don't want the railway to be just like an airline - it should have fundamentally different principles. An increase in seat reservations will lead to even more disputes and an even less spontaneous regime for travel. In any case, when has the knowledge that one (may) have a reserved seat ever stopped the scramble at airports? Never in my experience.

 

[edwin_m]

Dedicating whole coaches to reserved seating doesn't work, because there will always be a few seats available in the reserved coach due to no-shows and people boarding/alighting at intermediate stations. So, if the train is crowded, others without reservations will always be coming to look for empty seats even if the coach is nominally fully reserved. The labels or displays allow those people to choose any seats that are genuinely available.

Also, when on a quiet off-peak train, I nearly always sit elsewhere from the seat I am reserved in because reservations are grouped into one part of the train and the rest is often nearly empty so I can be somewhere quieter and with more space to work. I don't do this if the train is going to be busy and I always book a seat anyway in case the train is unexpectedly crowded or short-formed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed one vacant seat is just like any other vacant seat

In a modern MU no it's not. Some prefer window, some prefer aisle. Some prefer a window view, some not. Some want extra legroom, some don't need it.

My personal preference is a priority window seat near the coach end facing inwards (so I can look out down the length of the coach). If that is available and I know the train will get busy so others will end up sitting next to me anyway, I have no qualms about taking it next to someone, though as I am a big bloke I might consider not doing so if I might intimidate e.g. a lone female traveller. Another bloke can move his bag, though!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dedicating whole coaches to reserved seating doesn't work, because there will always be a few seats available in the reserved coach due to no-shows and people boarding/alighting at intermediate stations. So, if the train is crowded, others without reservations will always be coming to look for empty seats even if the coach is nominally fully reserved. The labels or displays allow those people to choose any seats that are genuinely available.

The guard could of course walk through and release unclaimed reservations back into the system. But I think we also need to solve that problem, and a reservation fee (say £2) with a refund of £1 for cancelling an unwanted reservation would to me be a good solution. Put a value on something and people consider much more how they should best get that value - see carrier bags for an example.

Also, when on a quiet off-peak train, I nearly always sit elsewhere from the seat I am reserved in because reservations are grouped into one part of the train and the rest is often nearly empty so I can be somewhere quieter and with more space to work. I don't do this if the train is going to be busy and I always book a seat anyway in case the train is unexpectedly crowded or short-formed.

Seat selection is the "killer app" that solves that one.

 

[Deepgreen]

In a modern MU no it's not. Some prefer window, some prefer aisle. Some prefer a window view, some not. Some want extra legroom, some don't need it.

My personal preference is a priority window seat near the coach end facing inwards (so I can look out down the length of the coach). If that is available and I know the train will get busy so others will end up sitting next to me anyway, I have no qualms about taking it next to someone, though as I am a big bloke I might consider not doing so if I might intimidate e.g. a lone female traveller. Another bloke can move his bag, though!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The guard could of course walk through and release unclaimed reservations back into the system. But I think we also need to solve that problem, and a reservation fee (say £2) with a refund of £1 for cancelling an unwanted reservation would to me be a good solution. Put a value on something and people consider much more how they should best get that value - see carrier bags for an example.



Seat selection is the "killer app" that solves that one.

I remember them!

 

[trainophile]

I'm on an ATW train and the seat reservation slips haven't been changed from the inbound journey.

If someone gets on and says they have a reservation for the seat I'm in, do I have to move?

There's no sign of a guard since we left Manchester. Wonder if one will get on at Crewe.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I'm on an ATW train and the seat reservation slips haven't been changed from the inbound journey.

If someone gets on and says they have a reservation for the seat I'm in, do I have to move?

There's no sign of a guard since we left Manchester. Wonder if one will get on at Crewe.

I would politely ask them to show me their seat reservation as proof.

A number of times I've seen disputes between two people who both claim to have the same seat reserved only for it for turn out that one of them is looking at a seat reservation for a different leg of their journey!

 

[trainophile]

I would politely ask them to show me their seat reservation as proof.

A number of times I've seen disputes between two people who both claim to have the same seat reserved only for it for turn out that one of them is looking at a seat reservation for a different leg of their journey!

Oh I wasn't querying their genuineness, just wondering if it is still valid when there's no tickets on the seat backs to say that reservations apply.

Edit: It hasn't happened yet!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Traditionally if reservations were not placed they were not valid. But TOCs do seem to be moving towards the idea that they always stand regardless of whether they are marked or not, possibly because a lot more people reserve than used to.

 

[trainophile]

Traditionally if reservations were not placed they were not valid. But TOCs do seem to be moving towards the idea that they always stand regardless of whether they are marked or not, possibly because a lot more people reserve than used to.

That's interesting. Bet it could cause some unpleasantness if a dispute broke out .

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's interesting. Bet it could cause some unpleasantness if a dispute broke out .

I personally think (at least on VTWC) it's a common enough occurrence that there should be an industry-wide decision on it and clear posters/stickers displayed in all stock that is designed to be reservable (everything with numbered seats) explaining what the policy is.

 

[Flamingo]

I DO walk through the train pulling out the no-show reservations. It can be up to a third of them. And it is not uncommon to have the person sitting in the unreserved seat beside / across from it to say "That's my seat", sometimes followed by "I'll move into it if the train gets busy"...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I DO walk through the train pulling out the no-show reservations. It can be up to a third of them. And it is not uncommon to have the person sitting in the unreserved seat beside / across from it to say "That's my seat", sometimes followed by "I'll move into it if the train gets busy"...

I'm assuming "sit in it or lose it" is the response

 

[edwin_m]

Seat selection is the "killer app" that solves that one.

I think it would be a bit anti-social to choose, say, a single seat in a table of four. And in any case I have no control over who books afterwards and if I end up surrounded by three drunken students I'd rather sit elsewhere anyway.

So I'm quite happy to take my chance with the vacant seats on a train that's probably going to be quiet, and having sat elsewhere I won't try to claim my reservation later.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it would be a bit anti-social to choose, say, a single seat in a table of four.

Not really. It depends on the reason why you want a table of four, e.g. you may need a full-size table to be able to open a larger laptop properly, this usually can't be done on an airline seat table due to the rake of the seat back.

Or on a VT Pendolino it might just be because you want a power socket; these are only at tables.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm assuming "sit in it or lose it" is the response

Something like that

 

[trainophile]

Not really. It depends on the reason why you want a table of four, e.g. you may need a full-size table to be able to open a larger laptop properly, this usually can't be done on an airline seat table due to the rake of the seat back.

Or on a VT Pendolino it might just be because you want a power socket; these are only at tables.

That's one of my pet annoyances, people who plonk a large MacBook (it generally is one!) in the middle of the table, and open the lid so that it is practically in my face when I'm sitting opposite. Worse when they then proceed to spread paperwork over the rest of the available space. I wish tables had a cross marked on them, to indicate that you are only entitled to occupy a quarter of it!

(Nothing against MacBooks, I'm using one now at home, it's just that almost all laptop users on trains seem to have one.)

 

[anti-pacer]

Pushing in must be a Southern thing as I've yet to see it up here.

I last saw it at Gatwick Airport. As a result some people couldn't get off!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pushing in must be a Southern thing as I've yet to see it up here.

The absolute worst I have seen is on TPE around Manchester, where people were even ducking under my arm to board before I had even removed it from the open button, let alone having had chance to alight. Indeed, the behaviour of a significant subset of passengers on TPE North West is nothing short of disgusting - often alcohol-fuelled - you never see it quite that bad on the south WCML even on the Saturday evening vomit comets.

 

[anti-pacer]

The absolute worst I have seen is on TPE around Manchester, where people were even ducking under my arm to board before I had even removed it from the open button, let alone having had chance to alight. Indeed, the behaviour of a significant subset of passengers on TPE North West is nothing short of disgusting - often alcohol-fuelled - you never see it quite that bad on the south WCML even on the Saturday evening vomit comets.

Do you get the overwhelming urge to yank them backwards?