Passengers 'help clear tree from line'

[Flamingo]

I have a EN 471:2007 Class 3 Hi-Vis Jacket, in orange, no less. Am I Prince Super-Charming?

Definitely!

 

[ushawk]

Ah ok, that makes sense - but what if it happened on an electrified line for example, im guessing train crew wouldnt touch it - sorry for the questions, just ive no idea

 

[Flamingo]

Ah ok, that makes sense - but what if it happened on an electrified line for example, im guessing train crew wouldnt touch it - sorry for the questions, just ive no idea

Correct, unless every part of it is over 9ft from the nearest electric, but even then they would be reluctant to leave the train of the OLE was live unless life or death.

O L Leigh is better at this, he works AC. In 3rd rail land the same thing, 4th rail land then NOBODY leaves the train.

 

[O L Leigh]

Correct.

But then I would NEVER attempt to clear a fallen tree on the lines I work over, as any such obstruction is likely to be in contact with the OLE or will have brought them down. Consequently NO-ONE is getting outside of the train, not even me.

O L Leigh

 

[Marvin]

Where are all these fragile diabetic passengers coming from all of a sudden?

The same place as all those fragile, heart-attack-waiting-to-happen passengers who nevertheless volunteer to help shift a tree off the tracks.:roll:

 

[Clip]

Once upon a time, there was beautiful princess who was a fragile diabetic blind wheelchair user with asthma and a heart condition.

She decided one day to take a train journey to meet her prince charming, but an evil ogre of a Train Guard accosted her. "You do not have a disabled rail card, you are on the wrong train with your advanced ticket, and also I have pulled the pascom while I wait for Network Rail to come and remove a leaf from the track that we cannot drive over because the train might derail if we do" he told her. "While we are sitting here I am going to issue you a penalty fare, and a UPFN, and do an MG11, and I might even do a TIR, whilst preparing to have you put off the train at Guide Bridge, despite the ramp not fitting that platform, because to do otherwise is against 'Elf and Safety." he continued, with an evil laugh!

However, a brave Prince Charming was listening, and donning his magic Hi-Vis vest which rendered him invincible, took out his iPhone, and switching the video on, instantly uploaded it to YouTube, where it was seen by a brave Daily Mail journalist and attracted 500 comments and 4000000 views in five minutes. As soon as he saw the camera, the evil Guard vanished in a puff of smoke (or into his back cab for a smoke), and brave Prince Charming opened the emergency egress, pushing the beautiful princess up the 4foot as if they had stayed on the train he would have collapsed with dehydration and claustrophobia, and also had a panic attack.

And Prince Charming and the princess lived happily ever after.

The End

Brilliant

 

[Daniel]

4th rail land then NOBODY leaves the train.

'cept us, 'guv!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I have just made myself a little bit sad by being annoyed at the line being referred to as the "Shakespeare Line"

I hate pedantry and it is rife on this forum, but please, it's the North Warwick (or North Warwickshire) line!

(Yes, I am now aware that I am part of the problem.)

 

[Smethwickian]

I have just made myself a little bit sad by being annoyed at the line being referred to as the "Shakespeare Line"

I hate pedantry and it is rife on this forum, but please, it's the North Warwick (or North Warwickshire) line!

(Yes, I am now aware that I am part of the problem.)

Perhaps you had better inform the Shakespeare Line Promotion Group that its own name is incorrect, then ( www.shakespeareline.com ) and also tell London Midland that it is incorrectly referring to the Shakespeare Line in publicity ( http://www.londonmidland.com/news/l...and-celebrates-100-years-of-shakespeare-line/ ) and on some station signs. I am sure they are both incorrect and you are right, of course.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Meh, rebranding. It was like when somebody tried to rename the Cherwell Valley the Oxford Canal Line. Birmingham to Stratford via Shirley is the North Warwick!

 

[DXMachina]

Passengers have been made to disembark from 4-rail trains on the met line in very recent history after tree incidents, and walked either down the line to stations or into another train on an adjacent track that then moved off under power

 

[wensley]

Regards 4th rail evacuation, you would have been supervised when walking 'on or about the line' and an isolation of the live rail would have been obtained, another call needed to turn the juice back on before your other train moved off, no chances can be taken with OLE or live rails. You would get a bit more than a nip from that voltage. I agree with the point of view that non-trained passengers should not be allowed on the line other than in an evacuation. Trained rail staff off duty might be more acceptable if suitable protection obtained from the signaller and control had authorised it. The whole situation reminds me of an incident when there
was a sizeable tent collapsed in the 6 foot of a running line, near to an AHBC. From a distance if looked a bit like a body and was clearly fouling one of the running lines, not an ideal situation. I rang it into the signaller on the crossing phone, deciding it was best for him to make the decision. When he finally believed that I wasn't taking the **** he asked for details and thanked me. Turned out he then blocked the Longlands Loop, diverting freight through Northallerton station until an MOM could attend some hours later. Surely a passing train could have been requested to 'Stop and Examine', signaller clearly wasn't for taking any risks

 

[tsr]

Regards 4th rail evacuation, you would have been supervised when walking 'on or about the line' and an isolation of the live rail would have been obtained, another call needed to turn the juice back on before your other train moved off, no chances can be taken with OLE or live rails. You would get a bit more than a nip from that voltage. I agree with the point of view that non-trained passengers should not be allowed on the line other than in an evacuation. Trained rail staff off duty might be more acceptable if suitable protection obtained from the signaller and control had authorised it. The whole situation reminds me of an incident when there
was a sizeable tent collapsed in the 6 foot of a running line, near to an AHBC. From a distance if looked a bit like a body and was clearly fouling one of the running lines, not an ideal situation. I rang it into the signaller on the crossing phone, deciding it was best for him to make the decision. When he finally believed that I wasn't taking the **** he asked for details and thanked me. Turned out he then blocked the Longlands Loop, diverting freight through Northallerton station until an MOM could attend some hours later. Surely a passing train could have been requested to 'Stop and Examine', signaller clearly wasn't for taking any risks

Hang on a second... it took several hours for someone to turn up to see if there was a seriously or fatally injured person on the track? Even though it turned out that it was a tent, that sounds like a bit of a long time, especially since it was near a crossing, where it wouldn't be impossible for a member of the public to wander onto the track. I would think Stop and Examine would have been far more appropriate.

 

[wensley]

Its a little used crossing, and it was a windy there so it might have blown there just before I passed by!! I did think the reaction was a bit OTT but a diversion is easy in that location so signaller may have thought it the easiest option

 

[tsr]

Its a little used crossing, and it was a windy there so it might have blown there just before I passed by!! I did think the reaction was a bit OTT but a diversion is easy in that location so signaller may have thought it the easiest option

My point is that really they should investigate injuries or fatalities as promptly as possible, both to prevent any unavoidable further injuries and, less importantly, any delays. If it would be quicker to Stop and Examine, why not do that? It's not the suggestion that it was OTT that worries me - and if a diversion is that easy, by all means divert the majority of the traffic.

 

[AlexS]

Too much hand wringing and whingeing from certain members of the forum I feel. The line's blocked (obviously, there's a tree on it, and you'd assume the crew as a result had contacted the controlling signaller) so no other trains should appear. What do you do? Just sit there twiddling your thumbs until a very busy Network Rail bod can appear in a van to remove the tree/branches from what is essentially a branchline with little priority in the scheme of things - you could be there hours?

Or, as you've got people who are ready and willing to help, and a few tools to do so, do you just get on with it and be on your way. I subscribe to the latter. There's no OHLE to worry about, no 3rd rail, no nothing. It's a very much overspecified branchline these days and I would expect the risk to all concerned to be minimal. The West Coast Mainline at Camden it ain't.

 

[GearJammer]

Too much hand wringing and whingeing from certain members of the forum I feel. The line's blocked (obviously, there's a tree on it, and you'd assume the crew as a result had contacted the controlling signaller) so no other trains should appear. What do you do? Just sit there twiddling your thumbs until a very busy Network Rail bod can appear in a van to remove the tree/branches from what is essentially a branchline with little priority in the scheme of things - you could be there hours?

Or, as you've got people who are ready and willing to help, and a few tools to do so, do you just get on with it and be on your way. I subscribe to the latter. There's no OHLE to worry about, no 3rd rail, no nothing. It's a very much overspecified branchline these days and I would expect the risk to all concerned to be minimal. The West Coast Mainline at Camden it ain't.

Thanks, this is just what i was thinking reading the thread, i agree with you!

This is what (despite being a lifelong railway enthusiast) really pi**es me off about the modern railway, everyone is so wrapped up in health and safty that no commen sence is ever used, why are people going on about overhead or 3rd rail electricity supply? It was'nt an issue, some people just like making problems!

I hope the story is true, and passengers and train crew did move the tree (not that i should think it was a big tree if it could be man handled out the way) it would be a victory for commen sence and good thinking!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If someone reports a body lying beside the line, I'd expect the MOM and the emergency services to be there ASAP.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm really glad that so many untrained people are willing to step up and offer to help. I'm even more pleased that so many untrained people are willing to tell me how to do my job.

If anybody wishes to know what potentially happens when untrained people step in to help, and take over, read this thread here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56738

With the best will in the world, and from the best motives, they can end up with serious consequences.

Anyway, as has been said, nobody seems to know if the "passengers" on the train were railway staff or not. I would assume they were.

 

[wensley]

My point is that really they should investigate injuries or fatalities as promptly as possible, both to prevent any unavoidable further injuries and, less importantly, any delays. If it would be quicker to Stop and Examine, why not do that? It's not the suggestion that it was OTT that worries me - and if a diversion is that easy, by all means divert the majority of the traffic.

I should probably have been clearer!! My first glimpse made me think it was a person but a harder look showed it was definitely a tent it was a tent that I reported to the signaller!!! A body and I would probably have done something about it myself

 

[tsr]

I should probably have been clearer!! My first glimpse made me think it was a person but a harder look showed it was definitely a tent it was a tent that I reported to the signaller!!! A body and I would probably have done something about it myself

Oh, I see! In that case, fair enough that they responded in a less urgent way. Isn't a tent lightweight enough to be dragged away from the line by yourself (I am assuming you have no physical disability that prevents you from doing so - forgive me if I'm wrong!)? I know that can be a serious issue when something like that ends up under a train, so I understand why action has to be taken. There was an incident yesterday when a plastic sheet got caught in the conductor shoe of a train at Peckham Rye, and consequently the power was turned off while the train driver removed it (according to Southern's Twitter feed). This delayed services by about 20 minutes.

Unless it was a really big tent...

 

[LCC106]

Thanks, this is just what i was thinking reading the thread, i agree with you!

Agreed!

everyone is so wrapped up in health and safty that no common sense is ever used...

Very true! Although under these circumstances the crew would probably be held responsible for any accident / injury to the helpers, I would imagine. OK, answering this from a hypothetical viewpoint, but I think if passengers had shown me a PTS card I'd be comfortable letting them help.

 

[networkrail1]

Am i missing something here

I went to the link that is on the first page and there is no mention whatsoever of anyone getting off a train to help remove a tree.

All i can find was a train was hit by a tree and passengers had to be de-trained and put onto another train to carry on with their journey, no where does it say anyone removed a tree.

All the best.

Simon

 

[wensley]

Oh, I see! In that case, fair enough that they responded in a less urgent way. Isn't a tent lightweight enough to be dragged away from the line by yourself (I am assuming you have no physical disability that prevents you from doing so - forgive me if I'm wrong!)? I know that can be a serious issue when something like that ends up under a train, so I understand why action has to be taken. There was an incident yesterday when a plastic sheet got caught in the conductor shoe of a train at Peckham Rye, and consequently the power was turned off while the train driver removed it (according to Southern's Twitter feed). This delayed services by about 20 minutes.

Unless it was a really big tent...

I could easily have moved the offending tent, it was maybe 100yds off the level crossing, in the 6ft. I don't know if the signaller could have asked if I could remove it safely (?) although I would imagine he wouldn't want to take the risk. I wasn't going to go onto the line at a point where there is limited warning of approaching trains, due to a curve in one direction and a bridge portal (under the ECML) obscuring sight of approaching trains, felt Network Rail could do their own thing, last thing I want is to be caught out on the line with a 1000t+ freight train bearing down on me!!!!!

 

[LCC106]

Am i missing something here

I went to the link that is on the first page and there is no mention whatsoever of anyone getting off a train to help remove a tree.

Good point and goes to show I hadn't read the link properly - just the forum headline! Unless I too am missing something!

 

[S19]

What a nonsense thread.

 

[Whistler40145]

This shouldn't have ever happened. The H & S people will be doing their nuts, not to mention the Traincrew's line managers, BTP, Network Rail, Emergency Services.

I hope individuals will think of their own safety & wellbeing in future.

Also, why didn't the Signaller call the Fire Brigade to remove the tree?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm really glad that so many untrained people are willing to step up and offer to help. I'm even more pleased that so many untrained people are willing to tell me how to do my job.

+1

Frankly I will continue to apply the requirements of the Rule Book and my employer's policies under the guidance of the controller without giving any thought to what anyone else might think. I don't care if you think it's madness or not because this is the job I do and I happen to want to hang on to it.

O L Leigh

 

[zn1]

Good on the passengers, i applaud them for getting the road clear!! it probably took minutes instead of waiting for hours...


too much nannying these days and NR should be thanking the punters and train crew for doing the job !! - if the roads blocked it needs clearing and if there are train load of men sitting doing nought who can clear it - then get on with it and to nuts with the rules.....rules can be bent and twisted

I certainly would have got out and helped clear it !!

the area was blocked to traffic, it would have stayed blocked till the P-way came - so whats the big deal - it allowed the P-way to deal with much more urgent issues !!

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Bit of a fictitious story!
A lot of interesting points.
H&S is a pain in the ass, but it saves many injuries and deaths a year. That has to be a good thing.
If a train is held up for 3 hours because of an obstruction on the line, but more importantly everyone arrives at their destination safely, so be it!
Cutting trees can be dangerous, branches/ tree springing etc. Trees are always heavier than they look!
But I hope that in 'exceptional circumstances' the crew would react accordingly.
Eg the passengers were frightened, the train was in danger from more falling trees, water pouring down the bank (risk of landslide) etc.