Paddington to Farringdon connection question

[ngood77]

If a booked train is mentioned in an itinerary on an Advance ticket then you must travel on it (unless disruption prevents you from doing so). The only exceptions relevent to your journey involve Thameslink as referenced above.

The ticketing guide and Advance FAQs suggest that where no seat reservation has been made then later, or earlier, connecting trains can be boarded.

Anyway, all academic in my case because my itin doesn’t meet the MCT and hence I can miss the TL train without penalty even if I arrive at Farringdon on time.

I guess, from a customer pov, trip.com has been beneficial here. I’ve saved £7 (when considering the outbound journey too) compared to Trainsplit, and another £2.40 due to promotional discounts, with the only downside of having to travel c. 10 mins extra across London, albeit on nicer trains.

Are trip.com unique in this way, and why are their systems different ?

 

[arb]

Not disputing the itinerary is invalid, but, as others have said, you should be able to make the connection.

It's been hinted at but not said explicitly: the itinerary has given you 17 minutes to get from the main Paddington station to the Elizabeth Line. That is easily done, and I expect you'll end up on an Elizabeth Line train that departs several minutes earlier than the one in your itinerary, thus giving you more than the suggested 4 minutes to make the connection onto the Thameslink service at Farringdon.

I do a journey involving a Paddington to Farringdon connection 3 or 4 times a year, with a large suitcase, and assuming there's no disruption, I've always managed to make an "unofficial" connection from a xx:29 arrival in Paddington onto a xx:56 departure from Farringdon (2 minutes less than you've been given), with several minutes to spare. So it probably takes just over 20 minutes.

If you're at all worried it may help to know the route you need to take to minimise walking distance. This is from memory, so happy to be corrected by anyone who does the journey more often than me:

• Get off the train at Paddington, go towards the front of the train and through the barriers to the main concourse
• Turn right, heading towards to platform 1
• Leave the station at the exit near platform 1
• The escalators to the Elizabeth Line are in front of you
• Go down the first escalator, and then continue straight ahead through the ticket barriers in front of you (don't use the barriers behind you)
• Go down the second escalator, the line you want is on the right when you get to the bottom
• Keep going ahead from the bottom of the escalator towards the end of the platform, so you end up near the back of the train when it arrives
• Get off at Farringdon, and look for the lifts, which are in the exit route near the back of the train
• Use the lift to go the middle of the three floors available. The floors are bizarrely numbered, I forget exactly how, but something like 0, -2 and -7. Whatever they are, pick the middle one.
• The lift brings you out directly onto the southbound Thameslink platform for trains towards London Bridge

 

[yorkie]

The ticketing guide and Advance FAQs suggest that where no seat reservation has been made then later, or earlier, connecting trains can be boarded.

You have 'counted place' reservations, which operators such as Southeastern, Greater Anglia, GTRbahs Chiltern and WMT do instead of allocating specific seats.

Anyway, all academic in my case because my itin doesn’t meet the MCT and hence I can miss the TL train without penalty even if I arrive at Farringdon on time.

You wouldn't miss it , if you go straight there and don't have restricted mobility.

I guess, from a customer pov, trip.com has been beneficial here. I’ve saved £7 (when considering the outbound journey too) compared to Trainsplit,

How did it save £7? Can you provide more information so we can understand what's going on here please

and another £2.40 due to promotional discounts, with the only downside of having to travel c. 10 mins extra across London, albeit on nicer trains.

It's backed up by Chinese investors, hence the discounts.

Are trip.com unique in this way, and why are their systems different ?

They do seem to lack a full and proper understanding of our ticketing system, based on what I have seen.

 

[Hadders]

The ticketing guide and Advance FAQs suggest that where no seat reservation has been made then later, or earlier, connecting trains can be boarded.

The Thameslink train and the Southeastern trains in your itinerary do have seat reservations and you have what is called a counted place reservation for them. A counted place reservation isn't an actual seat but gives you a place on the train which is a workaround so that these train companies can offer Advance tickets.

For reasons which I have explained above Thameslink do not enforce reservations on their trains where they are a connection but there is no suc heasement for Southeastern.

As we have also explained the itinerary trip.com have given you does not appear to be compliant and this could cause you to miss the booked connection at Farringdon (which doesn't matter as far as the reservations are concerned) and at London Bridge where you might have to explain what has happened. I would not unduly worry about this, if you do encounter hassle en-route then Trip.com ought to assist you and forum members would assist in proof reading an appropriately worded letter to Southeastern. Even though the itinerary is non-compliant under normal circuumstances there is sufficient time to make the booked connection from London Bridge.

Just to clarify, your ticket does not give you the right to break your journey at Farringdon and resume it later in the day. If you do this I would not expect a hassle free journey and taking a later train from London Bridge.

 

[ngood77]

Not disputing the itinerary is invalid, but, as others have said, you should be able to make the connection.

It's been hinted at but not said explicitly: the itinerary has given you 17 minutes to get from the main Paddington station to the Elizabeth Line. That is easily done, and I expect you'll end up on an Elizabeth Line train that departs several minutes earlier than the one in your itinerary, thus giving you more than the suggested 4 minutes to make the connection onto the Thameslink service at Farringdon.

I do a journey involving a Paddington to Farringdon connection 3 or 4 times a year, with a large suitcase, and assuming there's no disruption, I've always managed to make an "unofficial" connection from a xx:29 arrival in Paddington onto a xx:56 departure from Farringdon (2 minutes less than you've been given), with several minutes to spare. So it probably takes just over 20 minutes.

If you're at all worried it may help to know the route you need to take to minimise walking distance. This is from memory, so happy to be corrected by anyone who does the journey more often than me:

• Get off the train at Paddington, go towards the front of the train and through the barriers to the main concourse
• Turn right, heading towards to platform 1
• Leave the station at the exit near platform 1
• The escalators to the Elizabeth Line are in front of you
• Go down the first escalator, and then continue straight ahead through the ticket barriers in front of you (don't use the barriers behind you)
• Go down the second escalator, the line you want is on the right when you get to the bottom
• Keep going ahead from the bottom of the escalator towards the end of the platform, so you end up near the back of the train when it arrives
• Get off at Farringdon, and look for the lifts, which are in the exit route near the back of the train
• Use the lift to go the middle of the three floors available. The floors are bizarrely numbered, I forget exactly how, but something like 0, -2 and -7. Whatever they are, pick the middle one.
• The lift brings you out directly onto the southbound Thameslink platform for trains towards London Bridge

Thanks muchly. Always been comfortable with having enough time to make the connections, I just wanted clarity on where I stand officially.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2024 ==

You have 'counted place' reservations, which operators such as Southeastern, Greater Anglia, GTRbahs Chiltern and WMT do instead of allocating specific seats.

Ok that’s useful to know, thanks for clarifying.

How did it save £7? Can you provide more information so we can understand what's going on here please

£20 each way rather than £23.50.

It's hacked up by Chinese investors hence the discounts.

Did you mean backed ? If you meant hacked I think I’ll close my account

They do seem to lack a full and proper understanding of our ticketing system, based on what I have seen.

Ok fair enough.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2024 ==

The Thameslink train and the Southeastern trains in your itinerary do have seat reservations and you have what is called a counted place reservation for them. A counted place reservation isn't an actual seat but gives you a place on the train which is a workaround so that these train companies can offer Advance tickets.

For reasons which I have explained above Thameslink do not enforce reservations on their trains where they are a connection but there is no suc heasement for Southeastern.

As we have also explained the itinerary trip.com have given you does not appear to be compliant and this could cause you to miss the booked connection at Farringdon (which doesn't matter as far as the reservations are concerned) and at London Bridge where you might have to explain what has happened. I would not unduly worry about this, if you do encounter hassle en-route then Trip.com ought to assist you and forum members would assist in proof reading an appropriately worded letter to Southeastern. Even though the itinerary is non-compliant under normal circuumstances there is sufficient time to make the booked connection from London Bridge.

Just to clarify, your ticket does not give you the right to break your journey at Farringdon and resume it later in the day. If you do this I would not expect a hassle free journey and taking a later train from London Bridge.

Yes indeed, thanks

 

[yorkie]

£20 each way rather than £23.50.

Can you provide more information regarding the itineraries, so this can be looked into?

 

[ngood77]

Can you provide more information regarding the itineraries, so this can be looked into?

My bad, it seems that prices have gone up since I booked the tickets, so I take the cost saving back. I’ll assume that Trainsplit would have given me £20 price too.

Thanks everybody for your help, I think that’s it for the time being. Choo-choo

 

[Mcr Warrior]

£20.00 appears to be the very lowest price tier available for a through (no splits) Chippenham->Tonbridge, Std Advance Single ticket, routed either "AP Reading" or "✠AP Slough". £23.50 is the next price tier up, after that.

 

[ngood77]

£20.00 appears to be the very lowest price tier available for a through (no splits) Chippenham->Tonbridge, Std Advance Single ticket, routed either "AP Reading" or "✠AP Slough". £23.50 is the next price tier up, after that.

Indeed, glad I got in at the right time.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

£20.00 appears to be the very lowest price tier available for a through (no splits) Chippenham->Tonbridge, Std Advance Single ticket, routed either "AP Reading" or "✠AP Slough".

You perhaps wonder then why the booking engine came up with the convoluted route across London via Farringdon, rather than the more obvious route directly on the Bakerloo to Charing Cross. Even to London Bridge, it would have been possible via the Jubiliee Line with a cross platform change at Baker Street.

 

[arb]

Presumably because it believes (due to the incorrect, too low, minimum connection time at Farringdon) that it's quicker to go that way, rather than use the (normally quite generous) connection times for a tube journey?

 

[Surreytraveller]

You perhaps wonder then why the booking engine came up with the convoluted route across London via Farringdon, rather than the more obvious route directly on the Bakerloo to Charing Cross. Even to London Bridge, it would have been possible via the Jubiliee Line with a cross platform change at Baker Street.

Via Farringdon is not a convoluted route. It is far quicker (unless Thameslink have gone down the swanny).
Trains from Charing Cross aren't that frequent either.
Although changing at Baker Street onto the Jubilee for London Bridge would be better than Charing Cross.

 

[ngood77]

TrainPal does the same but they’re one and the same group, aren’t they ?

 

[miklcct]

TrainPal does the same but they’re one and the same group, aren’t they ?

Ctrip and TrainPal are in the same Chinese group. I don't trust them after I see their journey planners returning me ridiculous routings such as suggesting me to travel via Mill Hill Broadway for a Cricklewood to Gospel Oak journey.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Via Farringdon is not a convoluted route. It is far quicker (unless Thameslink have gone down the swanny).
Trains from Charing Cross aren't that frequent either.
Although changing at Baker Street onto the Jubilee for London Bridge would be better than Charing Cross.

If the idea of Ch X is to connect to London Bridge for a train starting there, I'd anyway prefer what is probably a slightly shorter interchange from the Bakerloo at Waterloo to Waterloo East to get the London Bridge connection. Also, surely the Jubilee to mainline at London Bridge is a faff too? And if the London Bridge train is one starting back at Ch X anyway(?), then I'd certainly go for the Bakerloo at Paddington and make the one change to the main line (at Waterloo East, or Ch X). Yes, Eliz is speedier than the Bakerloo, but if it means an extra change I'd always choose the latter.

 

[Horizon22]

Via Farringdon is not a convoluted route. It is far quicker (unless Thameslink have gone down the swanny).
Trains from Charing Cross aren't that frequent either.
Although changing at Baker Street onto the Jubilee for London Bridge would be better than Charing Cross.

Around 1830, there's about a 5 minute difference between the two.

30 minutes for Tube (either Bakerloo/Jubilee or Elizabeth/Jubilee) or 35 minutes via Farringdon/Thameslink. It's ~25 minutes to Charing Cross and 8 minutes to London Bridge. So its all very similar and will depend very much if you have just missed a service/connection or not.

 

[redreni]

Via Farringdon is not a convoluted route. It is far quicker (unless Thameslink have gone down the swanny).
Trains from Charing Cross aren't that frequent either.
Although changing at Baker Street onto the Jubilee for London Bridge would be better than Charing Cross.

At that time in the evening I'd have been inclined, when booking, to try to force an itinerary where I could board the Tonbridge train at Charing Cross, purely because if you try to board it at Waterloo East or London Bridge then it might be rather difficult to find a seat. If you have a reserved seat this is, perhaps, less of an issue.

In this case I'd definitely stick to the itinerary, though.

 

[ngood77]

Makes you smile…

Dear Customer
After reviewing the situation, it has become clear the error was at our end. We take full responsibility for this mistake and want to assure you we are taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen in future.

To rectify the situation, please kindly change the itinerary on the App to your preferred one, and double check if the changing connection conforms to the rules. We will cover the price difference and admin fee for you once the change is done...

 

[rrapynot]

Makes you smile…

Did they end up covering the price difference and fees?

 

[ngood77]

Did they end up covering the price difference and fees?

I am happy with the itin as it is so didn’t change it but got £11 out of them to use on a future journey which I used Monday last