Paddington Station Invites Fare Dodgers

[W-on-Sea]

Yeah, I commute to Didcot too. The manual barrier is indeed there most (though not all) weekday mornings in the rush hour, but not at any other time I've used the station - be it lunchtimes, afternoons, evenings or weekends.

 

[LexyBoy]

Just being pedantic, if it was DOO then it was a ATE or RPI, not a guard. In which case their not doing a PF is hard to understand unless they just wanted a quiet life that day.

Regards your points about PF's discouraging chancers, you are preaching to the choir saying that to me

heh

Does an ATE have pretty much the same role as an RPI then (forgive my ignorance)?

How does that work with regards to people visiting the Didcot Railway Centre then?

I would imagine you just say you're going to the Railway Centre and they'd have to let you thorough. As others have said though, it's only weekday mornings so wouldn't be an issue.

Yeah, I commute to Didcot too.

You have my condolences

 

[Flamingo]

heh

Does an ATE have pretty much the same role as an RPI then (forgive my ignorance)?

I believe the difference is that an ATE can check / sell tickets and issue UFN's, an RPI can also issue Penalty Fares, and report for prosecution / take statements under PACE.

I don't see enough of either to have an in-depth knowledge!

Anybody else able to fill in the gaps a bit more?

 

[Greenback]

You are correct Flamingo. I was approached to become a Thames Trains RPI in 1999, and the role was thoroughly explianed to me at that time.

 

[HSTEd]

How many stations are on the rail network?

Ie. how many RPIs would you need to put on on every station during officer hours?

 

[Muzer]

Barriers are most annoying when they involve closing using entrances - take the North entrance at Salisbury. People coming from the North now have to go all the way down the hill, under the track, and all the way back up into the South entrance.

 

[Skimble19]

You're complaining about not having to go through ticket Barriers?!
I wish they'd abolish the ghastly things altogether. Ghastly dehumanised robots. Have People checking tickets on the trains. Much more customer friendly.

Personally I wish every single FCC station had barriers for many reasons. Firstly and most importantly for preventing me from boarding a train if I've forgotten my season ticket (and the resulting embarrassment at the other end!) - as well as helping to keep people who have no intention of buying a ticket off the train. They also help improve security and at least increase the number of people WITH tickets. Certain areas on the FCC GN have no barriers at all (SAN, BIW and ARL immediately spring to mind - there's nothing at all to stop people getting between these without getting caught). Ticket inspections help, but nowhere near as much as a fully barrier'd permanently staffed (whilst services run) network.

 

[Yew]

I think barriers don't make sense outside London except in certain circumstances

 

[Flamingo]

I think barriers don't make sense outside London except in certain circumstances

That's a very Londoncentric attitude. Why do you think that fare evasion does not take place outside the capital?

 

[David Goddard]

I have always to dispute ANY statement about ticket gates improving security.

Lets cast our minds back to 7 July 2005. These events happened on the London Underground - a GATED system. It was reported that the suspects had travelled into London from Luton - a GATED station.

Every gated station I have come across has the atmosphere of the entrance to a prison. You have to be processed to go in, and processed to come out. As the example above suggests, it is also possible to smuggle in unwanted packages. The prescence of companies such as G4S at gatelines adds weight to this concept.

Our railway is a public place. We should therefore be allowed open access to it. You don't put your offering into a slot to open the door at church each week, so why should you have to do so on the railway?

 

[yorkie]

I have paid and want to know others have paid.

It is often the case in life that you do not know if others have paid. I suppose, with cars, you are more likely to know, if you want to know, as you could do your own inspections in pay & display car parks, or check VED tax discs. But unless you're a ticket examiner, you will not know who has paid (or who has a free pass!) for a rail ticket.

If the suggestion is that the existence of barrier checks means that people have paid, then I refute that suggestion, although barriers can check that a ticket is held of some validity at that particular location, but nothing more than that.

... and you are invited by a sign to touch in or out with a lonely person asking those halfway down the platform en-route to or from platforms 13 and 14 to pause veer off course and use the open barriers to validate or end their journey if they have an Oyster card.
If you are in the front two coaches you are beyond this sad line of gates and can just walk straight out to the new taxi rank, to the underground station or just plain out.

If anyone walks out of the station without touching their Oyster card out, then if they are using PAYG, they will be charged more for their journey.

Are you suggesting that people are overpaying by not touching out because it is not easy to see where to touch out?

 

[WestCoast]

I have always to dispute ANY statement about ticket gates improving security.

Lets cast our minds back to 7 July 2005. These events happened on the London Underground - a GATED system. It was reported that the suspects had travelled into London from Luton - a GATED station.

I don't think that's the kind of 'security' TOCs and pro-barrier individuals are talking about. They are referring to deterring undesirables, who are often ticketless, from loitering on stations.

Our railway is a public place. We should therefore be allowed open access to it. You don't put your offering into a slot to open the door at church each week, so why should you have to do so on the railway?

Yes, it's a place where the public are allowed to access providing they have a decent reason for being there (i.e. not up to no good), but it's not really a "public place" like a town square or suchlike.

 

[cjp]

If the suggestion is that the existence of barrier checks means that people have paid, then I refute that suggestion, although barriers can check that a ticket is held of some validity at that particular location, but nothing more than that.

If anyone walks out of the station without touching their Oyster card out, then if they are using PAYG, they will be charged more for their journey.

Are you suggesting that people are overpaying by not touching out because it is not easy to see where to touch out?

No my concern annoyance is that with the reliance on nothing more than hope - no checks in or out at platforms 12, 13 & 14 - FGW are either naive, or ****less. [that word was f e c k l e s s]
Perhaps they do not care as they are relinquishing their franchise early to avoid giving us taxpayers back some money.:-x

I Care

If I was so minded I could board at my un-gated station without touching in on and leave at Paddington without touching out.
In regions where ungated and unstaffed stations exist there are other controls to protect revenue but FGW have had nothing in place for one week.
They are stupid

And that is why I am cross.

And now this stupid system has censored f e c k l e s s

 

[crosscity]

In fact Birmingham New Street is the same, there's a lift from a few Platforms which goes straight to the Taxi Rank outside the station, by passing the barrier Staff

The lifts provide the only step-free access to and from all platforms (via a subway underneath the tracks). Occasionally (and I mean occasionally) the concourse level entrances will have ticket checking staff meeting those coming off the lifts.

Presumably when the new station is opened, the existing lifts and subway will be closed, with step-free access available via escalators and lifts from the new concourse above the platforms.

 

[swt_passenger]

No my concern annoyance is that with the reliance on nothing more than hope - no checks in or out at platforms 12, 13 & 14 - FGW are either naive, or ****less.

Or the installation isn't complete, and within a few more weeks it will be, and this 'massive problem' will be over.

 

[David Goddard]

Or the installation isn't complete, and within a few more weeks it will be, and this 'massive problem' will be over.

Indeed. Lets remember this is a temporary arrangement which will be changed back again when possible.

 

[paulravuslante]

For what it's worth, I observed quite a few ticket inspectors on the trains today between West Drayton and Paddington. On my way into work, there were two on the 0835 leaving West Drayton. Three travelled on the 1103 Heathrow Connect from Paddington to Hayes. Lastly there was at least one on the 1757 from Paddington to Reading (this was a 5 car train so there may have been others in the other portion of the train).

Also I spoke with a member of the dispatch team who confirmed a barrier would be built along platform 12. Once this is complete the stopping point for trains on platform 12 will move further away from the buffer stops (presumably so the front of the train will be nearer to the new barriers).

 

[mralexn]

FGW seem to be keen to have a "visible presence" but less keen to actually think things through. For example, at Didcot there is now always a manual barrier at the main entrance, usually manned with 3 staff members in the mornings. The gate to platform 1 (which connects to the other platforms by the subway) is never manned, so anyone wanting to dodge the fare can very easily bypass the barrier. Can't say the checks are particularly thorough IME (maybe moreso going into the station), though maybe it's the Gold Card Effect.

Maybe there thought is that this is enough to put off casual evaders who would chance it if they could walk straight onto the train but would buy a ticket if they needed to flash something ticket-sized at a person. Maybe.



If you're talking about a season ticket, then it would have no effect whatsoever. The price will go up by the maximum permitted by the government, no more and no less.

Fare evasion impacts the TOC's profits primarily (and thus indirectly the taxpayer), and TOCs may choose to increase the prices of certain unregulated fares, notably Anytimes, Advances and Day Returns to make up for this.



Such as? (genuine question, not having a go at FGW or anyone. I've not seen a great deal of "discouragement" - though I'm probably not the target audience. I certainly hope they don't take a leaf out of SWT's book and plaster everywhere with posters stating that anyone without a valid ticket will be fined).

I actually encountered a guard on a Reading-Oxford local train a couple of weeks back - I was very surprised. He then proceeded to sell a return ticket to a chap sitting near me who boarded at Tilehurst (in a PF zone). OK so it's a few quid which would otherwise be lost, but doesn't really discourage casual fare evasion. Semi-regular RPI inspections with £20 fines dished out as appropriate to those who made the "honest mistake" of thinking they could pay on board would buying a ticket worthwhile.

i think you will find too that its the people who do make the "honest mistake" of thinking that you can buy on board, will then be very discouraged for using the railway, or that train provider again.

 

[swt_passenger]

...Also I spoke with a member of the dispatch team who confirmed a barrier would be built along platform 12. Once this is complete the stopping point for trains on platform 12 will move further away from the buffer stops (presumably so the front of the train will be nearer to the new barriers).

That seems a sensible compromise. If they leave the space between the barrier and the platform edge of around 3 metres (as shown in the planning drawings) it will still be possible to use it for a full length train on occasions, but if the normal occupancy is by short trains there's no problem in ignoring the first couple of carriage lengths of the platform.

 

[Flamingo]

i think you will find too that its the people who do make the "honest mistake" of thinking that you can buy on board, will then be very discouraged for using the railway, or that train provider again.

What's your point?

(I well remember a fare evader in West Wales who, on being charged up, told me in a very disgruntled manner "This is the last time I'm using the train!". He didn't appreciate me saying "Good")

 

[Urban Gateline]

What's your point?

(I well remember a fare evader in West Wales who, on being charged up, told me in a very disgruntled manner "This is the last time I'm using the train!". He didn't appreciate me saying "Good")

Yeah, one of the basic principles of Business is that you don't care about a customer that doesn't bring you profit (ie a fare dodger).

 

[cjp]

FGW have announced that a new gateline for platform 12 comes into operation on Friday.

If what i have seen is any indication they are going to put up a barrier of sorts made out of those large plastic slabby things one sees around building sites or long term roadworks to protect the work force. In the best of all possible taste for the new station, a real piece of work in progress.

Not before time.

 

[swt_passenger]

FGW have announced that a new gateline for platform 12 comes into operation on Friday.

If what i have seen is any indication they are going to put up a barrier of sorts made out of those large plastic slabby things one sees around building sites or long term roadworks to protect the work force. In the best of all possible taste for the new station, a real piece of work in progress.

Not before time.

It will eventually be a perfectly normal glass barrier, as used in conjunction with all the other gatelines, such as on the main footbridge at Paddington.

And why the heck wouldn't it be - the design is all detailed in the relevant planning application drawings, that I have mentioned before.