Pacer line users

[sprinterguy]

Not as young as I used to be, but 21 is deinfitely a good age to be

I've got a couple of old Platform 5 books that suggest that the 143s shifted away round about the end of '92, which ties in with my dim recollections of them in the north east, so it must have been at about the time the 153s came on the scene. If they'd gone any earlier, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to remember the "roundy Pacers" (as I called them as a kid due to their more rounded profile compared to the angular 142s) at all. Other than that, I shall bow to your superior knowledge. The only other suggestion I have for moving the 143s away from Heaton in exchange for 142s is to standardise the fleet across the whole Regional Railways North East area: Neville Hill and Heaton, despite Heaton being fairly self contained anyway.

 

[Failed Unit]

Not as young as I used to be, but 21 is deinfitely a good age to be

I've got a couple of old Platform 5 books that suggest that the 143s shifted away round about the end of '92, which ties in with my dim recollections of them in the north east, so it must have been at about the time the 153s came on the scene. If they'd gone any earlier, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to remember the "roundy Pacers" (as I called them as a kid due to their more rounded profile compared to the angular 142s) at all. Other than that, I shall bow to your superior knowledge. The only other suggestion I have for moving the 143s away from Heaton in exchange for 142s is to standardise the fleet across the whole Regional Railways North East area: Neville Hill and Heaton, despite Heaton being fairly self contained anyway.

That would make sense, altough I am not sure how simular the 143s are to the 144s. Northern decided to make centres of excellance, somoene will correct me if I am wrong but I think Heaton and Newton Heath have that honour for the pacers, hence why some of them end up in South Yorkshire and I doubt Heaton sees them that often! A bit like the Inverness 158s, some spend a lot of time in the Central belt.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think that's the first time I've seen the word "excellence" in the same sentence as Pacers! With the likes of the Yorkshire 142 diagrams, the standardised fleet allocations/centres of excellence across the Northern depots may look good on paper, but the reality is a little different when there are often 142s to be seen stabled at Neville Hill, though no doubt any heavy maintenance is still undertaken on the units at Heaton.

 

[185]

The staff of Sellafield would kill for a 142.

The current works train, a 153 is rammed.

 

[Eric]

The 142s don't belong anywhere! If we are going off what BR intended they should really be on rural branches of the South West
QUOTE]

Agree and not being put on the Leeds - Morecambe services.

 

[sulli_os]

I'm going to go for the option that I never thought I would - Option B: hang on to the Pacers (for now).

I have recently been doing Sheffield - Manchester between 5 and 6, and have found the Hope Valley stopper service much better. A nice roomy Pacer with windows and 3+2 seating wins over a cramped, stuffy 15x any day.

 

[WestCoast]

I have recently been doing Sheffield - Manchester between 5 and 6, and have found the Hope Valley stopper service much better. A nice roomy Pacer with windows and 3+2 seating wins over a cramped, stuffy 15x any day.

The 3+2 Mersey Pacer seating (those damn Mersey units follow me around!) is still far from roomy! :cry:

 

[gnolife]

The 3+2 Mersey Pacer seating (those damn Mersey units follow me around!) is still far from roomy! :cry:

sooner have one of those rather than a 153, for which "roomy" would be an entirely inappropriate word

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I am tempted to say 150s then new trains. This is what the ELCRP wants, and to be honest I agree. The 1/3 and 2/3 doors are much better for boarding / alighting, and I think they have more (or at least bigger!) seats.

 

[tbtc]

About half of the 26 or so Pacer diagrams at Heaton are in South Yorkshire though, I don't know whether this has always been the case

It does confuse me that all the Pacers I see in Sheffield aren't "Yorkshire" ones - it must cost a few quid to send these units between here and Heaton - is there no scope for them to be officially maintained at Leeds/ Manchester (since we aren't important enough here for our own depot, hence EMT running through to Leeds etc)?

As for the OP's poll (which seems to have been forgotten), I can accept keeping Pacers for a few more years if it means we will be first in line for new stock. I think it'd be unfair for Northern to suffer with the Pacers for another eight and a half years, then see the next generation of local DMUs go to other TOCs and we get their cascaded 150s etc...

 

[Tracked]

150's asap, then new trains later

In the 90's we had more 150/156's on the stopping Doncaster-Sheffield services, it seems in the last few years it's been mainly 142/144's (and the odd 158 occasionally) and they're a big backward step from the Sprinters we used to get.

I don't know how safe the Pacers are in a crash & don't really want to be in the position of being able to test that, but perhaps putting them on lines such as Barnsley-Huddersfield and to Whitby where they're less likely to meet another train (or maybe the Gainsbrough Central services where they're less likely to have passangers) to work out the last few years of life, rather than them working it out on a heavily used line at near max capacity

 

[VideozVideoz]

If I had a choice, i'd say get rid of 142s and replace them with 101s!! I miss the orange and brown ones they had down in manchester (Strathclyde transport livery?)

Do Scotrail have any 142s??

 

[MidnightFlyer]

No, they don't have any 150s either.

 

[northwichcat]

No, they don't have any 150s either.

or 153s but plenty of 3 car 170s and a large number of 156s and 158s.

 

[krisk]

I don't mind the occasional pacer ride but I wouldnt be happy if I had to commiute on one. Really they were a short term fix but in this modern day they shouldn't really be in service now.

 

[tbtc]

No, they don't have any 150s either.

At least when ScotRail had 150s they were perfectly suited to the services that they ran (Fife Circle, Bathgate etc). They've done rather well out of privatisation...

 

[RPI]

theres a good old saying that a previous boss of mine used to say "you can throw as much money as you like at Camborne, but you cant polish a turd", I think the same goes for 142's! you could fit reclining leather seats and whatever into one but it will still have 4 wheels, the ride quality of P/Way trolley and the structural integrity of a caravan! I'll happily have 150's for the next 50 years if it means getting rid of these pathetic excuse for a train! but I do think one should be preserved, just so we can look at it for ever more and say "thats how not to build a train".

 

[yorksrob]

I used to really hate Pacers (and I'm still a long way off from joining the Pacvegsoc). However, they can be improved quite a bit. The proper seating does make a difference. However, I think one of the biggest problems regarding Pacers is capacity - you just can't get that many people in 'em. Perhaps with cascading more of them will be able to run in multiple.

 

[WestCoast]

The 142s are indeed turds that can't be polished.

However, as yorksrob quite rightly states, the seating does make a BIG difference. The Northern North West Pacers are predominately bus benches and Mersey slabs, whereas the Northern North East & Yorkshire Pacers are predominately high backed/proper seating.

The difference in comfort is rather large, with the Mersey pacers becoming really uncomfortable after a while for me. The bus benches are also a right pain after more than an hour.

People complain about Pendo/Desiro seating but the two types of Pacer I point out are far, far worse. I always hope for a high backed Pacer, that's how much difference it makes.

 

[Lampshade]

Keep the Pacers for now, Northern's 150/1s and most of the 150/2s are terrible, they'd only be a capacity improvement, no improvement in travelling conditions at all.

 

[WestCoast]

Keep the Pacers for now, Northern's 150/1s and most of the 150/2s are terrible, they'd only be a capacity improvement, no improvement in travelling conditions at all.

Some of Northern's 150s are in a very sorry state. The squashed seats on many of the units have seen better days!

However, it's nothing a thorough (SWT/EMT-style) interior refurb couldn't solve. Is that likely though? :roll:

 

[sprinterguy]

Some of Northern's 150s are in a very sorry state. The squashed seats on many of the units have seen better days!

However, it's nothing a thorough (SWT/EMT-style) interior refurb couldn't solve. Is that likely though? :roll:

I've got my fingers crossed that the arrival of the additional 150s from LM at Northern will precede a fleet wide refurbishment of all of Northerns' 150s to bring them up to the same, decent standard.

However, so late on in a "no growth" franchise I suspect that it will be left to the new franchise operator to effect such a refurbishment, and Northerns' passengers will have to cope with a mixed bag of uniformly scruffy and work beaten styles of 150 interior (The London Midland units are looking pretty worn and ragged as well, and the 3+2 seating is awful to begin with) for the next couple of years.

 

[Lampshade]

Some of Northern's 150s are in a very sorry state. The squashed seats on many of the units have seen better days!

However, it's nothing a thorough (SWT/EMT-style) interior refurb couldn't solve. Is that likely though? :roll:

A SWT 455-style refurb (which is what a 150 is best compared to) with 2+2 seating and Passenger Information Systems would be brilliant, but is there enough life left in them to justify a refurb of that level?

 

[sprinterguy]

A SWT 455-style refurb (which is what a 150 is best compared to) with 2+2 seating and Passenger Information Systems would be brilliant, but is there enough life left in them to justify a refurb of that level?

Given that there isn't the prospect of even a Pacer replacement yet, I feel that the 150s probably still have plenty of time left in which a thorough refurbishment would prove to be worthwhile.

 

[spionkop64]

The 144 refurbishment has made those units bearable, plus with the centre car they can soak up lots of passengers, so I guess an exception can be made for them - sort of.

I have to concur as regards Northern's 150s, some are absolutely horrid. I feel like I am sitting on (a dirty) floor when crammed onto one, particularly between LDS-BDI.

All this reminds me that I have a BDQ-MCM return to endure next month. Last time out it was a 142, packed full of students, bouncing all over the jointed track and in pouring rain. I got off the 142 and checked into the Midland Hotel - the contrast could not have been greater!

 

[150001]

The 142s have improved however they are very poor in ride quality and the their structural design can't stand up to much, making them unsafe on mainlines, so they should be restricted to branch lines and the 150s, 153s etc. work on the mainlines. I would personally keep 142s till 2017 if it was on a branchline and Class 150s come in on mainlines till 2022, or maybe longer at this rate!


I prefer the 142s to the 143s and 144s as their fronts look better and their ride quality better than the 143s. I found this out in Wales. 143609 wouldn't stop bouncing. The 142s are very smooth in Devon even on the line down to Newton Abbot at top speed. All they need is new seats.

Just to add, the 150s like northern's could do with a south west trains refurbishment (see avatar) with new interiors and completely repainted outside. Shame no 150s are going to EMT...

 

[Wyvern]

Thought I'd have a trip out to Ashbourne on the bus.
Never again.
It was like riding on a tea trolley. I'm sure all my teeth have come loose.
Dont complain about pacers!

 

[WestCoast]

Thought I'd have a trip out to Ashbourne on the bus.
Never again.
It was like riding on a tea trolley. I'm sure all my teeth have come loose.
Dont complain about pacers!

But a Pacer isn't a bus (well, it is really but anyway), so we compare the ride to other trains.

Buses have always been a bit rattly and bouncy, much more so at higher speeds!

 

[northwichcat]

Thought I'd have a trip out to Ashbourne on the bus.
Never again.
It was like riding on a tea trolley. I'm sure all my teeth have come loose.
Dont complain about pacers!

Even fairly new buses can provide an uncomfortable ride. The problem isn't usually the buses but the state of the road they are running on. Buses can't drive around pot holes like cars can without crashing in to oncoming traffic.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Anyone who complains about Pacers / buses being bouncy, do Altrincham-Navigation Rd on a tram. I'm sure two members of staff will back me up in saying that it is 10x worse than a Pacer or bus could ever be.