Oyster Card early return charge

[John @ home]

The documents associated with the TfL 2015 price increase announcement tell us that an Oyster Card early return charge will be introduced in 2015.

1.15 The Oyster card deposit remains unchanged at £5. An early return charge of £3.00 will be introduced in 2015. This will apply to Oyster cards issued after January 2015 and returned for a refund of the balance and deposit within one month of purchase. TfL continues to issue around 1 million new Oyster cards each month, with many returned within a few weeks of purchase.

http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/MD1418%202015%20Fares%20for%20submission%20%28signed%29%20PDF.pdf

 

[Bletchleyite]

The documents associated with the TfL 2015 price increase announcement tell us that an Oyster Card early return charge will be introduced in 2015.

I imagine the admin cost of returning deposits is quite high. When Oyster changes to the back-office-processed system as I believe is the plan (cheaper cards than the current smart ones) I would expect a move to a card fee rather than deposit, TBH.

Neil

 

[gordonthemoron]

nice little earner from tourists

 

[Bletchleyite]

Notably the tourist Oyster card, I forget what it's called, has a card fee of £3 rather than a deposit of £5.

Neil

 

[Mojo]

nice little earner from tourists

At least Tourists get something (as well as any unused credit) back, and have the option in paying in Cash for single rail or multimodal day tickets should they wish. Been to a couple of cities in the last few years where the Smartcard has a compulsory fee (non-refundable) / expires after a few years / does not allow refunds of unused credit / is mandatory for all journeys.

 

[John @ home]

TfL's Briefing Note to the Mayor proposed that "where cards are returned within one year of being issued an administration fee of £3 is charged".

7.4 ... Since the Oyster system started in 2003 nearly 90 million Oyster cards have been issued and over 25,000 are issued each day. Many of these cards are returned within days of being issued rather than retained and used over time. It is proposed that where cards are returned within one year of being issued an administration fee of £3 is charged.

http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Annex 2 Fares proposal for 2015_0.pdf

The Mayor's Decision reduced the holding period from one year to one month.

 

[Searle]

nice little earner from tourists

At least Tourists get something (as well as any unused credit) back, and have the option in paying in Cash for single rail or multimodal day tickets should they wish. Been to a couple of cities in the last few years where the Smartcard has a compulsory fee (non-refundable) / expires after a few years / does not allow refunds of unused credit / is mandatory for all journeys.

Hadn't thought about it that way, but I still have a couple of Rotterdam and a Belgrade card hanging around.

Thinking about it though, £5 is a lot more than any other European city I've visited. The Rotterdam one was €0.50, and the Belgrade one is negligible (everything is so cheap there anyway!)

 

[MikeWh]

The Mayor's Decision reduced the holding period from one year to one month.

I think a year is too long. Maybe a month is too short, but surely 3 months is enough. It's effectively bringing it into line with the tourist card which costs £3 and is non-refundable.

 

[bb21]

So basically this is a measure designed to rip off the tourists? Why do we as a country treat tourists as some sort of cash cow that should always be milked to the maximum?

Short-term tourists are now in a catch-22 situation. The paper Travelcards are shooting up in price, and yet if they go for the smartcard, they will still be chinged £3.

We will probably see more abandoned Oyster cards I reckon and that plays right into TfL's hands, since they get to keep hold of the deposit indefinitely in that case.

Crafty buggers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So basically this is a measure designed to rip off the tourists? Why do we as a country treat tourists as some sort of cash cow that should always be milked to the maximum?

Personally I'd rather see us following the Swiss line and introducing a tourist tax, for which cost an Oyster card containing a period Travelcard is supplied for free for the duration of stay. Stay in a hotel in Switzerland and you get the equivalent.

Neil

 

[afyutr]

Just passed through Singapore, where the tourist travel card costs £5 deposit, can only be bought from 10 stations during certain hours (so you have to buy a single there in the first place), and has to be returned to a station from those 10 within 5 days or the £5 is lost.

 

[DelayRepay]

1 million new Oyster cards a month seems an awful lot... It would be interesting to know how many people actually bother to reclaim their deposit each month? I suspect relatively few people bother cashing the card in before they leave London.

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure some people keep them as souvenirs, or perhaps even to use them again on their next visit.

 

[Goatboy]

This would have annoyed me were it not for the fact I'll now not bother with Oyster and use Contactless instead.

I usually pick an Oyster up and get it refunded when I leave as I only visit London a few times a year.

Contactless is as cheap as Oyster though, right?

 

[Feathers44]

This would have annoyed me were it not for the fact I'll now not bother with Oyster and use Contactless instead.

I usually pick an Oyster up and get it refunded when I leave as I only visit London a few times a year.

Contactless is as cheap as Oyster though, right?

As I understand it, yes. (I would have said it's cheaper if you hit the Monday-Sunday cap but I'm not clear where these changes leave that difference.)

 

[Hadders]

Contactless is as cheap as Oyster though, right

For an adult it's the same price and contactless will cap weekly on a Monday-Sunday basis

BUT

You can't load railcards onto contactless.

 

[simple simon]

visitors with national rail Brit Rail tickets may wish to forsake Underground travel (or only use the Bakerloo north of Queens Park, reaching there by travelling on the Overground from Euston) and to get around London buy the new £5 bus and tram passes. Much cheaper than a ODTC at £12!

Simon

 

[Bletchleyite]

visitors with national rail Brit Rail tickets may wish to forsake Underground travel (or only use the Bakerloo north of Queens Park, reaching there by travelling on the Overground from Euston) and to get around London buy the new £5 bus and tram passes. Much cheaper than a ODTC at £12!

Or use contactless/Oyster and only use buses/trams, which will give you an even cheaper cap.

Neil

 

[Tetchytyke]

Funny how I was accused of being too cynical when I said last week that TfL want to force everyone on to the cheaper (for them) Contactless

Foreign-issue contactless does work on TfL services- t'missus had an Irish contactless which worked on the buses- but then the tourists get chinged by their bank for a foreign currency transaction fee.

 

[jon0844]

I can't see how anyone is being forced to use contact less cards. For a start, not everyone will have one.

If that were the case, Oyster would be axed and we'd ditch plans to roll out smartcards on the national railway network - and that isn't happening.

Oyster will in fact be updated and modernised, and that means spending money which wouldn't be the case if you had some secret masterplan to do away with them completely.

 

[Lad Brookes]

Personally I'd rather see us following the Swiss line and introducing a tourist tax, for which cost an Oyster card containing a period Travelcard is supplied for free for the duration of stay. Stay in a hotel in Switzerland and you get the equivalent.

Neil

The Travelcard is not really free then, is it? It's more a scheme to make all people staying in a hotel pay for local public transport, whether they use it or not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Travelcard is not really free then, is it? It's more a scheme to make all people staying in a hotel pay for local public transport, whether they use it or not.

Or encouraging its use as you have paid for it anyway.

Neil

 

[Greenback]

So basically this is a measure designed to rip off the tourists? Why do we as a country treat tourists as some sort of cash cow that should always be milked to the maximum?

Short-term tourists are now in a catch-22 situation. The paper Travelcards are shooting up in price, and yet if they go for the smartcard, they will still be chinged £3.

We will probably see more abandoned Oyster cards I reckon and that plays right into TfL's hands, since they get to keep hold of the deposit indefinitely in that case.

Crafty buggers.

I agree. If the paper Travelcards were not going up by such an extent it wouldn't be so bad.

The only think I can think of is that those who make these decisions believe that £3 is a very small amount on the cost of a trip to the UK, so it won't discourage use.

Personally I'd rather see us following the Swiss line and introducing a tourist tax, for which cost an Oyster card containing a period Travelcard is supplied for free for the duration of stay. Stay in a hotel in Switzerland and you get the equivalent.

Neil

I think that would be a good idea, I certainly appreciate thefree local travel in Switzerland, it takes a lot of hassle away.

I'm sure some people keep them as souvenirs, or perhaps even to use them again on their next visit.

I'm sure that are people who can't be bothered to get their refund now, and no doubt that has been taken into consideration by the decision makers.

It's pretty easy for UK and European residents to keep hold of the cards as we do, and use them on their next visit, but those from further afield may never return to London. If they do it may not be for some years, by which time they could have lost their Oysters!

But that is their own fault, I suppose!

Or encouraging its use as you have paid for it anyway.

Neil

That's the way I'd rather look at it!

 

[simple simon]

Or use contactless/Oyster and only use buses/trams, which will give you an even cheaper cap.

Neil

Only if you have such cards. Anyway, for overseas visitors the extra charges imposed by their banks (if they use contactless) will likely make the Bus + Tram pass better value for money. Plus you get a souvenir!

I plan to use one of these when visiting Croydon in the new year. Even with the £1.50 each way train fare to West Croydon (I live near Gants Hill which is Z4 and will travel via the ELL) my £8.00 total spend will be cheaper for me than the £9.20 cap! Of course had there still been a 1-4 off-peak cap / paper ODTC (or a similarly priced 2-6 cap / paper ODTC) then I would have been using that instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only if you have such cards. Anyway, for overseas visitors the extra charges imposed by their banks (if they use contactless) will likely make the Bus + Tram pass better value for money.

I would expect not, because withdrawing cash is far more expensive generally than paying by credit[1] card when abroad. When abroad I pay by credit card for as much stuff as I possibly can for precisely that reason.

[1] Probably also Visa Debit - it was Maestro that used to impose flat fees on purchases rather than just on cash that would bump a Tube fare up somewhat.

Neil

 

[jon0844]

Do the visitor Oyster cards have any special designs on them to make them more collectable?

I got an Oyster to replace my Barclaycard one and it had the 150 year anniversary of the buses on it, which might potentially be worth more than the deposit one day in the future.

And if they did put on any sort of design, it would be even more likely kept as a sounvenir. I've kept smartcards from various travels and don't care if I've still got a bit of cash on them - it's a great way to remember a trip and possibly still cheaper than a fridge magnet or similar!

 

[bb21]

I think it would actually be a great idea to have changing designs so that there is more chance of people retaining them as souvenirs.

I wonder if they bring out a new design every three months, how many on this forum will moan that it is costing a lot of money to collect them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I can't see how anyone is being forced to use contact less cards. For a start, not everyone will have one.

I see similarities between the start of Oyster and the start of Contactless. It is all about persuasion, making one method of payment far more attractive than the other.

Cash has now gone altogether from buses and paper tickets have pretty much left the Tube with these latest changes. It's taken a good few years, but I think it was always the intention.

I see the same thing happening with Oyster now. At some point they will need to replace or upgrade the Oyster system, particularly the management of the cards. That will cost £££. Much better to switch to Contactless and pass the costs on to the banks, Visa and Mastercard.

 

[jon0844]

Getting rid of paper tickets was always a plan and a good one at that, but nobody can rely on everyone having a debit or credit card to travel once you've started to eradicate cash payments. So Oyster or some variant is going nowhere.

 

[MikeWh]

Oyster is going nowhere, and I have that from the mouth of a senior director of TfL. Oyster will change from it's current card centric model to the same back office model that contactless uses at some point in the future. When that happens there will be lots of possibilities for enhancement.