Overcrowding during Easter

[43066]

As a proportion of the whole country that's absolutely accurate.

Well, no. It isn’t accurate (the comment you quoted was being made sarcastically). You say the same anti-railway things in every post, and have previously stated that you hardly use the railway yourself. So what is the relevance of your viewpoint to a thread discussing overcrowding amongst those who do use it?

And, to be fair, has been for a very long time!

IIRC over half of the population uses the railway at least once per year. A smaller % use it regularly, but that isn’t “nobody”, and it’s an economically significant %!

 

[12LDA28C]

And how do they do that?
Work teams have always been told the proper way to do things but then ignore it; I cite Margam as a perfect example of that, and there are plenty of other examples in the RAIB library.

If people ignore procedures then they do so at their own risk. What we have now as a result of banning lookout protection seems to be either a reduction in track inspections / repairs, or an increase in line blockages to do those tasks, or both. Hardly ideal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2023 ==

Which then brings us to the next problem. Instead of "it's unacceptable there are no trains on Boxing Day" type threads, instead we'd be getting "it's unacceptable fares are so high on Boxing Day".

I don't see why other farepayers, nor taxpayers for that matter, should be subsidising such inflated costs to move a (comparatively) small number of people.

Some of the trains were full and standing. As most people (clearly not you) don't want to work Christmas Day or Boxing Day, then sufficient enhancement needs to be offered to guarantee enough volunteers. Quite straightforward. Not sure why you think fares were any more expensive on Boxing Day just because staff were getting paid more?

 

[deltic]

Which then brings us to the next problem. Instead of "it's unacceptable there are no trains on Boxing Day" type threads, instead we'd be getting "it's unacceptable fares are so high on Boxing Day".

I don't see why other farepayers, nor taxpayers for that matter, should be subsidising such inflated costs to move a (comparatively) small number of people.

London Underground use on Boxing Day is over 2/3rds of the level of an average Sunday in January while London bus use on Boxing Day is around 90% of the average Sunday level - so demand is clearly there if the service was provided. In fact more people travelled by bus on Boxing Day than New Year's Day and virtually the same number of people traveled by Underground on the two days.

 

[Horizon22]

Some of the trains were full and standing. As most people (clearly not you) don't want to work Christmas Day or Boxing Day, then sufficient enhancement needs to be offered to guarantee enough volunteers. Quite straightforward. Not sure why you think fares were any more expensive on Boxing Day just because staff were getting paid more?

Try explaining “quite straightforward” to the DfT. Someone needs to sanction the extra money spent and no doubt a cost-benefit analysis will be carried out as to whether it’s actually worthwhile to pay 2-3x more and whether the income will be suitable.

If it’s no worse than a usual Sunday, then would make sense to perhaps you and I but I doubt the reluctant DfT takes the same stance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Try explaining “quite straightforward” to the DfT. Someone needs to sanction the extra money spent and no doubt a cost-benefit analysis will be carried out as to whether it’s actually worthwhile to pay 2-3x more and whether the income will be suitable.

If it’s no worse than a usual Sunday, then would make sense to perhaps you and I but I doubt the reluctant DfT takes the same stance.

It's basically essential that if you want people to give up their cars that basically all public transport operates for a minimum 6am-11pm ish day, every day of the year, regardless of whether it might lose a bit of money doing so.

However, the Government is in no way serious about this.

 

[bramling]

Some of the trains were full and standing. As most people (clearly not you) don't want to work Christmas Day or Boxing Day, then sufficient enhancement needs to be offered to guarantee enough volunteers. Quite straightforward. Not sure why you think fares were any more expensive on Boxing Day just because staff were getting paid more?

My point was that *if* a Boxing Day service is going to run based on staff having to be enticed with a very substantial premium (as some here have advocated) then it’s only reasonably that the extra cost should be entirely borne by those using the service on that day.

Hence fares would need to reflect that, which in practical terms would mean as a minimum no cheap advance tickets, no railcard discounts, no off-peak fares, et cetera. I can’t see that being particularly well received.

Personally I’m actually not *that* fussed about working Boxing Day from a practical point of view. I don’t like Christmas, and much prefer to have time off in the spring summer or early autumn when the weather is better. However from a principle point of view I get utterly sick of the bunfight of entitlement that goes on over Christmas, such that I more tend to the view that I don’t see why I should work Boxing Day essentially to serve others who never would themselves.

 

[Horizon22]

However, the Government is in no way serious about this.

Which is what most of the problems that are oft-posted here boil down to. I imagine senior management at many TOCs are tearing their hair out at the lack of flexibility available to them.

 

[bramling]

It's basically essential that if you want people to give up their cars that basically all public transport operates for a minimum 6am-11pm ish day, every day of the year, regardless of whether it might lose a bit of money doing so.

However, the Government is in no way serious about this.

Exactly. There is no desire at all to actually encourage people to give up their cars or even reduce the amount of journeys they make. It’s lip service only.

 

[Horizon22]

My point was that *if* a Boxing Day service is going to run based on staff having to be enticed with a very substantial premium (as some here have advocated) then it’s only reasonably that the extra cost should be entirely borne by those using the service on that day.

Hence fares would need to reflect that, which in practical terms would mean as a minimum no cheap advance tickets, no railcard discounts, no off-peak fares, et cetera. I can’t see that being particularly well received.

Why? That’s completely out of kilter with any other way that we do pricing (outside of advance purchases). You’d look at the cost over a wider horizon (monthly or quarterly probably).

 

[bramling]

Why? That’s completely out of kilter with any other way that we do pricing (outside of advance purchases). You’d look at the cost over a wider horizon (monthly or quarterly probably).

I know that’s probably what *would* happen, however I find it objectionable that farepayers on other days should be subsidising something that’s so disproportionately expensive to provide.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm not sure how we managed to get from Easter to Boxing Day given they are months apart but as Easter is now over for another year I think we will draw this discussion to a close.