Overcrowding during Easter

[Snow1964]

Yes but on another side off peak leisure tickets are comparatively cheap, compare to the expensive Anytime of course.
If the railway want to focus on ob leisure travel, would they need to push up the price to cover the cost?

Yes and no, there are already vast numbers of services that provide no premium service (standard class only in 2+2 or 2+3 seats)

Ultimately revenue is price x volume, so lower prices are ok if quantity of passengers can be carried. But need to balance the overall yield as no good offering a cheap ticket if can fill train with higher priced tickets.

As happened Good Friday, weather was good, most people will do a day out starting around 9-11am. And if they already hold a railcard, might make last minute decision to do day out which means tend to get a leisure rush late morning

Then also have limiting factors (rolling stock availability, platform lengths etc).

 

[Route115?]

Going around London yesterday (Easter Sat) the problem was the sheer number of closures, compounding each other. Victoria Central was closed and SE were operating everything into Cannon St. Also the Elizabeth Line was closed between Paddington & Abbey Wood. Its not surprising that there was a lot of demand at London Bridge for the Jubilee Line - which was running a reduced service as it was closed north of West Hampstead and having trouble coping. I wonder how much co-ordination there was?

The problem, of course, is that Easter is an obvious time for a four day closure. It is interesting that Scotrail is proposing more closres for engineering on Sundays & Mondays rather than Sat - Sun as Saturday is now the busiest day of the week. Possibly some (not all) of the Easter closures could have taken place over a normal weekend given that Fridays & Mondays are quiter days (although Friday afternoons are now rather busy for leisure traffic). You are never going to win whatever you do though.

 

[northwichcat]

From my own personal experience, having spent months stuck in the house working, I certainly have much less tolerance for hanging around at home.

I'm the same. When I was commuting to an office every day, I happily used annual leave to just stay at home. Now, I don't want to book annual leave if I'm going to end up staying at home all day.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The split into different TOCs hasn't helped. Back in the day, the NSE mark 1s that did rush hour runs on weekdays could run to Aberystwyth or Pwllheli at the weekend. I think the class 310s used to run to various strange places as well. There will be other examples.

How late on did Regional Railways ‘Central’ continue to borrow NSE sets for the Cambrian?

 

[yorksrob]

I'm the same. When I was commuting to an office every day, I happily used annual leave to just stay at home. Now, I don't want to book annual leave if I'm going to end up staying at home all day.

Indeed. I hate wasting leave !

 

[bahnause]

Professional means running the railway as effectively as possible, and having large amounts of stock laid up for 1 or 2 times a year peaks is not an effective method of running things. It's not like the old Mk1s that could sit in a siding for 6 months and then be brought out with barely an oiling to be put into service. Modern trains need to be running regularly to keep them running smoothly, so having spare sets would lead to complex allocation of units to make sure they stay in traffic.

We mange peaks like easter traffic without having excessive stock standing around. We have to move units around a lot, but we don't keep it just one orre two times a year.

 

[Ken H]

Indeed. I hate wasting leave !

I have just had the last week off. I stayed home and chilled. Knackered after a high stress project at work and wife recovering from operation. Not having to be awake for an 0830 meeting was worth a lot.
We are all different...

 

[JonathanH]

How late on did Regional Railways ‘Central’ continue to borrow NSE sets for the Cambrian?

It can't have been beyond the end of the 1980s as the stock had been moved from the South WCML to the Oxford services by 1990.

 

[ChrisHogan]

How late on did Regional Railways ‘Central’ continue to borrow NSE sets for the Cambrian?

Not after it was formed on 6/4/92. Must have been in Provincial Midland days before I joined it. RRC's LHCS was based at Tyseley.

 

[Falcon1200]

How does Good Friday compare with a typical Friday or a normal Saturday though?

I travelled on the same 0715 Glasgow Queen Street-Edinburgh train on a Monday a month ago and again last Friday, ie Good Friday. The Friday service was less busy, by a long way.

Well....the irony being that at those times there often is no railway at all due to engineering works.

Albeit a lot of staff are still at work on the railway, not just in the obvious places, eg at the engineering work, but elsewhere, eg Control.

Though anecdotally I have heard that Carstairs hasn't fared brilliantly for freight.

Out of interest, what was the freight plan, everything via Edinburgh? What did they do about the container trains?

ECML, fair few rejected apparently. We aren't at the point where flexing passenger trains greatly to allow freight paths is treated as it could be.

A lot of freight, including container trains, ran via the Glasgow & South Western route; Just as when Lamington Viaduct was closed in 2016. NR Scotland and the freight operators therefore had prior experience, albeit not on a planned basis with Lamington!

 

[centraluser]

Currently there is a fault with the signalling system at Leamington Spa, cancelling or delaying services. I imagine Birmingham Moor Street and Marylebone will be a tad busy. ☹️

 

[The Planner]

I travelled on the same 0715 Glasgow Queen Street-Edinburgh train on a Monday a month ago and again last Friday, ie Good Friday. The Friday service was less busy, by a long way.



Albeit a lot of staff are still at work on the railway, not just in the obvious places, eg at the engineering work, but elsewhere, eg Control.







A lot of freight, including container trains, ran via the Glasgow & South Western route; Just as when Lamington Viaduct was closed in 2016. NR Scotland and the freight operators therefore had prior experience, albeit not on a planned basis with Lamington!

Is the GS and W W10 cleared?

 

[bramling]

Leisure is probably one of the few things keeping the economy going at the moment.

I suspect 2023 is going to play out different in this respect.

Purely anecdotal, however I’ve had some time off this last week. Not a week I would have chosen, just how the cookie has crumbled.

Last weekend we visited a preserved railway. It was very empty indeed. We visited a stately home on Good Friday, it was busy, but not as busy as I’d have expected especially given the weather was fine. We stayed in a hotel on Friday night, no trouble getting something booked at just a few hours’ notice. The hotel was virtually empty. Preserved railway yesterday, again pretty empty. Restaurant meals on both Friday and Saturday evenings, again no problem just walking in.

By contrast, I will be off to run a half marathon this afternoon, and expect the path to be busy, hence why I’m leaving it as late in the day as possible.

The trend I’ve noticed is that stuff with is free or very cheap seems to attract numbers. Anything paid-for far less so.

On the plus side, pleasing to note an increasing number of preserved railways are ditching the whole pre-book nonsense. We had two very enjoyable days this last week, everything back to 2019 arrangements exactly how it should be. I continue to boycott anywhere leaning towards the pre-book single-journey experience model.

From my own personal experience, having spent months stuck in the house working, I certainly have much less tolerance for hanging around at home.

One wonders how many overgrown back gardens will result from this if it’s a trend!

In any case, this thread will become academic after today as the weather is going to be very much taking a turn for the worse for the next 5-6 days.

 

[zwk500]

Is the GS and W W10 cleared?

Not according to Sectional Appendix

(Image shows a table from the Sectional Appendix with the GSW clear for W8 maximum Gretna Jn to Kilmarnock then W7 Kilmarnock to Glasgow).

 

[Merle Haggard]

How late on did Regional Railways ‘Central’ continue to borrow NSE sets for the Cambrian?

I suggest that would be limited by their availability from NSE; the Cobbler sets finished in May-June* 1989 (replaced by 12 car 321s) and the Thames Valley sets a little later (by Thames Turbos). The Cambrians would possibly be the 'Cobbler' sets, not sure.
* from memory, probably not exact

 

[gazzaa2]

I avoid the railway easter weekend barring very localised services. It's a busy weekend with big capacity demand yet half the railway is shut for engineering. Plus cancelled services as they can't get the staff on a sunny bank holiday.

 

[The Planner]

Not according to Sectional Appendix
View attachment 132653
(Image shows a table from the Sectional Appendix with the GSW clear for W8 maximum Gretna Jn to Kilmarnock then W7 Kilmarnock to Glasgow).

Then Intermodal isnt going that way and is ECML, correlating that its not worked brilliantly for freight.

 

[mikeg]

On a northern service from Hull to York, having boarded at Selby. It's more or less deserted. I suspect it's people all expecting to travel at once and then moaning it's busy rather than applying a bit of seemingly uncommon sense and travelling at slightly quieter times if they can.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect 2023 is going to play out different in this respect.

Purely anecdotal, however I’ve had some time off this last week. Not a week I would have chosen, just how the cookie has crumbled.

Last weekend we visited a preserved railway. It was very empty indeed. We visited a stately home on Good Friday, it was busy, but not as busy as I’d have expected especially given the weather was fine. We stayed in a hotel on Friday night, no trouble getting something booked at just a few hours’ notice. The hotel was virtually empty. Preserved railway yesterday, again pretty empty. Restaurant meals on both Friday and Saturday evenings, again no problem just walking in.

By contrast, I will be off to run a half marathon this afternoon, and expect the path to be busy, hence why I’m leaving it as late in the day as possible.

The trend I’ve noticed is that stuff with is free or very cheap seems to attract numbers. Anything paid-for far less so.

On the plus side, pleasing to note an increasing number of preserved railways are ditching the whole pre-book nonsense. We had two very enjoyable days this last week, everything back to 2019 arrangements exactly how it should be. I continue to boycott anywhere leaning towards the pre-book single-journey experience model.



One wonders how many overgrown back gardens will result from this if it’s a trend!

With the price of everything going up it's bound to have an effect unfortunately.

I've been fortunate enough not to notice the inflation - until recently that is. Things are really beginning to ramp up now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Apr 2023 ==

I have just had the last week off. I stayed home and chilled. Knackered after a high stress project at work and wife recovering from operation. Not having to be awake for an 0830 meeting was worth a lot.
We are all different...

Indeed. I like to be somewhere in the country generally for my days off !

 

[Falcon1200]

Is the GS and W W10 cleared?

As @zwk500 has helpfully shown, it is not, however the route is cleared up to W8, but only up to W7 for the direct route from Kilmarnock towards Glasgow via Barrhead. Which is why, when when I was involved in the Lamington incident, container trains ran via Kilmarnock to Barassie for a run round (the route between Mauchline and Newton Junction via Annbank also not being cleared).

Then Intermodal isnt going that way and is ECML, correlating that its not worked brilliantly for freight.

Are the Mossend/Daventry trains running via the GSW not intermodals? They I note are booked via Annbank, so either presumably they do fit or clearance has been improved or authorised for that way.

 

[yorksrob]

On a northern service from Hull to York, having boarded at Selby. It's more or less deserted. I suspect it's people all expecting to travel at once and then moaning it's busy rather than applying a bit of seemingly uncommon sense and travelling at slightly quieter times if they can.

Indeed. Been very quiet on the rails today.

 

[Bikeman78]

'keeping ratty old coaches etc' was something Dr Beeching targeted years ago! The railway does keep stock for peak demand, witness for example the EMUs stabled at various points around London between the morning and evening peaks; Keeping stock for exceptional demand is another thing.

As I've mentioned on similar threads before, the UK system is much more fragmented than some of our neighbours. If you take the Dutch or Belgian railways, all units and locos can go anywhere. Virtually all crews sign everything. I've been on 12 car lash ups of 1960s EMUs in Belgium from Blankenberge to various places.

 

[gazzaa2]

Time them for relatively quiet weekends? October, early November, January, February and March (assuming Easter is not in March) and, if absolutely necessary, non-bank-holiday weekends in April, May and September.

I'd be interested to see stats to see if the incidence of engineering work on busy weekends (i.e. bank holiday weekends and all weekends June-Aug) has increased since the 90s. I swear it has, though have no hard evidence to back this up. It also seems to be the case that weekday engineering work (obviously more disruptive than the weekend) has increased in incidence.

Last year there was engineering works all weekend on the WCML in April for easter weekend when there was the FA Cup semi final at Wembley. Of course two north west clubs played each other and all had to go by road (or a very diverted rail route).

 

[Llanigraham]

How late on did Regional Railways ‘Central’ continue to borrow NSE sets for the Cambrian?

Not in the 20 years I've lived here!


Yesterday I had a trip in my classic car along some of the Cardigan Bay coast. I had lunch at Abergynolwyn Station which was fairly busy and the 2 trains that came in whilst I was there were reasonably busy, but nowhere near full
The Fairbourne had a few parking spaces in the 2 public car parks, but the one that only accepts phone payment was almost empty. I drove down to the Ferry station and the 2 trains I passed were not very full.
As a drove into Fairbourne there were a few people waiting on the "big" train's platform and from what I saw of the train later it wasn't very full.
Had a drink at The George III at Penmaenpool and that was heaving!
Stopped at the Corris Railway on the way back and that was reasonably busy and they said they had had a good day.

I think what we can accertain is that in SOME areas things were busy during SOME of the day, but as is usual the press have picked up on the most sensational points and ignored everywhere else, as unfortunately have some members of here. And as an ex-railway man I accepted that on some bank holidays I would have to work, even if there were no public trains running because work was being undertaken. Atleast I got paid well for doing so.

 

[gazzaa2]

These services are the absolute bare essentials. No one has yet produced an argument for why transport should be considered the same, except for “I want to use it for my leisure requirements”.

There’s been a strange obsession with leisure ever since Covid. The country is doing really well as a result…

A lot of people are working from home now (hybrid or full time) during the week and thus want to get out the house at the weekend. Working 9-5 in the office 5 days a week with a long commute they'd be more inclined to relax at home at the weekend and not want to sit on more busy trains or in a motorway queue.

 

[The Planner]

As @zwk500 has helpfully shown, it is not, however the route is cleared up to W8, but only up to W7 for the direct route from Kilmarnock towards Glasgow via Barrhead. Which is why, when when I was involved in the Lamington incident, container trains ran via Kilmarnock to Barassie for a run round (the route between Mauchline and Newton Junction via Annbank also not being cleared).



Are the Mossend/Daventry trains running via the GSW not intermodals? They I note are booked via Annbank, so either presumably they do fit or clearance has been improved or authorised for that way.

Are all the Intermodals going that way?

 

[dk1]

All the more reason why Xmas day and Boxing Day off is precious to many.

Very true. I never have & never will drive trains on Christmas or Boxing Day. It’s a bit early in the year for the annual Yuletide farce to start on this forum isn’t it?

 

[Bald Rick]

English services should not be under the control of Welsh politicans.

And they are not. DfT has the power to require TfW in respect of services within England.

 

[bramling]

A lot of people are working from home now (hybrid or full time) during the week and thus want to get out the house at the weekend. Working 9-5 in the office 5 days a week with a long commute they'd be more inclined to relax at home at the weekend and not want to sit on more busy trains or in a motorway queue.

So, let’s get this straight … they spend some or all of the week at home, yet expect the railway to have infinite capacity to be ready and waiting for their once-a-week leisure journey, that might only happen if the weather is good. This model simply doesn’t work unless they’re prepared to pay absolutely shed loads of tax and/or very high fares.

 

[Llanigraham]

Last year there was engineering works all weekend on the WCML in April for easter weekend when there was the FA Cup semi final at Wembley. Of course two north west clubs played each other and all had to go by road (or a very diverted rail route).

And didn't the ToC's and NR warn the FA that there were going to be closures, arranged and notified more than 12 months in advance, and yet the FA decided to ignore it?