Over running engineering works in trent valley

[al78]

I agree totally. My comment was aimed at itsonlyme who says that the railway always lets him down at this time of year, yet continues to attempt to travel by train rather than make alternative arrangements.

It is not always obvious that a train you wish to use is going to experience significant disruption at the time you buy the ticket, so if you buy a ticket and then disruption happens that is bad luck, nothing to do with poor planning, unless the disruption is known in advance such as engineering works. If you are saying that he should always use an alternative mode of transport just in case, then that is at best over-simplistic and at worst a silly suggestion, it's like saying that the railways are borderline impractical as a mode of transport (Southern Rail is not far from that), in which case we might as well rip most of them up and replace with roads :roll:. That might stop them being a cash drain on the government.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can remember Rugby being leading story on BBC News on the day it happened and remaining in bulletins for a few days thereafter. Not the best advertisement for Network Rail was that one.

Plus Bethnal Green at the same time.

 

[tsr]

To be fair, it seems NR have done a decent enough job this Christmas with the major works on the Southern. A rare bunch of good news - Bermondsey Diveunder [Down Sussex Slow] opened, all routes over Old Lodge Lane available, and more. The more minor stuff is also being considerably helped by extra possessions due to the distinct lack of trains on some other days, due to you-know-what...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

To be fair, it seems NR have done a decent enough job this Christmas with the major works on the Southern. A rare bit of good news - Bermondsey Diveunder [Down Sussex Slow] opened, all routes over Old Lodge Lane available, and more. The more minor stuff is also being considerably helped by extra possessions due to the distinct lack of trains on some other days, due to you-know-what...

Fingers crossed for Cardiff and Paddington.

 

[tsr]

Fingers crossed for Cardiff and Paddington.

Surely GWR and ATW could have a turn at going on strike for a bit...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Fingers crossed for Cardiff and Paddington.

And Manchester.
Ordsall Lane reopens on Jan 3 after 16 days blocked for remodelling/resignalling/bridge/viaduct works.
Luckily the weather doesn't look like being too severe.

 

[dviner]

To be fair, it seems NR have done a decent enough job this Christmas with the major works on the Southern. A rare bunch of good news - Bermondsey Diveunder [Down Sussex Slow] opened, all routes over Old Lodge Lane available, and more. The more minor stuff is also being considerably helped by extra possessions due to the distinct lack of trains on some other days, due to you-know-what...

If I remember correctly, all the major works last Christmas/New Year were handed back on time. That's not news, though.

 

[najaB]

It is not always obvious that a train you wish to use is going to experience significant disruption at the time you buy the ticket...

I agree. However, if there is a specific journey that (to quote) "every time the railway mucks it up", perhaps it's time to consider making the journey using another mode of transport or at another time.

An oft-quoted (though probably apocryphal) Einstein quote comes to mind: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

[trubla]

Do we know for certain it is the Hartshill bridge that is the issue?

Article from local paper Tamworth Herald


STRONG winds have forced essential repair work to a lorry-battered bridge to be delayed – causing traffic chaos in North Warwickshire.

Trains were cancelled and a major road, between Atherstone and Nuneaton, remained closed today (December 28) after bad weather stopped workers finishing their much-needed maintenance.

Engineers were working to completely replace a bridge in Woodford Lane, Mancetter, which was damaged after being struck by several lorries in recent weeks.

A spokesperson for Network Rail said: "High winds have delayed works to replace a bridge near Nuneaton.

"As a result there have been delays on the West Coast Main Line this morning (December 27)."

 

[trubla]

Have network rail resintated the 2 slow lines first?

Might it not have been better to have reinstated one slow and one fast given the bidirectional facility on the fast lines?

By opening slow lines first enables trains to stop at Atherstone, so saves organising more replacement transport

 

[Hadders]

It's not good when there are delays on the railway and the OP has my sympathy.

But, all forms of transport suffer from delays from time to time. I was delayed on the M1 near Milton Keynes this evening and yesterday afternoon but that doesn't appear on the news.

At least when you're delayed by rail you can claim delay repay. Road delays actually cost you money in additional fuel.

 

[The Planner]

Would be surprised if it was not in a single piece when replaced and would be a case of all lines or nothing.

 

[QueensCurve]

By opening slow lines first enables trains to stop at Atherstone, so saves organising more replacement transport

Sounds like a good reason.

I was thinking though that if one fast and one slow had been reinstated they could have worked on the others during the day,

 

[bnsf734]

Would be surprised if it was not in a single piece when replaced and would be a case of all lines or nothing.

Only the fast lines are reversibly signalled. The slow lines are conventionally signalled, however as it was obviously still a worksite it probably would not have been feasible to run trains. Trains were diverted on Tuesday so they already had a timetable in place and I dare say a contingency plan to cope with an overrun.

I went to the site on Christmas morning for a look through the fence and there were 2 old steel bridges removed using a SPMT (self propelled mobile transporter) and replaced by SPMT. There was a large crane working on site as well. There have been a few pictures and videos posted on the Nuneaton Memories facebook site.

I will be travelling that way tomorrow, over the new bridge - glad we didn't go today!

To give the workers their due, this was a major job, as the bridge abutments also had to be altered and to do a job like this in 3 days is an achievment. Look how long it takes to do any road bridges - you are talking weeks or months, not days.

Hopefully the new bridge has a greater clearance underneath to avoid it getting hit again. It certainly looked a slimline version when I saw it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

By opening slow lines first enables trains to stop at Atherstone, so saves organising more replacement transport

The slow lines are on the outside on that section, fast lines in the middle.
Fast lines are bi-di.

Cardiff "has overran"(!) this morning. http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

The major engineering work taking place at Cardiff Central has overran.
Although some lines are expected to reopen shortly, trains through Cardiff Central including mainline and Valley Line services are expected to remain disrupted.
When the lines reopen, we anticipate disruption will continue until at least 10:00 whilst services return to normal

Edit:
Trains seem to have started moving through Cardiff around 0800, but there are still long delays, particularly eastbound from Newport.
The advice has changed from "all lines reopened, expect delays" to "only a limited number of trains can run".

 

[itsonlyme]

Just a quick response. First as a pensioner who now longer drives, and lives in a town, Crewe, with no north bound coach services it's either use the train or don't travel. The only realistic alternative rail route is via Manchester where you are also dammed with engineering work.

Every Sunday I see the words "overrunning engineering work" appearing as an excuse for delays in various places. Whilst this specfic problem may have been caused by weather issues it appears to me as a passenger that there are serious issues in the planning of engineering work when it regularly overruns.

The railway seem to think that they can't risk their rip off peak time fare receipts by doing some major work on weekdays as this will upset commuters and business travellers, so try to squash it into wekends and holiday times. This puts most of the inconvenience on travellers at these times, which to me is unfair. Net result is it's the poor old leisure traveller who suffers from delays far more than the proportion of this category of travellers fares to the total fare receipts would fairly justify.

Malcolm

 

[najaB]

The railway seem to think that they can't risk their rip off peak time fare receipts by doing some major work on weekdays as this will upset commuters and business travellers, so try to squash it into wekends and holiday times. This puts most of the inconvenience on travellers at these times, which to me is unfair. Net result is it's the poor old leisure traveller who suffers from delays far more than the proportion of this category of travellers fares to the total fare receipts would fairly justify.

I feel for you, but it's an inescapable fact that more people travel during the week than at weekends. So by doing work at the weekend the fewest number of people are affected and it's easier to source rail-replacement busses.

As to the overrunning of work it's a fine balancing act: they can plan for what they should be able to do during a block (and possibly get caught out when something goes wrong) or be conservative and plan less work per-possession - in which case the renewal project ends up taking much longer and being a lot more expensive overall.

Something I didn't realise until frequenting these forums is just how much work is involved in setting up and shutting down a work site in a possession. Depending on the site it could be as much as a couple of hours all things considered - so planning an hour's less work could mean a five or six hour shutdown later.

 

[rebmcr]

There's only so much planning that can be done when two lorries bang into a bridge...

 

[Bertie the bus]

The railway seem to think that they can't risk their rip off peak time fare receipts by doing some major work on weekdays as this will upset commuters and business travellers, so try to squash it into wekends and holiday times. This puts most of the inconvenience on travellers at these times, which to me is unfair. Net result is it's the poor old leisure traveller who suffers from delays far more than the proportion of this category of travellers fares to the total fare receipts would fairly justify.

With respect the only reason you think it is unfair is because you are a pensioner and all your travel is leisure. Closing lines at quieter times is obviously the correct thing to do. On lines like the WCML freight also needs to be considered.

 

[Class 170101]

If NR closed any main line during (normal) weekday peak periods for engineering works the network would grind to a halt very quickly. The operators would be unable to get enough rail replacement buses nor would you be able to discourage enough people to 'disappear' for the duration.

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

There's only so much planning that can be done when two lorries bang into a bridge...

To be fair, there has been a lot of preparatory work, on the site, for a number of weeks. The possession will have been solely for the replacement of the 2 bridge spans. I hope the new bridge has a little more clearance as the old one was just 4.4 metres.

 

[The Planner]

Doubt it has as you will be raising the track either side for a considerable distance to get the vertical curvature. Unless the deck is thinner so the soffit is higher and you gain that way.

 

[rebmcr]

Unless the deck is thinner so the soffit is higher and you gain that way.

I think that was implied.

 

[The Planner]

Was it? Didn't read that way to me, could have been road lowering, raising the height of the bridge or the soffit as said.

 

[najaB]

Doubt it has as you will be raising the track either side for a considerable distance to get the vertical curvature. Unless the deck is thinner so the soffit is higher and you gain that way.

It looks like that is the case from comparing Google Street View to a grab from the Network Rail video linked to from the article posted earlier.

 

[AndyPJG]

Looks like the deck slab is on the bottom edge of the span beams, rather than the deck on top of the old wrought iron girders,so in effect raising the soffit level of the deck.

(bit like the 'high' and 'low' girders on the Tay Bridge, with the girders above/below the rail level)

 

[QueensCurve]

Looks like the deck slab is on the bottom edge of the span beams, rather than the deck on top of the old wrought iron girders,so in effect raising the soffit level of the deck.

(bit like the 'high' and 'low' girders on the Tay Bridge, with the girders above/below the rail level)

Are the Fast lines still closed today (29/12)?

 

[MKB]

... it's an inescapable fact that more people travel during the week than at weekends.

What's your source for this?

My experience of the WCML is that the busy periods are Friday and Sunday afternoons/evenings and Monday mornings. Tuesday-Thursday trains are often very lightly loaded. Saturdays get very busy on the routes with football traffic.

Would it not be much better to schedule all these huge engineering projects on the WCML for Tuesday-Thursday blocks in the summer holidays?

Advantages would be:

- The weather is less likely to delay things;
- Longer daylight hours to work in;
- Contractors don't have to be paid double/triple time;
- It's a working weekday, so bus alternatives are more likely to be running;
- Business traffic is lighter in the school holidays, and, given sufficient notice, most business traffic can be flexible and schedule meetings/visits around the stoppages;
- Fewer sporting fixtures are taking place that cause a lot of people to need to travel at weekends without a choice of being flexible on dates;
- All the different engineering projects are not concentrated at the same time, so diversionary rail routes are more likely to be available.

 

[The Planner]

WCML has longer two track blocks over weekends and the schedule 4 compensation would be much higher during the week. Watford was originally going to be a week until the compensation worked out at an eye watering amount.

 

[najaB]

What's your source for this?

Really?! You're seriously trying to pull a 'Citation needed' on weekdays being busier than weekends?