We must be looking at different reports then. Mine definitely has more to it than the SPAD, which was also part of the reason for the extended delay.
I suspect we are looking at the same reports and drawing different things from them. Certainly more to it than the SPAD, sure, but as far as I can see the signalling equipment itself worked fine, with the appropriate mitigations kicking in.
Undoubtedly true.
The issue is the pre-approved industry delay reasons.
"Pre-approved industry reasons" don't apply to all the information a TOC ever gives out. Usually they are in place to allow quicker selection of information for automated systems. There are certainly no scripted announcements onboard Southern services, for example (there have been guidance materials given to crew over the years, but nothing mandatory).
In my experience of working on platforms and dealing with disruption, the vast majority (if not all) people care more about when their train will turn up than the exact reason why it's delayed.
I've never had anyone press for more information when told that it's due to a train fault / operational incident / points failure. The fact that point 632B has no detection in reverse is absolutely no interest to the general public.
It would appear Southern passengers are rather different from everyone else's, then!
The biggest question I ever hear is "why?", albeit closely followed by "how much longer then?". Except on a few lines of route where they can have a pretty good stab at how long a delay will be as soon as you say "bus" or "terminate short"!
To my layperson ears, they are subtly different. Operational incident is hiding behind vagueness. Railway staff know it is really a euphemism for a SPAD or SPAR, but passengers probably won't. As I said, it's very close to the excuses London Midland use when they've screwed up.
It may be hiding behind vagueness, but as has already been posted, that vagueness can cover a multitude of sins. Often the sequence of events can be so complicated to explain that even a more diverse range of stock phrases on the automatic announcements wouldn't accurately cover anything anyway.
But I would suggest that it is different to passengers. For most passengers, even those interested in railway working (including me before I read this thread) "operational incident" conveys nothing - it might mean train fault, signalling fault, track fault, crew illness, crew absence, passenger taken ill, passengers being removed by BTP, suicide, or almost anything else.
To be fair, most of those other reasons are adequately covered by existing terminology.
And because it means nothing to passengers, it can sound like "we're not going to tell you what really happened", even when that isn't the case.
Arrrgh! "Operating Incident" is one of the most annoying things to see a delay attributed to. It's condescending and deliberately obscure. It means nothing. It means "we're not telling you". I understand that might not be what it means internally, but that's what it means to the passenger.
"This train is delayed due to an operating incident"
"This train is delayed because something happened"
You wouldn't accept the latter, why should we accept the former? The two are the same to me.
And no, of course us passengers don't need and shouldn't be expected to understand every minute detail of rail operations. We don't need to know if the driver f***ed up, or the signaller, or if something just broke. BUT a little single line of explanation as to why we're being delayed sure can help calm us - or tell us where to direct our frustrations.
Where to direct our frustations? I feel like I should explain that one. I've seen numerous times people ranting and raving at TOCs on Twitter about their delay only to be told that the problem is with the infrastructure, which is not our responsibility, it's NR's. The enlightened traveller will understand the difference. The "operating incident" hides even this level of attribution.
Agreed. Passengers are very quick to spot when they are
not being told something.
I was working trains yesterday where the trains around it were affected by the incident under discussion. I said to passengers that the issue was due to 'signalling issues between Chichester and Havant'. Since most people that were affected were only delayed by about 10 mins, no one said anything to me.
It sounds like you were in the ideal position in which to make brief announcements which only needed to quickly mention the issues, as they were of limited consequence.
It would have been much harder to keep information coming out of the PA of the train involved in the incident, or if you were stuck immediately behind (as I can attest from personal experience!).
There was also an issue on another train up in London that started as 'train fault', but then led to 'disruptive passengers' and then 'police called'. This was at Selhurst.
Do you know if the 'train fault' was a real (and seperate) issue? Or was it an early mis-reporting of the 'disruptive passengers'?
I don't know, but the train did end up terminating at Selhurst and headed straight into the depot.
Repetitive door fault on one train + another with disruptive passengers, so I am told!
And yet I still think that the average passenger neither wants to know what has happened, or really cares, they just want to get to/from home/work. Forum users and enthusiasts on the other hand......
Look, I'm really not so sure. I always hear the most praise for detail of commentary on what's going on, not estimating people's delays getting home. They just get depressed by the latter.
Can be annoying, plus seems to be loads of kids hanging about on bikes as well. We had to slow some services passing Horley yesterday when a group of them were biking and sakteboarding on the island platform.
Only a few trains, luckily. Could have been much worse for all involved!
Yes. It affords passengers a degree of respect, which in turn may well be reflected back onto the railway.
Agreed.
Is there not normally a fine (but they can't use the word fine so they call it a penalty) displayed?
Not on a lot of the more modern stock and/or alarm labels, from what I can see.
