"Operational incident" between Barnham and Havant 03/04

[CC 72100]

Considering that Operating incident is the actually the global term for TPWS/SPAD/Stop short/Incorrect door releases etc. inside the industry, then to refer to them as such publicly isn't smoke and mirrors at all.

 

[AlterEgo]

'operating incident' IS plain English.

If 'This train is delayed due to activation of a safety system' Someone will still say that is hiding what actually happened 'activation of a safety system' is just as generic as 'operating incident'

It isn't plain English as it doesn't actually say what is going on.

It doesn't really matter if "someone" will still complain. I'm only saying the balance needs to go in the right direction.

 

[ComUtoR]

It doesn't really matter if "someone" will still complain. I'm only saying the balance needs to go in the right direction.

Clearly it does matter. Someone is complaining and making a mountain out of a molehill.

How do you announce a TPWS activation ? The only clear and honest way is to say "TPWS activation" No acronym would be "train protection warning system" and plain English would be "safety system activation"

The term "operating incident" is quite serious and easily understood. Personally I think that is a good balance between information and a specific reason. I also don't believe we should be announcing there was a SPAD/Signal passed at danger. Do passengers really need to know that and how would they feel if on a train where the word 'danger' is being used.

This is not much different to 'Emergency services dealing with an incident'

 

[LAX54]

If you used TRAIN PROTECTION WARNING SYSTEM in an announcement, then most of those travelling would think there was about to be another train crashing into them !

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I'd just like apologise for my little vent off a couple of posts ago, but some people just make me so angry when they think that they can pry into private & confidential information just because I pay a fare.

 

[Marklund]

It isn't plain English as it doesn't actually say what is going on.

It doesn't really matter if "someone" will still complain. I'm only saying the balance needs to go in the right direction.

Of course it does. It tells you there's an incident that's affecting operations.
Do you need to know, for instance, that an ECR has dropped? No.

 

[godfreycomplex]

I'd just like apologise for my little vent off a couple of posts ago, but some people just make me so angry when they think that they can pry into private & confidential information just because I pay a fare.

Don't apologise; you're not the only one who thinks that way

 

[ValleyLines142]

Some of you are getting quite sharp on here. Come on guys, let's all play nicely!

 

[LAX54]

I am a Signaller, I work in Operations, (Signaller is in 'Operations' ) when I have a signal failure, points failure, track defect etc, it is an incident, in the log its an' incident'.
Thus its reported as an "Operational (as in Operations) Incident". That's ALL anyone needs to know.

 

[Llanigraham]

I'd just like apologise for my little vent off a couple of posts ago, but some people just make me so angry when they think that they can pry into private & confidential information just because I pay a fare.

I don't think you have anything to apologise for.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The main thing that people want to know is approx how long the delay is going to last for. If it's something like a signal failure or a points failure you know you've got at least an hours delay whilst the engineers get to the site and work out what needs fixing. If it's a track defect then you'd expect all trains to be going slower over the section.

If a driver needs to be re-leaved then they could just say that. As long as people know how long a delay is going to be, they can adjust their journeys (or abandon their journey if it's no longer viable)

 

[GW43125]

If a driver needs to be re-leaved then they could just say that. As long as people know how long a delay is going to be, they can adjust their journeys (or abandon their journey if it's no longer viable)

Again, i don't wish to start up anything again but once on a charter, departure time came and went with no sign of the train, we were then told that it's be about another hour as they'd cocked up and another driver was in a cab from Eastleigh. Something as simple as that would be fine. If I'm honest we found it more amusing than anything else.

Also, apologies all for my outburst earlier. Wasn't in the best of moods.

 

[HowardGWR]

If a driver needs to be re-leaved then they could just say that.

Sounds uncomfortable to me, a root and branch action clearly.

 

[ComUtoR]

The main thing that people want to know is approx how long the delay is going to last for. If it's something like a signal failure or a points failure you know you've got at least an hours delay...

Signal failure typically results in it being passed at danger. Less than a few minutes delay. There is no catch all time-frame for any incident. It's very much a proverbial piece of string.

 

[455driver]

My money is on a SPAD or similar. They usually cover them up like this.

SO its a cover up is it? :roll:

 

[GW43125]

Sounds uncomfortable to me, a root and branch action clearly.

As long as the driver hasn't committed trees-on, all is well.

 

[CarlSilva]

I wouild have thought it's best for the passenger to be give n the most information possible. So they are best placed to decide what to do next. For instance, they might needs to ring a taxi for when they arrive, cancel a lift which is waiting at their destination, leave the train and make differeint arrangements.

 

[455driver]

Originally Posted by GW43125
Note how it's all those with access going "tough s**t". Hypocrisy or what?

what access is that then?
Apart from being able to see very limited things for my own TOC, if there is an 'operating incident' on my TOC I cant see it, would you like me to pass your toy back? :roll:

 

[GW43125]

what access is that then?
Apart from being able to see very limited things for my own TOC, if there is an 'operating incident' on my TOC I cant see it, would you like me to pass your toy back? :roll:

Yes please.

 

[455driver]

It's a sad state of affairs when I could find out more on SWT's website than the guard knew.

But its actually quite normal.
Control will be dealing with the incident and are unable to answer the phone, the social media team will be informed* about it and be able to get it posted for everyone else.

Some guards are now asking if anyone gets any information can they let the guard know, I kid you not!

*informed as it being shouted across from one desk to another.

 

[455driver]

I am a Signaller, I work in Operations, (Signaller is in 'Operations' ) when I have a signal failure, points failure, track defect etc, it is an incident, in the log its an' incident'.
Thus its reported as an "Operational (as in Operations) Incident". That's ALL anyone needs to know.

So every time there is an 'operational incident' its the signallers fault!

Only joking!

 

[Marklund]

I wouild have thought it's best for the passenger to be give n the most information possible. So they are best placed to decide what to do next. For instance, they might needs to ring a taxi for when they arrive, cancel a lift which is waiting at their destination, leave the train and make differeint arrangements.

They should give you a timescale, without a doubt, but a passenger is not going to know how long a burst hydraulic hose on a set of Clamp Locks will take to get the train running. :roll:

 

[GW43125]

Some guards are now asking if anyone gets any information can they let the guard know, I kid you not!

I did once walk up to the guard when I got off at Clapham and tell him it was an ill driver because he said he didn't have a clue!

 

[bnm]

The incident that's under discussion was a Category A SPAD.

On the issue of giving information to the public, I think 'Operational Incident' is too woolly. Particularly when the TOC concerned then gives out misinformation saying it was a signal failure. A Category A SPAD is precisely the opposite according the industry's own definition:

"...where signals have been passed when a stop aspect..., or indication (and any associated preceding cautionary indications) was displayed correctly and in sufficient time for the train to be stopped safely at the signal..."

I see no problem telling the public that a signal was passed at danger. That's all that need be said through the communication channels to the travelling public.

 

[boing_uk]

If it was a "police incident" either on the railway or public streets would you be badgering the police for a reason on whats going on?

No need, because the cops would probably be tweeting about it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Of course it does. It tells you there's an incident that's affecting operations.
Do you need to know, for instance, that an ECR has dropped? No.

Why is it so hard for people to understand there's a middle ground between "operational incident" and raining acronyms on people?

I wasn't suggesting people get told an ECR has dropped, was I?

Why not look at the old thread I linked to upthread where I outlined my whole argument and evidenced why things need to change with passenger survey data?

 

[GW43125]

The incident that's under discussion was a Category A SPAD.

On the issue of giving information to the public, I think 'Operational Incident' is too woolly. Particularly when the TOC concerned then gives out misinformation saying it was a signal failure. A Category A SPAD is precisely the opposite according the industry's own definition:

"...where signals have been passed when a stop aspect..., or indication (and any associated preceding cautionary indications) was displayed correctly and in sufficient time for the train to be stopped safely at the signal..."

I see no problem telling the public that a signal was passed at danger. That's all that need be said through the communication channels to the travelling public.

Thing is, we don't know why. Cat A SPAD isn't necessarily the driver's fault, just take a look at 1B47 at Broughty Ferry for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BsqkA7zES8

 

[JN114]

Due to an Operational Incident between Anytown and Beeford, train services between these stations may be Cancelled, Revised or Delayed by up to 90 minutes. Replacement Road Transport is in operation between these stations. Disruption is expected until 16:00 today.

Why is that, or variations upon insufficient? Per ATOC (RDG) guidelines that is a perfect disruption message for Passenger Information During Disruption. It says what the problem is (operational incident), the impact of that problem (cancelled/revised/delayed) and Advice to passengers for alternatives etc. For any kind of serious disruption that would have to be reviewed and updated every 20 minutes, or when significant changes to impact or advice occur; whichever is sooner.

 

[Dave1987]

The incident that's under discussion was a Category A SPAD.

On the issue of giving information to the public, I think 'Operational Incident' is too woolly. Particularly when the TOC concerned then gives out misinformation saying it was a signal failure. A Category A SPAD is precisely the opposite according the industry's own definition:

"...where signals have been passed when a stop aspect..., or indication (and any associated preceding cautionary indications) was displayed correctly and in sufficient time for the train to be stopped safely at the signal..."

I see no problem telling the public that a signal was passed at danger. That's all that need be said through the communication channels to the travelling public.

You may see no problem with it but I and others certainly do!

 

[bnm]

Why should the truth be withheld and instead misinformation given?