Operational Incident at Blackfriars

[jon0844]

More often than any of the above it’s used to indicate a one-under.

In my experience, a person hit by a train is now stated as exactly that.

 

[Ianno87]

In my experience, a person hit by a train is now stated as exactly that.

Of late, the trend on Twitter seems to be words to the effect of "we are saddened to report that a person has been hit by one of our trains" (or words to that effect) and being open about it.

 

[Class2ldn]

When we stop at Farringdon and release the doors as long as the switch for the pan is in auto the train will do the pan on its own as long as we stop at the correct point.
If we stop at the 12 with an 8 or vice versa(stop short) the train won't do it so has to be done manually.
Also if we are ecs we still have to stop and let the train do the pan so its more then likely an ecs move and they have just carried on straight through.
It happens unfortunately, nowhere near as much as it used to though because of the auto changeover.
Generally the only way you could do this in service is if the switch was in ac instead of auto and the driver didn't notice but I very much doubt they'd completely forget .
As you go up the embankment to blackfriars there's plenty of evidence of it happening before lol

 

[theking]

What exactly happens when drivers forget? I thought the pantograph would simply sit redundant in the air, the train would leave before shortly crawling to a halt. The a case of switching to third rail power and carrying on. Or vice versa

The pan will come off of the end of the wires, the pan will extend to its highest point before the ADD (Automatic dropping device) activates and drops the pan.

Obviously if there is not much distance between the end of the wires and the obstruction the pan will hit it and come off.

 

[RichJF]

The pan will come off of the end of the wires, the pan will extend to its highest point before the ADD (Automatic dropping device) activates and drops the pan.

Obviously if there is not much distance between the end of the wires and the obstruction the pan will hit it and come off.

See this link for what happens when a pantograph isn't lowered from City Thameslink towards Blackfriars...


https://metro.co.uk/2014/01/02/trains-pantograph-crashes-into-roof-at-blackfriars-station-4247237/

 

[Aictos]

Not the first time this has happened, as on the 2nd January 2014 a First Capital Connect/South Eastern service from Sevenoaks to St Albans had it's pantograph hit the roof at London Blackfriars with delays of 45 minutes.

Adding of course the earlier points failure in the Luton area, which delayed a few trains early this morning.

 

[43066]

So when in passenger service Class 9, the pan drops auto, but when in ecs mode, the pan has to be lowered by the driver, just sounds like an accident waiting to happen....oh it did !

More to do with the fact the train physically has to stop for the system to drop the pan than the headcode (presumably at Farringdon rather than city TL - that’s where the pan always used to be dropped manually during 319 operation).

 

[Rhinojerry]

I am pretty sure there is a reminder sign for the driver at this location to drop pantograph.

 

[norbitonflyer]

See this link for what happens when a pantograph isn't lowered from City Thameslink towards Blackfriars...


https://metro.co.uk/2014/01/02/trains-pantograph-crashes-into-roof-at-blackfriars-station-4247237/

The pan will come off of the end of the wires, the pan will extend to its highest point before the ADD (Automatic dropping device) activates and drops the pan.

Obviously if there is not much distance between the end of the wires and the obstruction the pan will hit it and come off.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to extend the wires(not necessarily energised) through the station so that if it failsto drop it willspring up beyond the station, where there is plenty of room for the ADD to operate?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2021 ==

Presumably the train can carry on applying power (via the rear pan) until the auto dropping activates?

It will be taking power from the 3rd rail as well - or are the shoes isolated when the pantographs are raised?

 

[Omnishambles]

I am pretty sure there is a reminder sign for the driver at this location to drop pantograph.

There is at City TL

 

[whoosh]

I don't know exactly what happened in this incident, but a previous incident that has happened is that a Northbound train has come into City Thameslink, whereupon the train has automatically switched to AC and raised the pans, but the instruction has come from Control to terminate there and go back Southbound.
The Driver then changed ends and set off - with the pans still up. That it changed over automatically, and the Driver hadn't had any input, or not had an input when they would normally have one, I think is a factor.

Taking trains into Smithfield Sidings (which is North of the changeover point in City Thameslink, but is third rail only) is another place where mistakes like that can happen.

 

[westcoaster]

I don't know exactly what happened in this incident, but a previous incident that has happened is that a Northbound train has come into City Thameslink, whereupon the train has automatically switched to AC and raised the pans, but the instruction has come from Control to terminate there and go back Southbound.
The Driver then changed ends and set off - with the pans still up. That it changed over automatically, and the Driver hadn't had any input, or not had an input when they would normally have one, I think is a factor.

Taking trains into Smithfield Sidings (which is North of the changeover point in City Thameslink, but is third rail only) is another place where mistakes like that can happen.

A new working instruction came in to deal with Smithfield sidings. All trains are stopped and called by the signaller to confirm the train is in DC mode, before the signaller clears the route into the Sidings.

 

[whoosh]

A new working instruction came in to deal with Smithfield sidings. All trains are stopped and called by the signaller to confirm the train is in DC mode, before the signaller clears the route into the Sidings.

You are right, that should happen!

 

[IanXC]

Severe disruption to Thameslink services this morning due to what is described as an 'operational incident' at Blackfriars. Delays of up to around 60 mins.

GTR deciding to keep things mysterious rather than use the perfectly available reason "damage to the overhead electric wires".

In my experience, a person hit by a train is now stated as exactly that.

There two schools of thought:

"a person hit by a train"

Or, for those TOCs who follow The Samaritans advice:

"the emergency services dealing with an incident"

 

[bramling]

GTR deciding to keep things mysterious rather than use the perfectly available reason "damage to the overhead electric wires".



There two schools of thought:

"a person hit by a train"

Or, for those TOCs who follow The Samaritans advice:

"the emergency services dealing with an incident"

The GN side seems to have had a bit of a meltdown this evening due to a fatality at Stevenage. My neighbour was stuck on a train for nearly 4 hours coming north, and he says someone else was stuck at King’s Cross and essentially told only option was to travel up the Midland side and “see if you can get a friend or relative to pick you up from Luton”.

Some Smart Alec has also managed to put a lovely comment on Twitter about how there was a train in Welwyn platform 3 but no attempt being made to use platform 4. Tempting to put something on there about a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing, as judging by the Jxx reporting number the quoted train on platform 3 would be a 12-car 700 thus blocking the relevant points.

 

[Class2ldn]

GTR deciding to keep things mysterious rather than use the perfectly available reason "damage to the overhead electric wires".



There two schools of thought:

"a person hit by a train"

Or, for those TOCs who follow The Samaritans advice:

"the emergency services dealing with an incident"

Well thats because there was no damage to the overheads?
The lack of overheads being the issue lol.

 

[Ianno87]

Well thats because there was no damage to the overheads?
The lack of overheads being the issue lol.

And technically, it's conductor bar there, not wires.

 

[Class2ldn]

Yeah but they wouldn't put that to the public, way more technical then they'd need to know for that .

 

[Ianno87]

Yeah but they wouldn't put that to the public, way more technical then they'd need to know for that .

If they Tweet "a problem with the overhead wires" them some smart-arse Tweets back that there aren't any!

"Operational Incident" probably is appropriate in this case.

 

[Surreytraveller]

If they Tweet "a problem with the overhead wires" them some smart-arse Tweets back that there aren't any!

"Operational Incident" probably is appropriate in this case.

Indeed. A driver failing to lower the paragraph is an 'operational incident'

 

[43096]

Indeed. A driver failing to lower the paragraph is an 'operational incident'

The problem with that wording is that it covers a multitude of sins, much like BR’s old “operating difficulties” excuse. Rather than treating people as idiots, why not just say what the problem is?

 

[Class2ldn]

Exactly

 

[flitwickbeds]

Had two terrible journeys to work and back yesterday. Shift was 1pm-8.45pm.

Looked on the National Rail app around 1045 and saw Thameslink services were in meltdown and not reaching London due to the Blackfriars incident. My usual backup route from Arlesey was affected by the same problem.

Drove to Milton Keynes, battling with the 372 road closures along the way, eventually found the station car park (not signposted at all), eventually found the walking route to the station entrance (not signposted at all), ran for the 1222 train (realised the next train was half an hour after), grabbed a NWR only ticket, and was 45 minutes late for work.

On the way back, arrived at Euston to see all NWR trains cancelled. Various staff members refused to endorse my ticket for travel on another operator. Eventually got on the 2321 train which was half an hour late departing and arriving, and finally walked back in through my front door at 0128.

 

[Bald Rick]

And technically, it's conductor bar there, not wires.

It’s wires there old boy.

 

[Falcon1200]

GTR deciding to keep things mysterious rather than use the perfectly available reason "damage to the overhead electric wires".



There two schools of thought:

"a person hit by a train"

Or, for those TOCs who follow The Samaritans advice:

"the emergency services dealing with an incident"

At one time the message was 'a person hit by a train at x', however this encouraged lookie-loos to head to x to see what was happening. So it was changed to 'emergency services dealing with an incident', however this was recognised as being too vague, so it was changed to 'a person hit by a train between a and b', a and b being far enough apart that the exact location was not easily identifiable. Some TOCs do still prefer the earlier message though.

 

[fairysdad]

If they Tweet "a problem with the overhead wires" them some smart-arse Tweets back that there aren't any!

To which the only sensible reply would be "Yes, that was the problem."

 

[MedwayValiant]

I was at Rochester station yesterday morning. I was going elsewhere and so I wasn't personally affected by this incident, but a couple of curious things.

The first announcement about the incident did in fact refer to "damage to the overhead electric wires", but within minutes that had been changed to "an operational incident". Whether Management ordered that change of wording precisely because someone had gone to Twitter to say "no overhead wires here" I don't know.

Both those announcements and the screens stated that the 0912 service to Luton was cancelled - but it did in fact run. Presumably terminating short, but that wasn't announced and neither was anything else. It was a little surreal to see a train stop and take on passengers while the screens insisted that it was cancelled!

 

[Horizon22]

While I’m sad to see the line closed and people’s journeys affected, I’m glad “operational incident” turned out to be a (somewhat silly and embarrassing) driver mistake and not a derailment as I had first feared. That’s usually what has happened when train staff use that term, I’ve found.

Not necessarily - it is normally a SPAD, wrong side door release, pantograph issue etc. usually. Basically something internal to the railway that has gone "wrong" (usually a driver mistake) which generally is complex and don't really want the full details broadcast.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2021 ==

I've never once on National Rail heard a one under referred to as an operating incident!

I've seen it several times - although I find you can normally described it satisfactorily as a "fault/issue with the signalling system".

 

[Surreytraveller]

I was at Rochester station yesterday morning. I was going elsewhere and so I wasn't personally affected by this incident, but a couple of curious things.

The first announcement about the incident did in fact refer to "damage to the overhead electric wires", but within minutes that had been changed to "an operational incident". Whether Management ordered that change of wording precisely because someone had gone to Twitter to say "no overhead wires here" I don't know.

Both those announcements and the screens stated that the 0912 service to Luton was cancelled - but it did in fact run. Presumably terminating short, but that wasn't announced and neither was anything else. It was a little surreal to see a train stop and take on passengers while the screens insisted that it was cancelled!

A lot of time management will get them to change the excuse just to stamp their authority and to justify their existence in life

 

[Horizon22]

There is at City TL

And a massive one at Farringdon also to ensure drivers drop.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2021 ==

A lot of time management will get them to change the excuse just to stamp their authority and to justify their existence in life

Or to be technically correct instead maybe.