Open access-What's going on?

[GNERman]

What on earth is happening with the Open Access situation?
Many other operators are wanting to start serivces but has anyone heard what is happening with:

Grand Union=Bradford Interchange-London Kings Cross
Hull Trains=Harrogate-London Kings Cross
Grand Central=Extra Sunderland Trains
Glasgow Trains=Glasgow-Nottingham/Liverpool
Humber Coast and City Railway=Cleethorpes-Stratford
Platinum Trains=Aberdeen-London Kings Cross

 

[anthony263]

i know that i read a few months ago in one of teh various railway magazines i buy that the grand union proposals from bradford to london were withdrawn and the other operators on the east coast mainline had objected to grand central having additional paths on their sunderland to london service.


i belive that the glasgow to liverpool service was supposed to be all go but again network rail were only able to offer low paths at the present time so that proposed service has been delayed.

 

[P156KWJ]

what gets me about Glasgow trains is... is there demand for Nottingham-Glasgow? Well, I wouldn't mind some extra trains - preferably LHCS

 

[Mintona]

Nottingham - Glasgow is currently the one looking most likely to begin anytime soon. Ish.

 

[GNERman]

Bradford to London was withdrawn via the West Coast but they wouldn't have made this video for no reason...
http://www.grandunionrail.com/
At bottom of page...

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Grand Union – I think services restricted due to pathing difficulties and protection of Virgin Trains covering similar routes. Planned future services using stock leased from Sovereign Trains in 2010.

Hull Trains – Application to run Harrogate – Kings Cross still being considered.

Grand Central – Planned to double Sunderland – London Kings Cross services this month.

Glasgow Trains - Two planned services running between Glasgow – Liverpool/Nottingham with a single train from Glasgow that would divide at
Preston. There proposal was put forward in Novemeber 2005. Renaissance trains have since planned train paths to allow them to use their operations.

Humber Coast and City Railway – Again proposed by Renaissance Trains, although still merely a proposal, Renaissance Trains are still in negotiations with NR regarding track access agreement.

Platinum Trains– Running limited stop between Aberdeen – London using class 180 units – no news.

 

[djw1981]

The GC and HT options are, together with NXEC plans for new paths and services, being considered by ORR as to which combination of allocating new paths will provide the best service for passengers (allegedly)IIRc these would start in either May or December.

 

[P156KWJ]

Nottingham - Glasgow is currently the one looking most likely to begin anytime soon. Ish.

would it be skips and cargo-D stock again do you reckon? Cause there aren't enough 67s for everyone

 

[GNERman]

They have said that they want 158's to split at Preston and one to run to Liverppol and other to Nottingham. They have also said that they may run the service via the Settle-Carlisle line and via Leeds and Sheffield. That would be good for me!

 

[Max]

They have said that they want 158's to split at Preston and one to run to Liverppol and other to Nottingham. They have also said that they may run the service via the Settle-Carlisle line and via Leeds and Sheffield. That would be good for me!

So where are these 158s going to appear from? Most TOCs seem to have dire shortages, look at EMT for example!

 

[GNERman]

This is just what they have said-I can personally see them looking at Turbostars or Adelantes or even new build for this.

 

[Max]

This is just what they have said-I can personally see them looking at Turbostars or Adelantes or even new build for this.

To be honest, I believe that Turbostars/Adelantes should be allocated to where capacity is desperately needed, not to frivolous and unproven new routes. Of course, they could go down the loco+mk2 route, I'm sure they could find something suitable. It would just be the joining/splitting part that could make this difficult I imagine.

 

[tbtc]

To be honest, I believe that Turbostars/Adelantes should be allocated to where capacity is desperately needed, not to frivolous and unproven new routes. Of course, they could go down the loco+mk2 route, I'm sure they could find something suitable. It would just be the joining/splitting part that could make this difficult I imagine.

Totally agree with you. It'd be daft for unproven services to get decent stock when existing TOCs are struggling to meet demant (EMT etc).

As for "new builds" - when ten year franchises don't dare commit to building new stock, I very much doubt an "open access" operator with a shaky business case and lack of long term security is going to...

 

[GNERman]

I suppose loco hauled would do it better but what locos would be used-prob something with a DVT

 

[MCR247]

Would it be possible to use stock in this formation:

<LOCO>MK2 MK2 MK2 MK2 DVT>VT MK2 MK2 MK2 MK2 <LOCO>***
OR with 3 MK2's in each set. And then split at Preston.

***This loco, could possibly join at Preston if possible.This would only work well if they stock was ALWAYS the right way round. It would not work if diversions were in place, where you might have to change directions

 

[ashworth]

Nottingham - Glasgow is currently the one looking most likely to begin anytime soon. Ish.

That's what I had heard too but there have been lots of rumours about which route.
The most recent rumours have been that Settle-Carlisle seems to be the most likely if Liverpool was not included. However, I thought that the Settle and Carlisle was just about at full capacity and there were also questions about capacity at Leeds for trains needing to make a reversal.

 

[GNERman]

Why don't they just redo the signalling on the S+C as at the moment there is like a huge gap between the signals. They could double the capacity and this would be better for open access and charters

 

[WillPS]

Would the Glasgow Trains service stop at Sheffield?

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Since my original post, after reading some of the comments on this forum I am becoming increasingly sceptial about whether this Glasgow trains thing will ever take off - there are so many things restricting it regarding pathing difficulties, traction, rolling stock, splitting, turning around, etc.

 

[ashworth]

I think the problems of pathing either via Preston and Manchester or S&C all show the problems of Open Access and indeed to a lesser extent all of the individual TOC's that we have these days all competing for limited capacity. It's a great shame that through services can no longer easily be run because they go over the boundaries into another operators territory. It is now slightly easier on this route now that we are only dealing with Northern from Nottingham to Carlisle and then Virgin from Carlisle to Glasgow. Before this month there was also EMT to consider between Nottingham and Sheffield. It was so much easier in BR days.

There should be no problem with providing a fairly fast Nottingham to Glasgow service routed via the S&C by using paths currently available. The only problems may be north of Carlisle but then again the WCML north of carlisle isn't so heavily used as further south.

The service could be run by combining some of Northerns Nottingham-Leeds and Leeds-Carlisle services. Indeed the 0947 from Leeds to Carlisle and the 1503 return from Carlisle are already slightly faster limited stop services which for a short time a few years ago ran to/from Glasgow.

 

[me123]

Good to see Glasgow Trains is actually coming along. There is a decent demand for Glasgow-Leeds/Sheffield but there are few direct trains. This route would help that market out.

Paths are definitely available Carlisle-Glasgow, although they would be tight. And platforming at GLC isn't a problem provided you miss the morning and evening peak (probably less than an hour in the morning and afternoon).

 

[The Planner]

Why don't they just redo the signalling on the S+C as at the moment there is like a huge gap between the signals. They could double the capacity and this would be better for open access and charters

IBS signals are being put in at the moment as far as I was aware.

 

[Donny Dave]

I'll be very surprised if Platinum Trains are allowed to run. They are only after 2 markets. London - Edinburgh (already has a very good service with NXEC) and Edinburgh - Aberdeen (NXEC and Scotrail). They're proposals amount to nothing more than a big ORCATS raid.

Humber Coast and City - I thought this had been ruled out due to a lack of paths around Stratford? :?

 

[glynn80]

I'll be very surprised if Platinum Trains are allowed to run. They are only after 2 markets. London - Edinburgh (already has a very good service with NXEC) and Edinburgh - Aberdeen (NXEC and Scotrail). They're proposals amount to nothing more than a big ORCATS raid.

Humber Coast and City - I thought this had been ruled out due to a lack of paths around Stratford? :?

Without looking at timetabling it would be difficult to justify this claim due to the complexity with ORCATS. It would depend on the number of NXEC trains it overtook etc.

 

[tbtc]

I'll be very surprised if Platinum Trains are allowed to run. They are only after 2 markets. London - Edinburgh (already has a very good service with NXEC) and Edinburgh - Aberdeen (NXEC and Scotrail). They're proposals amount to nothing more than a big ORCATS raid.

Humber Coast and City - I thought this had been ruled out due to a lack of paths around Stratford? :?

The Platinum proposal should never be considered, it doesn't offer *anything*.

If they find paths for it (bearing in mind the tight spots like the Forth Bridge and Welwyn viaduct) then maybe there's a chance it could overtake a NXEC service at York to provide a slightly faster journey, but if DaFT think this is a good use of resources then... :roll:

 

[BOSCH]

What you should bear in mind is that no-one is allowed to overtake a nxec train,full stop !!! The 0641 GC ex s/land passes 1A15 at doncaster at about 0837ish,1A15 should depart donny at 0838,it is always invariably late,however,1A60 has to stand at loversall for around 5-6 minutes to allow the 1A15 to pass,now the last 2 mornings 1A60 has been on time at donny and 1A15 has been late or just pulling into donny so GC's 1A60 has been given a clear run the last 2 days or so we thought !!! Monday - 1A60 put into connington loop for at least 10 minutes to allow 1A15 to pass..Today(tuesday)1A60 held at grantham to allow norwich service to depart(even though 1A60 5 mins early due to late running into donny of 1A15 !!!)eventually on move vitually on time but then put onto slow line at stoke to eventually allow 1A15 to pass resulting in late running to KX (checked down thru p/boro,thanks guys !!!

 

[upyourjunction]

What you should bear in mind is that no-one is allowed to overtake a nxec train,full stop !!! The 0641 GC ex s/land passes 1A15 at doncaster at about 0837ish,1A15 should depart donny at 0838,it is always invariably late,however,1A60 has to stand at loversall for around 5-6 minutes to allow the 1A15 to pass,now the last 2 mornings 1A60 has been on time at donny and 1A15 has been late or just pulling into donny so GC's 1A60 has been given a clear run the last 2 days or so we thought !!! Monday - 1A60 put into connington loop for at least 10 minutes to allow 1A15 to pass..Today(tuesday)1A60 held at grantham to allow norwich service to depart(even though 1A60 5 mins early due to late running into donny of 1A15 !!!)eventually on move vitually on time but then put onto slow line at stoke to eventually allow 1A15 to pass resulting in late running to KX (checked down thru p/boro,thanks guys !!!

Are you new to the railway or something, its what happens all the time, its called being a railwayman. Slow running freight trains, locals, failed GC trains, all these things are sent to try us! You just have to sit back & let it wash over you or it'll drive you mad. Give it another 30 years & you might get used to it!

 

[BOSCH]

Are you new to the railway or something, its what happens all the time, its called being a railwayman. Slow running freight trains, locals, failed GC trains, all these things are sent to try us! You just have to sit back & let it wash over you or it'll drive you mad. Give it another 30 years & you might get used to it!

I wouldnt call 20 odd years service "new to the railway" !! I know how it works,what Im trying to say is that if a GC service is late after dep york to kx and bear in mind is non stop,no nxec stoppers are held to allow GC services to pass very often,the 1A15 situation is a daily occurence,it is nearly always late at donny !!

 

[upyourjunction]

I wouldnt call 20 odd years service "new to the railway" !! I know how it works,what Im trying to say is that if a GC service is late after dep york to kx and bear in mind is non stop,no nxec stoppers are held to allow GC services to pass very often,the 1A15 situation is a daily occurence,it is nearly always late at donny !!

I do apologise for inferring you were a newbie, we get it at cambridge jn & welling from FCC but you have to grin & bear it!

 

[D841]

I thought Platinum trains was about getting passengers off BA and Easyjet, etc., rather than trying to abstract revenue from NXEC.