Oops Gatwick Express is not fastest

[jon0844]

Not too sure how fully the NRCoC apply to HEX, but if the ticket desk is unmanned you ought to be allowed to buy on board with your railcard at the discounted price.

Last time I moaned on the train, I was told by the HEX TM that they're not bound by the normal regulations as they're a separate company. I don't believe that is true, but that's what I was told nonetheless.

 

[ainsworth74]

Last time I moaned on the train, I was told by the HEX TM that they're not bound by the normal regulations as they're a separate company. I don't believe that is true, but that's what I was told nonetheless.

Hmm the HEX TM might have a point. Acording to the NRCoC:

(q) “Train Company” means a company operating passenger railway services which
is required to apply these Conditions to its tickets under a condition of the
Passenger Licence granted to it by the Office of Rail Regulation. A list of these
companies can be found in Appendix C. “Train Companies” means all or more
than one of these Companies;

Whilst Appendix C lists the following as TOCs:

Arriva Trains Wales/Trenau Arriva Cymru Limited
c2c Rail Limited
East Coast Main Line Company Limited (trading as East Coast)
East Midlands Trains Limited
First Capital Connect Limited
First Greater Western Limited (trading as First Great Western)
First ScotRail Limited (trading as Scotrail)
First/Keolis TransPennine Limited (trading as TransPennine Express)
Grand Central Railway Company Limited (trading as Grand Central)
Hull Trains Company Limited
London & Birmingham Railway Limited (trading as London Midland)
London Overground Rail Operations Limited
London & South Eastern Railway Limited (trading as Southeastern)
London Eastern Railway Limited (trading as National Express East Anglia, and Stansted
Express)
Merseyrail Electrics 2002 Limited
Southern Railway Limited (trading as Southern)
Northern Rail Limited
Stagecoach South Western Trains Limited (trading as South West Trains and Island Line)
The Chiltern Railway Company Limited
The Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway Company Limited (trading as
Wrexham and Shropshire)
West Coast Trains Limited (trading as Virgin Trains)
XC Trains Limited (trading as CrossCountry)

This list dates from December 2009 hence the inclusion of WSMR

Now by my (admittedly inexpert) reading of that HEX are outside of the NRCoC as they are not listed within the NRCoC as a train company which is bound by the CoC. Still I'm more than happy to be proved wrong as it seems odd that HEX are outside of the NRCoC.

 

[Greenback]

I think you are right. Heathrow Express has never been considered to be part of 'National Rail', and has never been covered by the NCoC. They have their own, but I can't get them to download properly on my PC!

 

[SS4]

I think you are right. Heathrow Express has never been considered to be part of 'National Rail', and has never been covered by the NCoC. They have their own, but I can't get them to download properly on my PC!

https://www.heathrowexpress.com/Files/2009 HEX Conditions of Carriage.pdf

There's a link at the bottom of the homepage

 

[Greenback]

Thanks for the lnk, it's downloaded now but it wouldn't earlier - I think it's the PC, I had to reboot it!

 

[shinkansen1966]

Last weekend, went from Victoria to Brighton. On the way out, used 442 'Gatwick Express' rolling stock. And noticed other Victoria to Brighton stock is also formed of 442s . I also hadn't realised that the Darth Vader rolling stock is nowhere to be seen. So what's happened to that these days ?

So there really is no difference at all between Gatwick Express train and regular fast Brighton trains. So what extra exactly do you get with the Gatwick Express service ?

 

[island]

So there really is no difference at all between Gatwick Express train and regular fast Brighton trains. So what extra exactly do you get with the Gatwick Express service ?

You get to buy on board between GTW and VIC, and you get to pay extra. You also don't get complimentary refreshments in First.

 

[Minstral25]

They should do!

I think to logically split travellers and Brightonians would be just to tell them to use different parts of the train. It's not perfect, but people heading to Brighton gravitate to the front anyway - and people with luggage get on anyway.

So if you just had platform staff at Victoria and CJ trying to split them a bit more through announcements etc.... it might be enough if all are 12 car.

Sounds good - and I can be 100% sure that 12 coach trains (or 10 Coach 442's) will have more than sufficient seats except in the peak when extra trains should be run anyway.

 

[NightatLaira]

You get to buy on board between GTW and VIC, and you get to pay extra. You also don't get complimentary refreshments in First.

Haha - love it!

 

[Southern]

The Problem is that the Portsmouth/ Southampton services dont justify more coaches after Horsham and in an idea world would be non stop from Gatwick to East Croydon. Unfortunately that would introduce a conflicting move to the fast lines at Three Bridges that would reduce capacity.
Its still not clear how the new Thameslink services are going to be accommodated on BML without considerable infrastructure expenditure especially since the coastway services have been pulled from Thameslink.

Really? The times I've used this service, the front portion that is first stop Barnham always seemed quite full. There even used to be a couple of weekend services down the Arun Valley booked 12 377, although I think this has now stopped.

 

[Malderon]

The Problem is that the Portsmouth/ Southampton services dont justify more coaches after Horsham and in an idea world would be non stop from Gatwick to East Croydon. Unfortunately that would introduce a conflicting move to the fast lines at Three Bridges that would reduce capacity.
Its still not clear how the new Thameslink services are going to be accommodated on BML without considerable infrastructure expenditure especially since the coastway services have been pulled from Thameslink.

Really? The times I've used this service, the front portion that is first stop Barnham always seemed quite full. There even used to be a couple of weekend services down the Arun Valley booked 12 377, although I think this has now stopped.

Excuse me while I drag this thread off topic (sorry!)

As someone who uses these services daily I can say that its quite variable the use they get.

I think the main places being travelled to assuming you are going south from Horsham are Bognor and Chichester, with decent amounts also going to Havant (people working in East Croydon or West End, ticket prices also tend to be more competitive than SWT into Waterloo).

4 coaches is usually enough for the fast portion south of Horsham, I can't comment on the rear 8 (peak) as I'm not usually in it but it strikes me that almost anyone going to Bognor travells in the fast portion then changes at Barnham onto a shuttle (must only save 5-10 mins but everyone seems to do it) so I have to question what are the eight coaches into Bognor carrying. Is it simply a case of needing 12 coaches as far as Horsham and then having to do something with the rest?

Although I'm not sure if it would work I actually thought the 442s might be nice for the Arun Valley services. They are meant to be comfortable (although I'm yet to ride them I would love 2+2 throughout on the 377s) and I thought 5+5 splitting at Horsham would better match the capacity requirements than the 4fast 8slow at present.

The service I usually catch in the mornings is usually rammed but thats because it runs 4 coaches all the way to 3 bridges, its usually almost full after just Chichester and Barnham, so you can imagine after Horsham and Crawley it's getting pretty busy.

Now to get back on topic:

I've long been in favour of scrapping the Gatwick Express. There always seem to be statements about making things "clear" for airport users. But surely a nice big "Next Train to Gatwick" or "Next Train to London Victoria" & "Next Train to London Bridge" would be clear enough. They could also use one of those at East Croydon though (perhaps I'm about to counter my own argument). I'm forever getting asked by tourists (I'm not sure why there are tourists in Croydon) at ECR where they can catch a train to Gatwick, and they seem bemused when I tell them they need to catch a train to Brighton. (Why they ask me I have no idea, It's usually on platform 6 when I'm waiting for my Tattenham Corner train). Edit - because I'm just that bored I've produced an example of what they could really use at many points around East Croydon complete with example sponsor to reduce cost and with the service that I am forever directing people onto. Please note I have absolutely no design skills whatsoever, just an example of what I think could be used if all the Gatwick Express services were scrapped.
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1572/gatwick.png


The most important question is - how good would the 442s look in Southern Livery!

 

[LE Greys]

I've long been in favour of scrapping the Gatwick Express. There always seem to be statements about making things "clear" for airport users. But surely a nice big "Next Train to Gatwick" or "Next Train to London Victoria" & "Next Train to London Bridge" would be clear enough. They could also use one of those at East Croydon though (perhaps I'm about to counter my own argument). I'm forever getting asked by tourists (I'm not sure why there are tourists in Croydon) at ECR where they can catch a train to Gatwick, and they seem bemused when I tell them they need to catch a train to Brighton. (Why they ask me I have no idea, It's usually on platform 6 when I'm waiting for my Tattenham Corner train).

The most important question is - how good would the 442s look in Southern Livery!

I hope they'd use the version once painted on CIGs. There's far too much white on the Electrostar version, and it would be much better if all the white areas were painted over with light green, and the tiny logos increased in size (along with the station signs).

The board idea is a good one, and that should certainly be taken up.