• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

One new chord

Status
Not open for further replies.

adamedwards

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2016
Messages
796
You can build one new junction between two existing lines. Where would you build and why?
E.g. north curve at Hitchin to allow electric trains from the north to reach Cambridge.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,214
I once upon a time crayoned an idea for the "Catford Chord".

A connection from the Hayes line to the Catford loop lines at Catford/Catford Bridge.

The idea is to enable to replace (say) Hayes-Cannon Street trains with Hayes--Catford-Nunhead-Thameslink services (in place of Wimbledon Loop services running through). Thus freeing up some paths through Lewisham for other things.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,712
I once upon a time crayoned an idea for the "Catford Chord".

A connection from the Hayes line to the Catford loop lines at Catford/Catford Bridge.

The idea is to enable to replace (say) Hayes-Cannon Street trains with Hayes--Catford-Nunhead-Thameslink services (in place of Wimbledon Loop services running through). Thus freeing up some paths through Lewisham for other things.

You’re not the first to do that old boy.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
19,667
Chords from the Stechford Aston line to the Landor St Water Orton lines, proper crayonista and makes Sutton Park pretty redundant.
 

Sad Sprinter

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2017
Messages
3,186
Location
Way on down South London town
A chord from the Dudding Hill freight line onto the Chiltern Line at Neasden to allow Chiltern to be connected to Thameslink. Pointless I know but something I've always thought about now and again.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,028
Location
St Albans
A chord from the Dudding Hill freight line onto the Chiltern Line at Neasden to allow Chiltern to be connected to Thameslink. Pointless I know but something I've always thought about now and again.
In connection with Dudding Hill being used for LO, a physically almost impossible chord from the freight lines at West Hampstead Thameslink to the NLL between West Hampstead and Finchley Road & Frognal. If some land take was possible, it could involve 3-4% gradients to get over the four MML tracks, but with some improvements at Gospel Oak and through the Hampstead Heath area, it would allow GOBlin and some freight services to continue through to OOC without clogging TL & EM paths in Belsize tunnels. That route to OOC/Acton Wells Junction might be better than running freights straight through the busy West Hampstead to Willesden Junction section.
 

bussnapperwm

Established Member
Joined
18 May 2014
Messages
1,527
A chord from just past Sandwell and Dudley to link up The Hawthorns. This would allow both Shrewsbury services to divert to (with a bit of permissive working) a reinstated Platform 4/current platform 2 at Snow Hill, meaning they don't have to sit in the chaos that is New Street.
 

JKF

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2019
Messages
1,287
A chord from the former Clifton Bridge station on the Portishead branch connecting to the former docks line to Wapping Wharf, allowing alternate services on the Portishead line (half hourly of course) to run along the New Cut to a new station behind the M Shed sited more conveniently for Bristol city centre than Temple Meads. They’d have to ditch the new guided bus link over the old swing bridge to accommodate this, unless some sort of ‘street running’ system is employed.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
9,276
My crayons had the Portishead branch as tram train along that route nearer to the city centre and then following the old docks railway route to Temple Meads, operating through onto the Filton slow line services. But recent developments have all but made that impossible unfortunately.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,052
Location
Reston City Centre
Interesting idea for a thread.

Assuming ground conditions/ technology etc are trivial details (and we aren't going to get bogged down in practicalities) then I'd suggest a chord from Newark Castle to the ECML towards Retford, allowing long distance trains from the midlands to the north east (e.g. Birmingham - Derby - Nottingham - Newark Castle - Retford - Doncaster - York - Newcastle).

Other suggestions would be one from the Newquay branch permitting direct travel without reversal to St Austell/ Truro etc (rather than dumping people at Par)... or some of the other branches that join the main line in the "wrong" direction for most potential travellers.
 

Tobbes

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2012
Messages
1,242
Is it allowed to be part of a larger (unbuilt) scheme? If so, SW access to Heathrow Airtrack in Staines; S-N curve reinstatement at Newmarket to allow the building/rebuilding of a branch to Mildenhall for the new two to be built on the USAF base.
 

Railwaysceptic

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2017
Messages
1,736
In connection with Dudding Hill being used for LO, a physically almost impossible chord from the freight lines at West Hampstead Thameslink to the NLL between West Hampstead and Finchley Road & Frognal. If some land take was possible, it could involve 3-4% gradients to get over the four MML tracks, but with some improvements at Gospel Oak and through the Hampstead Heath area, it would allow GOBlin and some freight services to continue through to OOC without clogging TL & EM paths in Belsize tunnels. That route to OOC/Acton Wells Junction might be better than running freights straight through the busy West Hampstead to Willesden Junction section.
As I posted in another thread recently, you can achieve the same result by constructing a flyover between West Hampstead and Cricklewood taking the Hendon Lines over the MML onto the slow lines. Carlton Road Junction does the rest of the trick.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,028
Location
St Albans
As I posted in another thread recently, you can achieve the same result by constructing a flyover between West Hampstead and Cricklewood taking the Hendon Lines over the MML onto the slow lines. Carlton Road Junction does the rest of the trick.
But that not only increases the level of passenger traffic on the already pretty loaded MML slows, - it also means that freight also occupies that section for longer. Also, by running extra trains down to Carlton Road junction to reach the GOBlin there, those trains will be taking up paths from the TL slows and fasts and down slows through the Belsize tunnels and even blocking down fasts from using the ladder at CR junc., from crossing over to the MML fasts before the tunnel. The freight lines from Silkstream to West Hampstead South junction keep that freight away from all MML passenger trains, so if it was possible to squeeze chords up onto the NLL bridge before the Hampstead tunnel*, there would be virtually no impact on EM or TL traffic once built.
* I'm not suggesting that would be easy and would probably require some land take between West End Lane and Finchley Road.
 

mr_jrt

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2011
Messages
1,574
Location
Brighton
^^^ Without diverging too much from the thread topic, agreed. Needs new capacity to achieve that, and that basically means a short extension of the Hendon lines eastwards and tunnel between the former Finchley Road (Midland) and the Goblin around Highgate Road, in all likelihood making the Tottenham North tunnel #1 and Carlton Road junction defunct.
 

Railwaysceptic

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2017
Messages
1,736
But that not only increases the level of passenger traffic on the already pretty loaded MML slows, - it also means that freight also occupies that section for longer. Also, by running extra trains down to Carlton Road junction to reach the GOBlin there, those trains will be taking up paths from the TL slows and fasts and down slows through the Belsize tunnels and even blocking down fasts from using the ladder at CR junc., from crossing over to the MML fasts before the tunnel. The freight lines from Silkstream to West Hampstead South junction keep that freight away from all MML passenger trains, so if it was possible to squeeze chords up onto the NLL bridge before the Hampstead tunnel*, there would be virtually no impact on EM or TL traffic once built.
* I'm not suggesting that would be easy and would probably require some land take between West End Lane and Finchley Road.
Apart from a handful of freight trains, all the trains on the slow lines at West Hampstead proceed forward along the Moorgate Lines to St. Pancras where they are joined by several Thameslink trains each hour from Peterborough and Cambridge. If there is enough spare capacity for that, there must be some at West Hampstead too. Incidentally if you're worrying about lack of capacity, you should think about overloading the NLL between Finchley Road and Gospel Oak.

Building a flyover would not prevent the very few freight trains heading for Carlton Road from using Silkstream Junction and the Hendon Lines so there would be no increase in freight occupancy of the slow lines but there might be less. Remember, under this scheme, at West Hampstead the slow lines would now occupy the middle pair of tracks.

Trains using the fast lines would be unaffected because at West Hampstead they would now use the western-most pair of tracks and, unlike today, unimpeded by the occasional cement train heading for St. Pancras Churchyard.
 
Last edited:

Railwaysceptic

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2017
Messages
1,736
^^^ Without diverging too much from the thread topic, agreed. Needs new capacity to achieve that, and that basically means a short extension of the Hendon lines eastwards and tunnel between the former Finchley Road (Midland) and the Goblin around Highgate Road, in all likelihood making the Tottenham North tunnel #1 and Carlton Road junction defunct.
., . . and how much is that going to cost and who would pay for it?
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
7,840
A chord at Hellifield to allow through freight working across the Pennines without the need to reverse.
 

Ken H

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,718
Location
N Yorks
A chord at Hellifield to allow through freight working across the Pennines without the need to reverse.
put it through the housing estate where the cattle market was!

but I reckon this is a good idea to create a new leeds -blackburn route via skipton & clitheroe
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
19,350
Location
Yorkshire
Horbury curve, allowing faster Huddersfield to Sheffield services than the very scenic but painfully slow and indirect route via Penistone.
 

RichJF

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2012
Messages
1,200
Location
South London
A chord from the Cooksbridge - Lewes line curving southwards before Lewes station to enable trains to run to Brighton without having to travel through, reverse and block the East Coastway line when the BML inevitable goes haywire.
Then they can maintain the service and avoid the majority of the two track section.
 

Peter Kelford

Member
Joined
29 Nov 2017
Messages
903
My one chord: Welwyn 'Chord' from Welwyn GC station, across the Digswell valley to the other side. More like a new set of fast lines.
 

PTR 444

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2019
Messages
2,647
Location
Wimborne
My suggestion: A south to west chord from the Heart of Wessex Line to the West of England Main Line at Yeovil Junction. This will eliminate one of the reversals for Weymouth - Yeovil - London services as well as increase justification for a new direct Weymouth - Exeter train service.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
19,350
Location
Yorkshire
That wouldn't be a "new chord" - that would be reinstating an old one
Oops! In that case, how about a Dewsbury to Wakefield curve, using a short section of the closed Spen Valley line to link the two routes that split at Ravensthorpe. The amount of buses linking Dewsbury to Wakefield would suggest a fair amount of demand... fitting such a service in amongst the TPE fasts would be another matter though!
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
Scotland
*******

A chord at Drem allowing direct Edinburgh to Dunbar via North Berwick services eg services call as booked to North Berwick then head to Dunbar before calling as booked to Edinburgh.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,712
My one chord: Welwyn 'Chord' from Welwyn GC station, across the Digswell valley to the other side. More like a new set of fast lines.

If we’re going there, then mine is a chord from Camden Jn to Handsacre Jn.

(Gets coat)
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,504
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
A chord from the Marston Vale to Milton Keynes Central.

Trains could operate in a triangle like the Hadfield-Glossop route: Fenny Stratford - Milton Keynes - Bletchley - Fenny Stratford :D
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,712
Apart from a handful of freight trains, all the trains on the slow lines at West Hampstead proceed forward along the Moorgate Lines to St. Pancras where they are joined by several Thameslink trains each hour from Peterborough and Cambridge. If there is enough spare capacity for that, there must be some at West Hampstead too. Incidentally if you're worrying about lack of capacity, you should think about overloading the NLL between Finchley Road and Gospel Oak.

Just seen this. There isn’t capacity on the slows between W Hampstead and Carlton Road (in the peaks) because of

a) the crossing moves slow<>fast at WH south and Carlton Road
b) the different stopping patterns of the TL trains
c) the signal spacing, driven by the linespeed

And for services turning to or from Junction Rd Jn, the linespeed is slow, and clearing the junction takes time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top