On board catering: Which routes should (or shouldn't) provide it?

[robbeech]

I like the idea of vending machines on long distance trains. I understand there isn't a need on short-hop local lines, but if you're going from Exeter to Sheffield a cup of tea would be good. I do agree with the earlier comment; there does indeed seem to be people trying to make long distance rail travel as awful as they can by introducing short, cramped trains and removing all sense of on-board experience and quality.

Can you imagine the farce that would ensue the first time someone spilt a coffee out of the machine trying to put a lid on it and putting it in a bag though.....


Back to what is still the crucial issue here, ice cream. Last time I went on the S&C line I don't think they had ice cream, it was November though, I would have definitely had one or 6 had I known this. In fact if it is definitely still a thing then I will be going one day next week to have one. I'm supposed to be dairy free but I can manage an ice cream.

 

[yorksrob]

Can you imagine the farce that would ensue the first time someone spilt a coffee out of the machine trying to put a lid on it and putting it in a bag though.....


Back to what is still the crucial issue here, ice cream. Last time I went on the S&C line I don't think they had ice cream, it was November though, I would have definitely had one or 6 had I known this. In fact if it is definitely still a thing then I will be going one day next week to have one. I'm supposed to be dairy free but I can manage an ice cream.

I do enjoy the S&C ice cream, but I don't think they always stock it in winter. This time of year you should be fine though.

 

[robbeech]

Definitely need to get myself on it.. there is me complaining nobody does ice cream on trains and it has been there all along, on a bit of line I have been on too..

 

[A Challenge]

Not only are you a completely captive audience on a plane but you cannot bring on board nor are allowed to consume your own victuals unlike a train where you can not only take along a week's shopping from a supermarket but also the crockery and utensils to serve it on and the means to cook it with too.

Good luck getting an (even standalone) oven on a train. This leads back though to a hypothetical question of when we were in Canterbury and wondered if we could, for our evening meal, buy a microwave and a ready meal and cook it on the 395 back into London (underseat power sockets)?

 

[sheff1]

Not only are you a completely captive audience on a plane but you cannot bring on board nor are allowed to consume your own victuals

Of course you can. With the no frills carriers I often buy a Boots meal deal (or similar) at the airport and eat it on the plane. Even when I don't want anything to eat, I always take my own bottle of water on board.

Going back to trains, I think the OP summed it up when they said

It appears that in this day and age, on board catering will be most popular if, 1: There is little competition at stations or nearby. 2: The average passenger journey time on the train is around (or exceeds) an hour. 3: There is a decent passenger flow.

 

[robbeech]

Not sure you could pull the 3-4A a microwave needs, I guess it would depend how lightly loaded the rest of the sockets in that coach were.

 

[PeterC]

I have two issues with on-board catering - availability and cost.

In the old days with fixed buffets, you knew where to get refreshments. And because they were fixed, the range was a bit wider. Since 'trolleys' have appeared, things have gone down hill.
- You never know when they will appear.
- Quite often they go missing full stop. XC are notorious for this. This isn't helped by the staff changeover at B'ham New St. I used to regularly travel from Derby to Banbury and often got the 'we are stopping the catering as we have a staff handover at Birmingham New St' message as we pulling out of Derby station, with the trolley often not reappearing until halfway between Leamington Spa and Banbury!!
- the range is rubbish, and quite often most things are sold out. I used to have a bacon roll on XC but that has changed to a bacon roll with spicy tomato salsa - not really my cup of tea first thing in the morning!!

The end result of this is that I only use the trolley service when I absolutely have to.

This then leads to the second issue where I guess the fewer people that use it, the more a premium the rail companies charge to use it.

fixed buffets were no better. I have known them close an hour before the end of the journey. Choice was great in the morning but in the afternoon there might be not much more than a packet of crisps with your tea or can of beer.

 

[6Gman]

Pre 125's We used to travel from Cornwall to Paddington on the Golden Hind 5am from Penzance arriving Paddington at 10 am. Return at 17.30 again the Golden Hind. Cheap Day Return! Full English Breakfast up and 3 course meal going back down. They had 4 sittings in the restaurant car. Food was excellent!
125's arrived but cheap day returns dissapeared, and restrictions eg business class train on the 5am from Penzance.
Today only 1st class can get a dinner.
IMO I think they are losing a trick not doing meals on longer journeys. Big advantage over driving, considering the time saved. No doubt the offer has to be more limited with smaller area to prepare meals. Wetherspoon type ping meals burgers & steaks could be a good offer.
The new trains on order for the Plymouth and Cornwall route will not be very practical for dining. (2x5 coach units)

The days of a separate Restaurant Car are long-gone and won't return.

 

[6Gman]

I like the idea of vending machines on long distance trains. I understand there isn't a need on short-hop local lines, but if you're going from Exeter to Sheffield a cup of tea would be good. I do agree with the earlier comment; there does indeed seem to be people trying to make long distance rail travel as awful as they can by introducing short, cramped trains and removing all sense of on-board experience and quality.

Being an old chap (at least by the standards of this Forum ) I've actually travelled on a train - overnight West Country to Paddington - which featured a vending buffet, converted from one compartment in an SK.

It didn't work. I believe there were two main reasons.

1. Problems of maintaining stock levels (an hour or two into the journey we trooped down to find all drinks sold).
2. Vending machines didn't like the rough and tumble of rattling along at 90mph (consider how often even stationary machines jam).

And that's before we consider the potential liability issues of spraying hot water around on a moving train!

 

[ScotTrains]

Do any TOCs use onboard vending machines for snacks or drinks? That might be a reasonable compromise for lightly used services?

Some train companies (Virgin East and West, and soon Scotrail) have self service areas for 1st class customers onboard. The Virgin ones usually just have sparkling and still water. The new Scotrail ones are to have soft drinks and snacks I read somewhere.

Quite often the trolley, if there is one, doesn't even make it to the end of the train. Last week I travelled from Glasgow to Edinburgh and back a day later. Both times I entered 1st class beside the trolley but noticed they didn't even attempt to travel to 1st class at the opposite end. It really is a bit hit and miss what you get with Scotrail at the moment. The self service area will be welcome on their longer routes.

 

[Clansman]

Last week I travelled from Glasgow to Edinburgh and back a day later. Both times I entered 1st class beside the trolley but noticed they didn't even attempt to travel to 1st class at the opposite end. It really is a bit hit and miss what you get with Scotrail at the moment. The self service area will be welcome on their longer routes.

Not to mention that the single first class section on the 385s will no doubt see catering commencing from that point upon departure.

It's nice to see a TOC like Scotrail providing these things rather than axing them like in England - especially on routes which often need it more than the ones we currently see them on up here.

 

[anti-pacer]

It's all very well saying get rid of catering on trains, but if I travel on a long journey I like to be able to have a drink (soft and alcohol). If I bring my own and want to drink it cold, I have to do so fairly quickly. At least with a trolley service I can purchase a cold drink WHEN I want it. The journey from Glasgow to Mallaig being a good case in point.

 

[sarahj]

Some german IC trains have vending machines. There is a little area in a Bpmz coach called 'Snack Point'. Some local trains also have a small area with a vending machine and some seats.

TBH, on Southern, there was a feeling that when the OBS grade came in they might have been selling drinks. A tassimo machine in the catering cupboard would be fine for a little test.

When we did have catering on Southern I always felt they were never used well.

eg. Moving through the train just a few mins after departure from Victoria. The Arun valley ones being on the stoppers from Bognor, when they should have boarded the fast sections at Barnahm. They would have had a free run for the punters that had been on for over an hour from say Southampton, with a non stop of around 28 mins to Horsham. Instead, those folks coming the furthest only got the trolley after Horsham, and with many going to Gatwick and getting off about 15 mins later, not worth it. Never pushing the fact that first class punters got free tea/coffee/water. Many staff just flying through, no announcements. (I used to make some).

And will always be happy when a trolley helped once on a delay. Signal issues, delays and hanging round. Train full of punters going to the racing at Plumpton. They emptied the trolley, and then when another boarded at the Heath, emptied that one as well. Kept their spirits up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBH, on Southern, there was a feeling that when the OBS grade came in they might have been selling drinks. A tassimo machine in the catering cupboard would be fine for a little test.

The unions would love that, but as I said above I don't see a problem with the idea of a safety-critical member of staff selling refreshments as they check tickets, and if I were starting a service completely from scratch I wouldn't have driver, guard and buffet steward, I'd have something like the driver plus two or even three safety trained stewards who would handle boarding, potentially doors[1] and dispatch, and also refreshments and ticket checks/sales at the same time.

[1] Possibly by way of a hybrid model of theoretical DOO, but the stewards giving the OK before the driver closes up and departs.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Are there any byelaws preventing people selling their own surplus snacks/refreshments on to others in need ?

 

[sheff1]

Are there any byelaws preventing people selling their own surplus snacks/refreshments on to others in need ?

Yes. 7(2)(ii).

Not sure what you mean by "in need". If you mean,say, someone having a coughing fit where a drink or sweet might aid recovery then I would expect people to assist without demanding payment. Certainly I have many a time been offered, and sometimes accepted, a drink or snack by fellow travellers purely out of generosity not because I was in any "need". Maybe things are different on Thameslink.

 

[jimm]

Today only 1st class can get a dinner.

The new trains on order for the Plymouth and Cornwall route will not be very practical for dining. (2x5 coach units)

Don't let the facts get in the way, will you?

Unless all the dining seats have been taken by first class passengers, standard class passengers can get a meal on any GWR Pullman service.

Fourteen of the Class 802s on order for GWR are nine-coach single units. The odds are they will be carefully diagrammed to ensure they cover the Pullman services - the service simply wouldn't be viable if two chefs and two waiting teams were needed on each train.

 

[boxy321]

it's not only hot drinks but any bottles and what some consider 'bulky' or 'messy' food items. Which seems to be open to a very wide interpretation by some gateline crew (a hot dog with all the trimmings in one instance).

Also you are kind of restricted spacewise once on board - not as easy to lay out your snacks, plates, cups, microwaves, kettles etc cramped in to an airline seat as it is even in a train 'airline seat'

Has anyone tried a microwave on the charger sockets yet? I remember Loughborough University decades ago had a 2A cutout for each student room which took 15 mins to reset.

I'd love to do a BBQ on a Pendolino sometime.

 

[DarloRich]

whichever ones turn a profit???????????

 

[route101]

It's all very well saying get rid of catering on trains, but if I travel on a long journey I like to be able to have a drink (soft and alcohol). If I bring my own and want to drink it cold, I have to do so fairly quickly. At least with a trolley service I can purchase a cold drink WHEN I want it. The journey from Glasgow to Mallaig being a good case in point.

Cold drink from the trolley , always warm when i buy a drink from the trolley

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Has anyone tried a microwave on the charger sockets yet? I remember Loughborough University decades ago had a 2A cutout for each student room which took 15 mins to reset.

I'd love to do a BBQ on a Pendolino sometime.

The £4 kettle from Wilkos worked on a pendolino.
Kettle £4, china cups 25p x 2 milk 50p, tea bags (pack of 40) 65p, 2 litre bottle of water 30p -£5.95 total

A cup of tea for two at start of journey and another mid journey at £2 a pop - £8 total.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Yes. 7(2)(ii).
Maybe things are different on Thameslink.

[/I]

They have people 'selling' packs of tissues (admittedly not so often now though that was probably down to the poor sales)

 

[causton]

The £4 kettle from Wilkos worked on a pendolino.
Kettle £4, china cups 25p x 2 milk 50p, tea bags (pack of 40) 65p, 2 litre bottle of water 30p -£5.95 total

A cup of tea for two at start of journey and another mid journey at £2 a pop - £8 total.

Save money - the shop in coach C has milk portions, just use those - and boiling water from the sink can't be too bad - or can it?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Save money - the shop in coach C has milk portions, just use those - and boiling water from the sink can't be too bad - or can it?

Prefer 'proper' milk from moo-ing things as opposed to the irradiated nuclear UHT stuff and as for the sink water well now that the toilets no longer flush on to the track where does all that 'waste' water go.....

 

[MrCub]

"Burgers in Berkshire
Wine in Wiltshire
Coffee in Cornwall"

 

[sarahj]

Prefer 'proper' milk from moo-ing things as opposed to the irradiated nuclear UHT stuff and as for the sink water well now that the toilets no longer flush on to the track where does all that 'waste' water go.....

Never, never, I repeat never drink the stuff that comes out of the tap. There was a bit of a scare a few years ago that led me not to even wash my hands with the stuff that comes out the tap. Carry hand gel, and use it even if you wash your hands first with the 'water'.

:eek:

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never, never, I repeat never drink the stuff that comes out of the tap. There was a bit of a scare a few years ago that led me not to even wash my hands with the stuff that comes out the tap. Carry hand gel, and use it even if you wash your hands first with the 'water'.

:eek:

I'm not sure if I've ever actually managed to *get* anything out of the tap on a Southern train, they mostly seem to have broken sensors except the very new Electrostars which are sanctimonious in the extreme by forcing the use of soap even if all I'm doing is a quick rinse of hands without using the other part of the facility.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Cold drink from the trolley , always warm when i buy a drink from the trolley

The joy of catering trolleys is that by the end of a journey the tea and the beer are served at the same temperature.

 

[dk1]

The joy of catering trolleys is that by the end of a journey the tea and the beer are served at the same temperature.

Air Pots used in modern trolley catering are far better for holding water temperature.

 

[sarahj]

I'm not sure if I've ever actually managed to *get* anything out of the tap on a Southern train, they mostly seem to have broken sensors except the very new Electrostars which are sanctimonious in the extreme by forcing the use of soap even if all I'm doing is a quick rinse of hands without using the other part of the facility.

I find that they do work most of the time, you just have to affect the sensor right. As per most things on a train it's all very complex. You would think, sensor, little electric pump, but nahhhh, air pressure and lots of little pipes. As for the hand dryer, well they can get a bit too carried away...