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Ockley landslip

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Xenophon PCDGS

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I think they are going to try and implement single line running on Monday with trains being cautioned past the landslide

They must be fairly sure of the existing ground stability to attempt this measure. Has there been any official statement on this ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EDIT : Were there other landslips on this line that occurred after the first one ?
 
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yorksrob

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r.e. Capvermell post 27

I think quite a few of us on the forum feel that better use could be made of the Ockley line, from a capacity point of view to relieve the BML, if not for reasons of speed. For some reason though, today‘s railway management seems to be under the impression that every train from the coast must stop at Gatwick.
 

bigdelboy

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r.e. Capvermell post 27

I think quite a few of us on the forum feel that better use could be made of the Ockley line, from a capacity point of view to relieve the BML, if not for reasons of speed.

Essentially I agree. When I was young the 4cep from chi joining at barn to be 8cep+4bep used to take 1hr 42m stopping barnham-arundel-pulbough-billingshurst?-horsham-dorking-sutton-london-vic ....

For some reason though, today‘s railway management seems to be under the impression that every train from the coast must stop at Gatwick.
[/QUOTE]

Acutally from chichester/barnham the rush hours DON't stop at gatwick! .... which is actually the time i to help mobility restricted persons get there to/from flights needing changes at horsham (or horror or horrors) three bridges :cry: ... the rush hours dont stop at horsham either which didnt used to help me :cry: So if they don't stop at Gatwick there is less need for them to go that way.

Anyway if southern can send rush hour trains to guildford that can't Clandon perhaps SWT could do horsham. Mole Vally used to be a diversion route for portsmouth to waterloo when there was engineering on the portsmouth direct.
 

yorksrob

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Would the airport there have anything to do with that ?

I strongly suspect that it would do. I don‘t deny that the West Sussex coast needs a good service to the airport. Just that every London train needs to stop there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
bigdelboy said:
Acutally from chichester/barnham the rush hours DON't stop at gatwick! .... which is actually the time i to help mobility restricted persons get there to/from flights needing changes at horsham (or horror or horrors) three bridges :cry: ... the rush hours dont stop at horsham either which didnt used to help me :cry: So if they don't stop at Gatwick there is less need for them to go that way.

Anyway if southern can send rush hour trains to guildford that can't Clandon perhaps SWT could do horsham. Mole Vally used to be a diversion route for portsmouth to waterloo when there was engineering on the portsmouth direct.

So essentially we've got an RUS based on the premis that the Brighton mainline is almost at capacity, yet Southern are sending trains that way in the rush hour that don't need to use that route. Bizarre really.
 

sarahj

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Err, the trains are only missing out Gatwick, they are however stopping at Crawley, Three Bridges, sometimes Redhill and East Croydon, all very busy commuter stations. The only reason rush hour services miss out Gatwick is so not to fill certain rush hour services with extra Airport passengers, which, with all their bags can jam up a train and take up space. And this is just a few trains which miss out Gatwick. Stand at Gatwick during rush hour and plenty of trains still stop.
The BML main line may be busy, but its four track to three bridges, quite straight and with a 90/70 max. The route via Dorking is slower, lots of little stations etc
 

yorksrob

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Err, the trains are only missing out Gatwick, they are however stopping at Crawley, Three Bridges, sometimes Redhill and East Croydon, all very busy commuter stations. The only reason rush hour services miss out Gatwick is so not to fill certain rush hour services with extra Airport passengers, which, with all their bags can jam up a train and take up space. And this is just a few trains which miss out Gatwick. Stand at Gatwick during rush hour and plenty of trains still stop.
The BML main line may be busy, but its four track to three bridges, quite straight and with a 90/70 max. The route via Dorking is slower, lots of little stations etc

Surely then, if there‘s a capacity issue in the peak hour, the answer is to have a Barnham train going via Dorking so that there is more room on the train calling at Crawley, Three Bridges and Redhill ?

The Dorking line might be slower, but I doubt that much slower, given that trains don‘t need to stop at all the little stations, and the ones that do are few and far between anywau.
 

sarahj

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There is the problem of capacity on the Dorking line. TBH there was a worry before the landslip occured if the line was up to having all these extra trains running on it. I'm sure, perhaps it might make sense to run the odd train direct down there, but I just dont see it. If there was such a demand, then the trains south of Dorking would be packed, but most people going to Horsham etc take the faster trains via the main line. Plus you have to remember that there is quite a demand for trips from places like east croydon, redhill, three bridges, and Gatwick. Like I said, only a few trains, and I mean a few miss out gatwick during the rush hour, and again, like i said, thats mainly to stop busy trains being overun by passengers with lots of bags during a very busy time. Traffic service on the other line its really only Victoria and Clapham junction and then off down to Dorking. While London commuters might think that we runs trains just for them, we have to run where the demand is, and the demand is not just Victoria to Barnham, but also eg East Croydon to Horsham. There is just not the demand for more eg Dorking to Horsham-Barnahm services, and the slower, two track, line would stuggle to cope.

Of couse there is the saying, if you run it, they will come, but TBH we dont have the spare capacity on the line (or stock) to try it out.

On the other flip, even road connections in the area are not that great. The A24 is dual to Dorking,But slow, twisty, eg Box Hill, but between Dorking and Horsham is just whats known as a S2 (single C, two lanes) and a bit twisty and slow. Most traffic for Horham comes down the M23 and then heads south of Crawley along to Horsham where the A24 turns back to D2 (dual, 2 lanes) down to almost Worthing.
 

Chrisgr31

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It is, by a distance, the highest revenue generator south of the river (excluding London Terminii). With growth at the airport, arguably it needs more stops.

Not disagreeing in any way but on the National Lottery Show (Who Dares Wins) they had a question about the 20 busiest stations in the UK. Interestingly Gatwick wasn't on the list but Wimbledon and Stratford were. Have a slight suspicion the year the count might have been done was 2012.

ps I know Stratford is north of the river!
 
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andy19_64

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They must be fairly sure of the existing ground stability to attempt this measure. Has there been any official statement on this ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EDIT : Were there other landslips on this line that occurred after the first one ?

Looks like they are going to run two trains in the morning (monday) Horsham to Victoria and then three in the evening peak Victoria to Horsham.

Apparantly they have been running a few test trains Saturday and i know they run one the other day as well so all seems ok for single line working
 

user15681

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Looks like they are going to run two trains in the morning (monday) Horsham to Victoria and then three in the evening peak Victoria to Horsham.

Apparantly they have been running a few test trains Saturday and i know they run one the other day as well so all seems ok for single line working

I had heard that the plan was for two trains from Horsham to Victoria and also one from Victoria to Horsham in the morning.
 

Hophead

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Limited service confirmed.

From Southern's home page:
Monday 13th January 2014
Subject to preparatory work being completed, we plan to run a very limited train service between Horsham and Dorking during peak hours.​

The trains are:
06:01 & 07:01 ex Horsham
07:05, 17:20, 17:50, 19:20 ex Victoria

Open train times concurs and indicates 43 minutes from Horsham to Dorking.
 

bigdelboy

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The page at http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/limited-train-service-planned-between-horsham-and-dorking/ currently has link to Plan for the unexpected .....

110.jpg


Given the party atmosphere I am minded to believe that:-

  • Loco Toledo may be resurrected to entertain on the extended journey times.
  • SarahJ might be sent to Ashford to stay as far away from this as possible ;) ... if she was not kidnapped for test trains ;)
  • Network Rail can now probably get its MPV's from Horsham to Effingham Junction quicker ... this might help the de-icing ... though of course my view is they over-weedkillered the embankment weakening the surface skin and contributing to the de-stabilisation.
  • An MPV may be attached from Horsham to Dorking to be sure to be sure.
  • Remember to stock up at Horsham Buffet before travel

... More seriously it does look as if some effort, planning and thought has been applied .... good luck to travellers tomorrow ....
 

Capvermell

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The trains are:
06:01 & 07:01 ex Horsham
07:05, 17:20, 17:50, 19:20 ex Victoria

I don't understand why there aren't any northbound services at all in the evening peak hour period in this one line working. Also why does it make sense to run two northbound services in the morning peak but three southbound services in the evening peak.??

Also basically none of these trains will be running through the works site in normal daylight (the 7.01 might get just get a bit of slight early dawn light but certainly not full daylight as it passes through the works site) making it essentially pointless to get one of these trains to see what is going on as an interested local resident.

Also am I the only one to think that this move to trying out one track running through the embankment slippage site is a pre-cursor to an announcement that the repairs are now going to continue until at least April but that a single line service will be able to run in weekday peak hours in order to try to make up for this significantly lengthened repair time.

Also given the protracted period of works/closure shouldn't Network Rail now also be undertaking any other long overdue repair works to bridges or embankments on other parts of the line from Dorking to Horsham at the same time?

Regarding Sarah's comments on the road structures of the area the A24 between Capel Clarke's Green and Great Daux Roundabout North of Horsham and the whole 30 mile long A29 route from Beare Green roundabout on the A24 to its intersection with the A27 are lethal death trap sections of road throughout the peak hour period that should long ago have been dualled for that very reason. So a decent high speed through service between Dorking to Barnham and beyond could actually help to alleviate much of the current undesirable levels of traffic overcrowding on the A29 and A24 during weekday peak hours.

The real issue however seems to be the totally inadequate lack of capacity on the lines between Clapham Junction and Sutton in the peak hour. Presumably these need to be both radically re-engineered and or extra tracks layed in order to provide the required level of capacity to facilitate fast longer distance services to Ashtead, Leatherhead, Dorking, Horsham and Arun Valley?
 
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ChiefPlanner

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Probably the most underused 2 track electrified line in London and the South east - for the reasons given above.
 

B&W

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As a regular traveller on the MidSussex from the 70s I have been reading the posts on here about lack of speed and capacity via Dorking.

The original Pompey Mid-Sussex line via Sutton and Dorking coped with a quite high density of mixed speed trains with low acceleration, controlled by mostly manual signalling .

In my parents time after electrification the two tracks from Streatham to Sutton had 7/8 peak trains per hour, express and all stations. Off peak it was 4/5 per hour.
The shoulder peak hour trains took c1hr 34mins to get to Bognor in SR days although the fastest peak took just 1hr 27mins including dividing at Barnham from the PH portion.
Moving forward to the early 80s, the 1720 took 1hr 40min stopping at Sutton Dorking Horsham and all stations to Bognor except Christs Hospital.

People talking about the fact the Dorking route is full at peak hours should reflect that the Bognor peak hour trains still went via Dorking in the early 80s as we were told the BML was then too full of trains to take the peak service Bognor trains.
At that time Leatherhead - Dorking had to cope with 8 down trains an hour in the peak, today its just 5. The preceeding Horsham stopping trains were looped at Dorking for the Bognors to overtake giving excellent fast connections for users all over South West London.
The peak hour Dorking Horsham section thus had the half hourly Bognors, plus stoppers from Waterloo, Victoria and so 5 down trains in an hour on the section that now has the slip. Today over a 1hr 2 min period its just 3 trains according to the Goslower Govia website.

Does not really support the impressions some younger posters seem to have that the Dorking line is slower or could not take more trains today with a mixed stopping pattern.


Brian
 

Peter Mugridge

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The pinch point on the route these days is probably the Epsom to Leatherhead sector, 6tph off peak each way and only 4 down and 2 up of those do not involve a conflicting movement across the flat junction at Leatherhead.

There are an additional 2tph each way that terminate and start back from Epsom platform 1 plus a third that terminates in 1 and starts back from either 1 or 3, each of these 3tph requiring a shunt in and out of the sidings - the time consuming bit here is tipping them out on arrival at Epsom.
 

B&W

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Fair point about Epsom Leatherhead but the Guildford trains have to be added to the 8tph Dorkings that went down that section in the 80s. Timetable seemed to have some slack to for checks on that section as you often followed a Guildford stopper out of Epsom or caught up the train you were overtaking at Dorking at Leatherhead. Other congestion points were Sutton with the wall of death Wimbledon trains and Mitcham Junc.
Since the 80s the only changes seem to have been the transfer of the Signalling in the Leatherhead/Epsom areas to Wimbledon box and Holmwood Horsham to Three Bridges box. Have these reduced capacity?. At Epsom you could over take a looped train up and down and the Horsham terminators had to wait at Dorking for 7 mins for the Bognors to clear Holmwood.

The other thing todays trains should be better at I am told is acceleration up the gradients and from signal checks, the CIG/BIGs used to struggle to get much more than 65mph up the banks from Warnham to Ockey and Dorking to Holmwood.


Brian
 

Peter Mugridge

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There are, as far as I know, no looping opportunities any more. the through roads at Cheam no longer exist, so fast trains cannot pass stopping trains there which means the timetable needs to allow for the up fasts to leave Epsom ahead of / down fasts to arrive at Epsom behind the slows; then there is the tipping out allowance for the slows terminating at Epsom - got to get them in the sidings before the Victoria to Dorking / Horsham gets held up...

That's all got to fit in with allowing SWT's 4tph down out of Epsom at 15 minute intervals as well...

No looping possible at Epsom at all in the down direction; in the up direction you can make use of platforms 1 and 3 to get a fast round a slow but to do that with a down working is problematic - platform 3, I'm pretty sure, is not reversibly signalled. I'll have a look next time I'm at the station.
 

Capvermell

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In my parents time after electrification the two tracks from Streatham to Sutton had 7/8 peak trains per hour, express and all stations. Off peak it was 4/5 per hour.

The shoulder peak hour trains took c1hr 34mins to get to Bognor in SR days although the fastest peak took just 1hr 27mins including dividing at Barnham from the PH portion.

Moving forward to the early 80s, the 1720 took 1hr 40min stopping at Sutton Dorking Horsham and all stations to Bognor except Christs Hospital.
It is reported on Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorking_railway_station that the fastest ever service from Dorking to London Victoria was 34 minutes immediately following electrification of the entire Mid Sussex line in 1938. Things then probably did not change very much (although I expect that in the intervening period virtually all timetabling and line infrastructure improvements were focused only on services from London Victoria to Brighton via Redhill and Gatwick) until May 1978 when mid-Sussex electric services were re-routed via Gatwick Airport.

Certainly when I first became aware of services on the line when I considered moving to a part of Capel not far from Ockley station in 1991 (at which point the booking office at Ockley had already been closed for some years but not so far converted in to an office or house) the fastest off peak services from Ockley to London Victoria or vica versa took 51 minutes and the very slowest peak services took 60 minutes exactly. As the Ockley to Dorking part of the journey was historically always timetabled at 10 minutes this implies there was actually only a slow deterioration over 40 years in journey times from Dorking to London Victoria from a fastest possible journey of 34 minutes in 1938 to 41 minutes some 53 years later in 1991.

Even after initial privatisation and operation by Connex in the mid 1990s relatively little happened to worsen or further slow down journey times. It was only once the GOVIA group got its hands on services between Dorking and London Victoria twice an hour and Horsham and London Victoria hourly that journey times began to slow down and slide backwards hugely from one timetable to the next, largely because GOVIA was financially incentivised to go on increasing journey times to a point where all financial penalties for late running and/or cancellations were minimised. And whatever GOVIA wanted in terms of worsened minimum operating specification for the line they always seemed to get from the powers that be.

This means that over the 23 years since 1991 the fastest possible journey time from Dorking to London Victoria has increased from 41 minutes to 50 minutes but typical journey times for most passengers have slid even more than this as the fastest possible rush hour journey from Dorking to London is now 56 minutes to travel only 22 miles!

All of this seems to have come about because GOVIA/Southern's main focus on the lines out of London Victoria via Sutton seems to extend only as far as Sutton and possibly Epsom where they clearly aim to run the effective railway line equivalent of an underground train service with trains nearly full up with passengers stopping at all stations on the line to adequately handle capacity demands during the morning peak. Capacity only focused developments such as the creation of Mitcham Eastfields have also now managed to add another couple of minutes to many of the journeys on the line.

As far as I can see Southern's senior management (who I have taken the time and trouble to meet on several occasions up at their Meet The Manager sessions at London Victoria) are simply not at all interested in the needs of passengers travelling on the Mole Valley line corridor from Leatherhead and Dorking and also South of Dorking in to London Victoria and instead regard them as an inconvenient after thought to their main objective of running an Underground type stopping at all stations service out of Victoria via Sutton where their only main concern is train capacity and train frequency on the route with no thought at all to total journey times or any frequently repeated increases in those journey times over the years.

Even the rolling stock strategy is utterly confused with Southern services to Dorking and Horsham still served by a combination of the new Electrostars and the South London Metro type stock without any loos (whatever the train type numbers for those are) and some former Thameslink type rolling stock (the stuff with the very low ceilings near some of the ends of the carriages).

In my personal opinion if Southern's management were actually at all interested in or cared about the needs of their longer distance travellers from Leatherhead and Dorking and south of Dorking then it would be perfectly possible to create a train path for a once an hour Mole Valley line special probably stopping at all stations from Horsham through to Leatherhead but after that stopping only at Clapham Junction. However to do this might require both reintroducing the passing loops at Cheam (surely an utterly trivial capital cost in terms of total Network Rail investment and probably costing significantly less than the recent overbridge and lifts at Dorking Station) and also probably substantial efforts at re-timetabling the line from Sutton to Clapham Junction to clear the necessary hourly higher speed through path for this service.

When some of you talk about the issue of the embankments and maximum speeds that are possible on them by trains south of Dorking you surely have to be joking since as one used to the horrid slow crawl of a service now taking up to 79 minutes from Ockley to London Victoria (slowest journey time only 20 years ago 60 minutes) the only place on the line where the trains ever seem to travel over 50mph is actually south of Dorking or occasionally between Dorking and Leatherhead. Even then the trains only travel at any speed when they are running late after being held up in the London suburbs as Southern's timetabling is so ludicrously over cautious for the whole line that trains frequently arrive at stations on the southern parts of the line three or four minutes early and then have to wait for the timetable to catch up with them if they ever try to run at anything approaching maximum permitted speed (which some drivers still do just for the hell of it even though the slow as a snail timetable usually makes it pointless).

So in short services are in my opinion slow and snail like between Epsom and Horsham not due to any real physical constraints but simply because this section of line is completely forgotten about by Southern's management, who seem to be focused only on those stations and line sections in their network that handle the very largest volumes of passengers

EDIT:- It is interesting to note that it in fact always seems to have been possible for a train to cover the 36 or so railway miles from London to Horsham via Sutton and Dorking pretty quickly long ago if it made few or no stops and a path along the line was cleared in the timetable so that the train could run throughout at or close to its maximum speed.

For instance the 1905 LBSCR timetable available at www.lbscr.org.uk/timetables/index.htm shows that a Mondays only train at 10.57am from Horsham took only 53 minutes to cover the 36 or so railway miles involved travelling non stop to London Victoria. It is hard to speculate on the exact purpose of this non stop train from Horsham although given that Parliament in those days did not convene till the afternoon and then sat late in to the evening it is relatively easy to have visions of some kind of MP's special, depending on who exactly had influence on the Board of the railway company in those days. It is also interesting to note that some 109 years ago when simple early steam trains were still in use, the fastest possible journey time for a normal passenger service from my own local station of Ockley (29 railway miles from London Victoria) at 7.45pm on a Sunday evening was just 59 minutes, four minutes faster than any train today is now able to make the journey today with Southern's Electrostars!

In fact by the 1917 LSBCR timetable this journey time on Sunday evening at 7.45pm had now improved by one minute to 58 minutes. However by 1917 the MP's special from Horsham on Monday morning only at 10.57am had gone but been replaced by a now daily 10.59am train from Horsham to London Victoria making only 2 stops (at Sutton and Mitcham Junction) taking only 55 minutes compared to the previous non stop 53 minutes.

It is especially worth noting that in those days the journey from Sutton to London Victoria only took 16 minutes, even whilst stopping at Sutton and Mitcham along the way. As this train ran so much faster than all of the others it would be interesting to find out precisely what kind of Steam Express monster of the time it was pulled by. Regarding the very fast journey times (for those days) from Ockley on a Sunday evening (when far fewer trains would have been running given the then almost wholly religious observance focused nature of this day) this is probably also a comment on how much difference to journey times can be made by a timetable slot deliberately cleared to allow maximum speed running by a train. Of course 29 miles in 58 minutes with only two stops ought to have been a perfectly viable proposition at top speed, even with the much slower steam engines of the time that were then in use.
 
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OxtedL

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I don't understand why there aren't any northbound services at all in the evening peak hour period in this one line working. Also why does it make sense to run two northbound services in the morning peak but three southbound services in the evening peak.??
I'm getting the sense from this thread that a lot of the justification for running these services in the peak is that it enables trains to be taken in and out of service at Horsham where they normally would, rather than increasing pressure at Dorking.

In addition, running trains solely in one direction at any time ought to simplify arrangements for single line working (perhaps a signalling expert could comment), and indeed might be the only way that the services now being offered can be reliably run through at the intervals proposed.
 

Bald Rick

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It means you only need Single Line working in one direction, (when travelling wrong line). Therefore you only need a bloke (or bloke-ess) for one peak rather than two.

But I don't think that is the reason. It is more likely making a sensible timetable that would work and not compound delay through the day. And I should imagine you could fit all the commuters from the stations between Dorking and Horsham on 2 coaches of one of the trains.
 

Capvermell

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I'm getting the sense from this thread that a lot of the justification for running these services in the peak is that it enables trains to be taken in and out of service at Horsham where they normally would

However they aren't operating all of the additional rush hour half hourly special services (the ones outside the normal hourly frequency between Dorking and Horsham for the rest of the day) on the line so I don't think this is necessarily true. Also the extra services in the peak don't simply turn around at Horsham (as the normal hourly service to Horsham does during the rest of the day) but instead are turned round at Horsham to immediately run back up the Gatwick/Redhill line. But they do so at a time of day when capacity inbound to London is usually not an issue. However it may be that these particular trains that run back to London via Gatwick are then needed for services from Victoria back to Gatwick Brighton between 7pm and 8pm. Although I would have thought by then the peak was largely over for the day.

The way I see it is that what they have actually done is tried to identify which are the most important trains of the day in numbers terms to annual season ticket holders from Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham to Central London plus Horsham season ticket holders travelling to places like Leatherhead and Sutton and provide some kind of through train service for those who will be most severely disrupted by having to decant on to buses. It is also probably no coincidence that the passengers they are mainly helping are those that pay the largest fares bills to Southern each year.

Their other constraint in my opinion is that these services are also timetabled so that there is no train traffic through the embankment site between 8.30pm and 6pm when most of the personnel involved in the reconstruction are at work. If they were merely trying to keep all the busiest trains of the day going they would also want to run something equivalent to the 7.56am from Horsham Northbound and the 4.17pm and 4.47pm southbound services from London Victoria.

But firstly trains at those times are more heavily used by either children making their way to secondary school or people who work in local shops in Dorking and Leatherhead (all of whom have far lower annual fare bills to Southern) and secondly and more importantly running them at this time would cut in to the possible train free working day at the site on the Embankment. Since Pile Driving implies undertaking work that could actually make the Embankment unstable, if it goes wrong, as a worst case (but if it does it ought to be obvious within a short period of driving each pile) it clearly can't be going on while the trains are actually going through the site.

However with all that in mind it does seems surprising the 23.26 train from London Victoria isn't also being allowed to run on beyond Dorking. I can only presume that this is because allowing trains to run through the site may actually involve having supervising staff on duty at some of the nearby stations (eg Ockley and Warnham) and/or even on the works side of the Embankment and nobody actually wants to be hanging around for four hours to let a train with only 20 passengers on it south of Dorking run.

In addition, running trains solely in one direction at any time ought to simplify arrangements for single line working (perhaps a signalling expert could comment), and indeed might be the only way that the services now being offered can be reliably run through at the intervals proposed.

If that was actually true then surely they would have one way working only in the morning too instead of allowing both the 7.01 Horsham to London Victoria (reaching the Embankment works around 7.15am) and the 7.05am from London Victoria to Horsham (reaching the Embankment works around 8.15am) to run. Of course it probably does help that the 7.05am from London Victoria is the last movement through the works site until the 5.20pm from London Victoria and that the evening movements are all in the same direction as that last movement. Given the timings I would suspect that they are simply carrying out all train movements from Dorking to Horsham and back on the Down track except for the last bits in to Horsham and Dorking stations where existing points are probably already available to switch them back on to the right platform.
 

andy19_64

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The single line working from Horsham is quite complex.
First of all there is a network Rail Pilot Man that has to travel with the train. His first job is to brief the driver of what will happen on the journey, speeds, arriving, leaving platforms, going through the works etc.
The driver and pilot then have to liaise with the signaler to say they are ready to depart and when safe to do so the signaler has to set all the points from Platform 4 to the down line to Warnham. The signaler will then give permission to proceed past the signal at the end of P4 that is held at Red.
Once they depart it is 15mph across all points till they hit the Dorking line and then 50mph max until they get near to the works and then it becomes 20mph.
As you can imagine everything faces the wrong way so even the conductor struggles at times like if it is OK to depart the stations.

As for the line reopening no real news but have heard a couple of times it is looking like the end of feb.
 

Capvermell

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As you can imagine everything faces the wrong way so even the conductor struggles at times like if it is OK to depart the stations.

All of this is surely only true for the Up line workings from Horsham to Dorking (which is probably why they are not bothering with an Up working in the evening peak, when the train would be almost empty). A Down train merely takes a signalled journey as normal on the normal down track and has to go slightly slower when leaving Ockley station southbound than normal. And having watched the 19.20 from London Victoria train leave Ockley station last Thursday night (I could not see any pilot man on board with the driver and there was only the usual guard required due to the stations being unmanned) I can assure you it is only slightly slower than a normal train and not not, as I had expected. 5mph only for the first half mile or so. They even used a normal full 8 car Electrostar train set whereas they could easily have used a 4 car unit if worried in any way about the Embankment's structural strength.

Things would only be much more complicated if an Up and a Down train were to be running between Dorking and Horsham at the same time and the Up train had to cross on to the Down line for part of the journey just before and after Ockley station using points on route. This however is not the case. Instead the morning Up trains merely use the Down line for their entire journey between Horsham and Dorking as far as I am aware. Despite best intentions I have not so far actually caught one of these trains to find out what happens on a morning northbound journey from Horsham to Dorking due to the early time of day and a not inconsiderable peak hour return fare from Horsham to Dorking of £13.20! In fact if I want to do the journey my best bet is actually to buy a peak hour Southern Daysave ticket as Horsham to Dorking alone return is a complete and utter ripoff.

As for the line reopening no real news but have heard a couple of times it is looking like the end of feb.

They certainly appear to be working all the hours they possibly can and have men living on site in temporary cabins in the former goods yard (they either have residual rights to use this in an emergency or alternatively must have struck a deal with local landowner Normal Marshall who in fact now owns this land).

At the end of the day the actual landslip that occurred was not very serious but clearly revealed major weaknesses at this point in the embankment that, if not tackled, could see the whole structure come crashing down. The landslip is also very close to a probably 147 year old bridge structure over Coles Lane. As this (B2126) is an important cross country local road route they clearly want to stop the whole embankment slipping to such an extent that it also starts to pull the bridge with it so forcing them to have to also close the road and rebuild the whole bridge structure at much greater cost over probably many more months.

One point that I personally find intriguing is exactly how a very high embankment like this was built in the first place in Victorian times and what exactly is there structure wise to have kept most of it in situ over the intervening nearly 150 years. On this embankment at Ockley I suppose the construction techniques would have been something similar to those shown in the below picture.

IM.0366_es.jpg
 
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tsr

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Subject to some possible minor alterations & short-formations, and any unrelated weather disruptions, both lines through Ockley should be fully open to traffic tomorrow, as repairs are complete. :)
 
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