NR 'Secretive' Tree Felling

[driver_m]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...k-in-secretive-network-rail-felling-programme

Millions of trees are at risk in a secretive nationwide felling operation launched by Network Rail to end the nuisance of leaves and branches falling on the line.

The company has used drones to create an aerial map of its 40,000 hectares of railway and identified “hotspots” where mature trees might cause a problem at an unspecified time in the future. Engineers are operating in a targeted felling programme...

The timing has caused increased outrage because it is taking place during nesting season – between March and August – despite promises by Network Rail that no felling would take place when birds are nesting....

Story in the guardian basically reporting that that NR is chopping a lot of trees on its routes to combat leaf fall. Lots of concerned comments as you can guess Must admit I'm shocked at how much they've already got rid of, but having seen how badly they let them overgrow in the first place, they had to do something. Not exactly secretive though, look out of any train window and you must surely see the action. Now if only they could be as hot on graffiti.

 

[Bromley boy]

Typical reactionary nonsense.

No doubt the people moaning about the tree felling are the first to complain when their train is delayed in leaf fall season.

 

[theironroad]

It seems the article is also being claimed as an 'exclusive' for the Guardian. Wow, secret nuclear weapons programmes have nothing on tree felling.

That aside, while I hope active nests are not being disturbed, these trees should never have been allowed to grow so much as they have and a widespread felling is needed for the operational railway.

Not only does leave fall cause significant delays every year, the leaf clearing (railhead treatment program) costs millions a year. Additionally, the damage caused to wheel sets by 'flats' during leaf fall is expensive to repair and requires trains to be withdrawn from service and other services are then short formed.

Add to this a fallen tree or branch can write off the front end of the train and potentially the driver as well, then I'm happy for this tree felling.

Visually, in some routes the vast numbers of trees on railway property prevents observation of some marvellous scenic views.

Pretty much all trees within the railway boundary should be removed. Railways are not primarily 'wildlfe corridors' but infrastructure to allow trains to run.

When they finish with the trees, maybe they could start shifting the rusting hulks of rolling stock dotted around the country, the other scrap metal left lineside and the shrubbery that grows out of bridges, viaducts, stations etc

 

[driver_m]

Yes the buddeleia..that's one thing that should also be a priority to be getting rid of. Coming out of bridges and viaducts all over the place. Going to cause serious issues in the future if it isn't sorted quickly.

 

[Bromley boy]

maybe they could start shifting the rusting hulks of rolling stock dotted around the country,

I’m not sure getting rid of all the trains will do much to improve the service...

 

[InOban]

Am I right in thinking that the trees only date back to the end of steam?

 

[theironroad]

I’m not sure getting rid of all the trains will do much to improve the service...

Well the punctuality and reliability stats would be 100% against the revised timetable. I bet passengers still wouldn't be happy when the stats were 100% across the board month after month

 

[theironroad]

Am I right in thinking that the trees only date back to the end of steam?

I'm not sure whether there were trees within the boundary during steam, but certainly vegetation management was far stricter die to stray sparks having the potential to start massive lineside fires. However, I also understand that rather than a regional set of men and women who visit places periodically, each part of the line had a dedicated gang of men responsible for all types of regular maintenance.

I believe most of the tree cutting and vegetation management is now contracted out by Network rail to specialists.

 

[DarloRich]

Not only does leave fall cause significant delays every year, the leaf clearing (railhead treatment program) costs millions a year. Additionally, the damage caused to wheel sets by 'flats' during leaf fall is expensive to repair and requires trains to be withdrawn from service and other services are then short formed.

And those services are still going to have to run even if every tree within the railway boundary is chopped down.

I'm not sure whether there were trees within the boundary during steam, but certainly vegetation management was far stricter die to stray sparks having the potential to start massive lineside fires. However, I also understand that rather than a regional set of men and women who visit places periodically, each part of the line had a dedicated gang of men responsible for all types of regular maintenance.

Sadly budgets, safety rules, operational challenges and political moptivations are not the same as in 1952

When they finish with the trees, maybe they could start shifting the rusting hulks of rolling stock dotted around the country, the other scrap metal left lineside and the shrubbery that grows out of bridges, viaducts, stations etc

Who do they belong to?

Am I right in thinking that the trees only date back to the end of steam?

i am fairly certain tress have existed for millennia

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Yes the buddeleia..that's one thing that should also be a priority to be getting rid of. Coming out of bridges and viaducts all over the place. Going to cause serious issues in the future if it isn't sorted quickly.

...and while they are at it.....the Himalayan Balsom

 

[kevconnor]

There is sometimes observations made on the forum about the instability of embankments which can be created with the removal of trees or other vegetation. Is anyone able to offer any insight into if these ever come into conflict or if it is a case of cutting back but not cutting down.

 

[nr758123]

So secretive hereabouts that Network Rail sent letters and postcards out to residents near the tracks, inviting them to drop-in sessions which were well-attended.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you own trees on your land and they are not subject to a TPO you can fell them if you want. Nobody else gets to object (or if they do you can ignore them). Simple as that.

 

[yorkie]

There is sometimes observations made on the forum about the instability of embankments which can be created with the removal of trees or other vegetation. Is anyone able to offer any insight into if these ever come into conflict or if it is a case of cutting back but not cutting down.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...mprove-their-views.160026/page-4#post-3311137

....Railway cuttings and embankments are engineered structures, not part of 'nature', and have to be maintained, to retain their structural integrity. In nature, trees perform a valuable role in soil stabilisation. On railway cuttings and embankments they do the opposite..

In nature, trees help maintain soil stability. On 'engineered' (built) railway formations they do they opposite.. with 'undesirable outcomes' for those entrusted with operating and maintaining the railway.. (see also contributions from Steptoe and Hellzapoppin).
See also the massive amount of clearance and remediation work being currently undertaken by Network Rail on similar structures a short distance from this location..

Some years ago one of the civil engineers explained to me why trees weren’t ideal things to have in cuttings or on embankments. He said that although the roots do stabilise the ground to some extent those same roots draw up large amounts of water but this is in the spring and summer when the ground would normally be dry, and water is in short supply, this can cause issues with voiding. In the winter when water is in good supply and the ground may be waterlogged the trees are dormant and don’t drink so leading to possible bank slips. I’m not a civil engineer so not sure it this is correct but certainly sounds plausible.

 

[thejuggler]

Many trees are merely large weeds. Railway trees in particular are largely self seeded. Aboutbthree years agi they were all chopped alongside my local railway, the sycamores are now all back.

I'd rather they concentrate on knotweed, which is a real problem.

 

[w0033944]

Typical reactionary nonsense.

No doubt the people moaning about the tree felling are the first to complain when their train is delayed in leaf fall season.

Indeed. I norally agree with the Grauniad on most things, but they're making it seem as though maintenance of railway land is a new concept.

 

[theironroad]

Indeed. I norally agree with the Grauniad on most things, but they're making it seem as though maintenance of railway land is a new concept.

With all that's going on in the world, this story was the Guardian's lead story online for most of this afternoon, though it seems to have slipped slightly now.

 

[HSTEd]

The problem is that people like the railways having large numbers of trees along them.

Network Rail definitely has the right to cut them down, but that does not mean that cutting them down is a good idea.

I am skeptical if this operation will actually make a substantial difference to leaf fall related issues, and it generates a lot of bad press for the railway - it also makes noise complaints from people near lines worse - and yes they were likely there after the railway moved in, but that doesn't mean the railway can do whatever the hell it wants and not face the consequences.

In a world where the railway is dependent on public support to survive, it should consider all actions through the lens of appearances.

 

[peri]

I would have thought that by now there would be found a suitable evergreen ground cover bush
that would hold the soil and suppress any competitors including trees to use on any trackside cuttings.
Is there anywhere in the country or in other countries where this has been used? But definitely no cutting
down for the next month or two as this is the breeding season for nearly all British birds.

 

[DarloRich]

...and while they are at it.....the Himalayan Balsom

I'd rather they concentrate on knotweed, which is a real problem.

Are both Japaenese Knotweed & Himalayan balsam not reportable and subject to special handling and disposal regimes?

The problem is that people like the railways having large numbers of trees along them.

Network Rail definitely has the right to cut them down, but that does not mean that cutting them down is a good idea.

I am skeptical if this operation will actually make a substantial difference to leaf fall related issues, and it generates a lot of bad press for the railway - it also makes noise complaints from people near lines worse - and yes they were likely there after the railway moved in, but that doesn't mean the railway can do whatever the hell it wants and not face the consequences.

In a world where the railway is dependent on public support to survive, it should consider all actions through the lens of appearances.

And when the focus and money is on something else they will grow back pdq.

 

[td97]

I would have thought that by now there would be found a suitable evergreen ground cover bush

Conifers? These were supposed to be planted after some de-verging caused complaints on a part of the Bolton-Preston route during electrification works.

 

[Kneedown]

I hope active nests are not being disturbed

That was my first thought. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to disturb nesting birds.
I think that previously, felling and cutting back was carried out outside the nesting season. I hope that proper wildlife surveys are being carried out prior to Spring or Summer felling/pruning.

 

[james60059]

Typical reactionary nonsense.

No doubt the people moaning about the tree felling are the first to complain when their train is delayed in leaf fall season.

I said that on the Daily Mail comment page, as they ran a similar article, got an e-mail from them saying they had received a "number of reports" about it......

 

[RPM]

The problem is that people like the railways having large numbers of trees along them.

Network Rail definitely has the right to cut them down, but that does not mean that cutting them down is a good idea.

I am skeptical if this operation will actually make a substantial difference to leaf fall related issues, and it generates a lot of bad press for the railway - it also makes noise complaints from people near lines worse - and yes they were likely there after the railway moved in, but that doesn't mean the railway can do whatever the hell it wants and not face the consequences.

In a world where the railway is dependent on public support to survive, it should consider all actions through the lens of appearances.

I agree with your general point about the public relations angle, but I can tell you from experience, removing lineside vegetation makes an enormous difference to adhesion issues.

 

[DarloRich]

I agree with your general point about the public relations angle, but I can tell you from experience, removing lineside vegetation makes an enormous difference to adhesion issues.

it does - however it doesn't negate the need for the RHTT to run.

 

[underbank]

If you own trees on your land and they are not subject to a TPO you can fell them if you want. Nobody else gets to object (or if they do you can ignore them). Simple as that.

And even if there are subject to a TPO you can trim them within certain parameters and can apply for permission for harsher trimming or even felling. Far too many people allow trees to go dangerously wild on the incorrect assumption that they can't do anything because of a TPO.

 

[Altfish]

I would have thought that by now there would be found a suitable evergreen ground cover bush
that would hold the soil and suppress any competitors including trees to use on any trackside cuttings.
Is there anywhere in the country or in other countries where this has been used? But definitely no cutting
down for the next month or two as this is the breeding season for nearly all British birds.

You have hit on the area of concern I had, trees should not be disturbed during the nesting season.

 

[Steptoe]

Just caught up with this thread and would add that as ash trees seem to prefer a railway environment the reason for the present campaign might be to fell these before they fully succumb to ash dieback disease.

On the preserved railway I am involved with the risk of these dead and dying trees falling across the line outweighs any considerations regarding the nesting season (and in any case sensible birds are unlikely to nest in trees where the foliage appears unhealthy)

 

[DarloRich]

Just caught up with this thread and would add that as ash trees seem to prefer a railway environment the reason for the present campaign might be to fell these before they fully succumb to ash dieback disease.

barely a consideration

On the preserved railway I am involved with the risk of these dead and dying trees falling across the line outweighs any considerations regarding the nesting season (and in any case sensible birds are unlikely to nest in trees where the foliage appears unhealthy)

Your preserved railway might be breaking the law.

 

[Bromley boy]

Your preserved railway might be breaking the law.

I’m pretty sure it’s perfectly legal to cut trees down, even during nesting season, so long as said trees are checked for nests first.