Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Mitch in Notts]

edit - might have been the Y29? Are you in Gloria's patch or are you further west?

Gloria only covers Eastwood (which is in Broxtowe Borough but Ashfield constituency). We are in Anna Soubrey (Broxtowe Borough & constituency) & MPs aren't really that interested - it's all commercial decisions.

One thing I will say in the North of Broxtowe Borough the County Council now only fund two bus routes - the L33 & Amberline. Funding for the 331 ends at the end of October. In the last few years they have pulled all funding from Eastwood Local Services & evening & Sunday services have vanished on the Black Cat, 27, Rainbow 1 Alfreton section as well as the 331, and of course the Q.M.C. service.
We seem to be the forgotten corner when it comes to council funding.
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Fascinating stuff, I never realised these things changed hands so much!! .

It's these things changing so much that causes the loss of passengers. People aren't told of changes until after they happen. Or they hear a service being withdrawn when it isn't. There needs to be some long term commitment towards a comprehensive stable bus network to encourage long term growth. Something that is being achieved on the rail network.

 

[radamfi]

There needs to be some long term commitment towards a comprehensive stable bus network to encourage long term growth.

There's only one way to achieve that, but obviously that's not on the table.

 

[kevjs]

There needs to be some long term commitment towards a comprehensive stable bus network to encourage long term growth. Something that is being achieved on the rail network.

And this is the reason people like Trams (for better or worse) - if a decent bus service starts and you could conceivably switch from the car to it you either have to shell out twice (once for the bus and once for the car) or sell the car, alas by the time enough people have done the latter the bus company has already pulled it meaning people move back to the car, but once a route has been pulled people make alternative arrangements quickly and won't switch back (and temporary heavy discounting does no favours either - Trent Barton I'm looking at you - cut the Red Arrow costs during the Nottingham Blockade, provide a decent enough service which easily undercuts the train price wise and isn't too uncompetitive end-to-end time wise, then once the Blockage has been lifted starting to run a more unreliable service then jacking up the price by 1/3 is not the way to keep customers - I know at least two of your recent converts have switched back to the train for those reasons!)

 

[Mugby]

Trent Barton I'm looking at you - cut the Red Arrow costs during the Nottingham Blockade, provide a decent enough service which easily undercuts the train price wise and isn't too uncompetitive end-to-end time wise, then once the Blockage has been lifted starting to run a more unreliable service then jacking up the price by 1/3 is not the way to keep customers - I know at least two of your recent converts have switched back to the train for those reasons!)

Couldn't agree more. Standard fares on the Red Arrow are ridiculously expensive for a half hour journey but TB know it's a cash cow and they know many people will pay it.

 

[CallySleeper]

Couldn't agree more. Standard fares on the Red Arrow are ridiculously expensive for a half hour journey but TB know it's a cash cow and they know many people will pay it.

Wouldn't say it was just the RA!

 

[nathanclass323]

Wouldn't say it was just the RA!

The Allestree is another one for ridiculous fares as well. It seems the big ones and the ones which see the most patronage from students that have the highest fares. I'm glad I use a Mango card.

 

[overthewater]

That could be the reason to make people switch over to the cards.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Suspect you're right

 

[harry42]

Slightly off topic but...

Can anyone tell me where Strelley Lane is and any pictures of this bus/the operating company?

1953 bus:
E1
Nottingham - Strelley Lane via Wollaton Square

http://www.heanorhistory.org.uk/trolleybusandbusroutes.htm

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Strelley Lane is Strelley Village junction with Bilborough Road. My 1972 Midland General timetable shows the section running as peak periods only. They ran from Mount Street to Wollaton Square, Cockington Road, Bilbrough Road to Strelley Lane.

Left Nottingham(M-F only) at 0735, 0805, 1555, 1705, returning 21minutes later. Journey time 18 minutes!

All other E1 journeys went to Balloon Wood Flats from Cockington Road - bit like Yourbus Y28 is doing now.

 

[harry42]

Strelley Lane is Strelley Village junction with Bilborough Road. My 1972 Midland General timetable shows the section running as peak periods only. They ran from Mount Street to Wollaton Square, Cockington Road, Bilbrough Road to Strelley Lane.

Left Nottingham(M-F only) at 0735, 0805, 1555, 1705, returning 21minutes later. Journey time 18 minutes!

All other E1 journeys went to Balloon Wood Flats from Cockington Road - bit like Yourbus Y28 is doing now.

Cheers for that, can't see strelley village getting a bus route now!

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Cheers for that, can't see strelley village getting a bus route now!

No and it is even further away from bus stops now!
Nottingham City Transport route 30 to Strelley Village was suspended in 1939 due to the war & never reinstated.
Their used to be a bus stop on the Strelley Lane junction for the Barton 32 but the stop vanished when the new road (Woodhouse Way) was put in. The current services (L33 & W4) don't stop anywhere near the junction.

 

[harry42]

No and it is even further away from bus stops now!
Nottingham City Transport route 30 to Strelley Village was suspended in 1939 due to the war & never reinstated.
Their used to be a bus stop on the Strelley Lane junction for the Barton 32 but the stop vanished when the new road (Woodhouse Way) was put in. The current services (L33 & W4) don't stop anywhere near the junction.

(W3 ) Shame really. The broad oak pub there attracts many on a Sunday especially!

NCT route 30 now runs to Balloon Woods and stops, is this the same bus that used to run up?

 

[Deerfold]

(W3 ) Shame really. The broad oak pub there attracts many on a Sunday especially!

NCT route 30 now runs to Balloon Woods and stops, is this the same bus that used to run up?

The current 30 is a fairly recent invention (late 90s?). When I was a local (92-96) it only appeared as a special to Wollaton Park for events there.

The 28 was every 5 minutes back then though.

 

[harry42]

The current 30 is a fairly recent invention (late 90s?). When I was a local (92-96) it only appeared as a special to Wollaton Park for events there.

The 28 was every 5 minutes back then though.

Ahh ok. What bus served Wollaton west then? ie Wollaton park on regular days?

Maybe this thread should be renamed: Nottingham bus discussion?

 

[Deerfold]

Ahh ok. What bus served Wollaton west then? ie Wollaton park on regular days?

Maybe this thread should be renamed: Nottingham bus discussion?

NCT didn't with any normal services. I covered the ground on one of their buses which started at the roundabout where Jubilee Campus is now (which was the Raleigh Factory back then) on a bus to Boots (NCT used to run 20 or 30 direct buses from various areas around Nottingham which each ran 1-4 times a day). I was transferring there onto another bus which turned out to be the same one! I'll see if I can find one of my early 90s NCT timetable booklets.

 

[harry42]

NCT didn't with any normal services. I covered the ground on one of their buses which started at the roundabout where Jubilee Campus is now (which was the Raleigh Factory back then) on a bus to Boots (NCT used to run 20 or 30 direct buses from various areas around Nottingham which each ran 1-4 times a day). I was transferring there onto another bus which turned out to be the same one! I'll see if I can find one of my early 90s NCT timetable booklets.

Thanks
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Yourbus now have vacancies for trainee AND qualified drivers...

 

[tbone]

Thanks
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Yourbus now have vacancies for trainee AND qualified drivers...

Have done for some time now. They've got a dart converted for driver training.

They've struggled in the past for drivers I believe, on a few occasions, I've seen management driving national express routes.

 

[harry42]

Have done for some time now. They've got a dart converted for driver training.

They've struggled in the past for drivers I believe, on a few occasions, I've seen management driving national express routes.

Ahh ok!

 

[winston270twm]

Posted on the Yourbus Yahoo group was the following:

Dual door Citaro's 3501-06 are all being currently re-commissioned for traffic.

Yet more new buses due for 2014

I'm assuming Yourbus are planning to introduce yet more new routes in competition with Trent Barton using the dual door Merc Citaros & further new buses? Anyone heard anything?

 

[CallySleeper]

Where are they getting the money?!

 

[winston270twm]

Where are they getting the money?!

Exactly!

According to this article, Yourbus have invested £14 Million in the fleet in 18 months, the average age of the fleet is just 3.1 years

http://www.nottinghampost.com/East-...ach-operator/story-19906872-detail/story.html

Although Yourbus make reasonable profit margins, I don't think they cover that level of investment & the rapid expansion that we've seen......

 

[MCR247]

Hence why many people are wondering which company is funding YourBus...

 

[winston270twm]

Hence why many people are wondering which company is funding YourBus...

There's nothing showing in their accounts to 28th March 2013 as you'd expect....

 

[harry42]

I think Yourbus are a good company, but nobody knows where they get the money from!

Didn't realise they got a national express award!
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Does anyone know a full route list of Yourbus national express operaitons?

 

[CallySleeper]

A couple of suggestions, how much did Veolia buy Dunn-Line for?

Also, are they getting any surplus funding from National Express?

 

[Robertj21a]

Hence why many people are wondering which company is funding YourBus...

Why assume it is a *company*.......

Robert

 

[starrymarkb]

They have links to Rotola I believe.

 

[winston270twm]

A couple of suggestions, how much did Veolia buy Dunn-Line for?

Also, are they getting any surplus funding from National Express?

Dunn-Line was sold to Veolia for £9.7 million of which the Dunn family owned 66.5% after floating part of the company on AIM. That would have netted them
£6.450 Million. Not sure if Veolia took of any debt from Dunn-line

http://www.investegate.co.uk/article.aspx?id=200603080705014613Z

Bob & Simon Dunn have since acquired a 4.53% stake in Rotala Plc. Bob runs Preston Bus whilst Simon is CEO of Rotala group. Scott was MD of Diamond bus for while during which time setting up Yourbus, but has since left Diamond & Rotala to concentrate on Yourbus.

Not sure on NX, Yourbus did quickly become the largest subcontractor to NX in a short space of time with 55 NX liveried vehicles, 43 of which were brought new. I can only assume this was won via competitive tendering for contracts?
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They have links to Rotola I believe.

Scott & Simon Dunn have both confirmed separately that Rotala has no involvement in Yourbus, other than the obvious family link of being brothers. I very much doubt Rotala could finance Yourbus any way, their fleet profiles are miles apart.
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Why assume it is a *company*.......

Robert

What are your suggesting as an alternative?

Debt financing?

 

[MCR247]

Why assume it is a *company*.......

Robert

I've not seen any evidence to suggest otherwise...