Nottingham 'Bus War'

[WillPS]

They're also giving up the 33 to Nottingham Community Transport after a grand total of 5 months.

There's something fishy about all that if you ask me. I can't put my finger on what they might have been trying to achieve - but it isn't really a route you'd expect NCT to do under normal circumstances.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

There's something fishy about all that if you ask me. I can't put my finger on what they might have been trying to achieve - but it isn't really a route you'd expect NCT to do under normal circumstances.

As a user of the 33 I'm not surprised. Average loadings are about 1! I believe the county council worked with NCT to provide a minimum subsidy route. It obviously hasn't met NCTs expectations. The main reason is that the residents of the two estates it is provided for would want a through service to Nottingham. This only runs to the QMC. It should have been linked with the NCT 37 to provide a through service. It is also highly unreliable. Tuesday it was running 20minutes late at 13:35 despite the lack of passengers and more than adequate running time.
Be interesting to see what Community Transport make of it.

 

[Jordy]

Hmm. £3 single. Am I right in thinking that it is less than what Premiere charged?

As far as I remember Premiere charged £3.50 single, so yes. Pretty sure the return is the same price though. Interestingly I've noticed some very healthy loadings on the 9 since Kinch took over, it was often reasonably busy with Premiere but I've seen some nearly full buses arriving into Notts recently!

 

[alesi85]

A selection of Premiere's coaches and buses have been put up for auction on the John Pye website, an auction house which specialises in Bankrupt & Repossessed items.

http://www.johnpye.co.uk/buses/

 

[WillPS]

I didn't realise they owned anything. Didn't they have a handful of ex-Brighton Tridents at one stage? Were the rest leased?

 

[trentside]

I didn't realise they owned anything. Didn't they have a handful of ex-Brighton Tridents at one stage? Were the rest leased?

The majority of their vehicles were leased from Dawson Rentals, but there were a few that were directly owned, the ex-B&H Tridents and the ex-Rotala Gemini spring to mind. I think they also owned their ex-Veolia vehicles.

 

[tbone]

Quite a few coaches ended up with the Stafford bus centre and a number of vehicles went to Silverdale.

The ex Rotala Gemini is now with yourbus for continued Uni hopper work.

 

[MCR247]

NCT has ordered 40 Scania ADL E400s. NCT now has 73 new buses for this year (well 63 excluding the E200s that have just arrived)

 

[CallySleeper]

Can't be definite on this and didn't get a registration but there was an old white bus which I'm fairly sure was an ex-Prem conked out on this side of the A42 (north) this afternoon

 

[radamfi]

Is Citylink doing better now?

 

[tbone]

Is Citylink doing better now?

Not from what I've seen.

There's a rumour that yourbus will be taking off a couple of buses resulting in no layover time from next week.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Stood in Derby and out of 4 arrivals, only 2 passengers on board in total

 

[Jordeh]

Does anyone understand what's occurring with the X38?

It's currently every 15 minutes with 2bph from Arriva and 2 bph from Trent Barton.

From 29th April it's going to be every 20 minutes due to supposed difficulties in maintaining the frequency? It's always struck me as fairly popular and timekeeping isn't bad. Will it still be split between TB and Arriva or have Arriva pulled the plug entirely and TB will now run the route on its own? (hopefully!).

 

[Deerfold]

Does anyone understand what's occurring with the X38?

It's currently every 15 minutes with 2bph from Arriva and 2 bph from Trent Barton.

From 29th April it's going to be every 20 minutes due to supposed difficulties in maintaining the frequency? It's always struck me as fairly popular and timekeeping isn't bad. Will it still be split between TB and Arriva or have Arriva pulled the plug entirely and TB will now run the route on its own? (hopefully!).

Looks like an every 20 minutes service will need still 4 buses to run - but presumably more reliably, with an extra 5 minutes timetabled in each direction. I'm guessing two each with services alternating. I'm sure the new timetable will be updated to confirm who runs what soon - does mean if using Mango etc people will have to have really good memories or carry a timetable to check who runs which.

 

[tbone]

Does anyone understand what's occurring with the X38?

It's currently every 15 minutes with 2bph from Arriva and 2 bph from Trent Barton.

From 29th April it's going to be every 20 minutes due to supposed difficulties in maintaining the frequency? It's always struck me as fairly popular and timekeeping isn't bad. Will it still be split between TB and Arriva or have Arriva pulled the plug entirely and TB will now run the route on its own? (hopefully!).

It is remaining a joint service, in fact Arriva have three pulsars on order for it. It will run so there will be two Trent services followed by two Arriva ones as present.

 

[ARedFlyer]

Yes Citylink are still doing poorly by the looks of things, even with a £4.50 return. I caught it the other week and it was a fine, smooth journey. But I never see anymore than 3-4 people on it. Shame. TB went on an aggressive promotion campaign before their launch as if to say "oh no you're not having this one from us" and it's looked to have worked. It seems people will pay extra for having a coffee table on their bus :roll:

However TB are ****ing a lot of people off at the moment with stuff like this:-

trentbarton ‏@trentbartonlive 5h
keyworth connection 4.25pm, 5.25pm and 6.25pm out of Nottingham and return are not operating I'm afraid. Sorry for the inconvenience.

They are doing it left, right and centre with lots of their services. What are they playing at? Are they short of drivers/buses or something?

 

[martinsh]

However TB are ****ing a lot of people off at the moment with stuff like this:-

trentbarton ‏@trentbartonlive 5h
keyworth connection 4.25pm, 5.25pm and 6.25pm out of Nottingham and return are not operating I'm afraid. Sorry for the inconvenience.

They are doing it left, right and centre with lots of their services. What are they playing at? Are they short of drivers/buses or something?

Extra drivers for the Red Arrow ??

Drove Derby - Nottingham via A52 today, and BOTH Citylink and Red Arrow appeared to be running almost empty !

 

[tbone]

I think almost all operators cancel journeys from time to time, Trent have now decided to let people know about it which is pretty noble of them because as you say it looks bad on them.

There is also a vehicle shortage due to Wellglade suddenly having a PVR increase of 7 when Premiere collapsed, 4 of these from Nottingham and they only got given one extra bus, because other depots are short too. There was also an extra bus on Indigo yesterday because tram works brought Beeston to a standstill, some 15 minute journeys taking an hour.

There are no extra buses or drivers on the Red Arrow. The Red Arrow is run by trent drivers from Derby whereas the above services are run by Barton drivers from Nottingham. They get payed different amounts per hour so it's unlikely they'd send them across.

Red Arrow has quiet journeys but in the evenings when Red Arrow is full, citylink remains very quiet.

 

[Deerfold]

Yes Citylink are still doing poorly by the looks of things, even with a £4.50 return. I caught it the other week and it was a fine, smooth journey. But I never see anymore than 3-4 people on it. Shame. TB went on an aggressive promotion campaign before their launch as if to say "oh no you're not having this one from us" and it's looked to have worked.

And who can blame them? They've built this up from the hourly R1 / Transpeak with last buses around 9pm when I lived in Nottingham to every 10 minutes and late night weekend services.

It seems people will pay extra for having a coffee table on their bus :roll:

Or want to support the operator they like and trust. Or are travelling further and it works out cheaper.

However TB are ****ing a lot of people off at the moment with stuff like this:-

trentbarton ‏@trentbartonlive 5h
keyworth connection 4.25pm, 5.25pm and 6.25pm out of Nottingham and return are not operating I'm afraid. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Do you have any evidence for the "lot of people"?. Always annoying when a bus misses but better when a company tells you about problems rather than it just not turning up - this is presumably a missing bus or driver as it's the same one would run all these journeys. And at least it's not on a very infrequent route.

 

[tbone]

Quite a few of the cancelations have been where buses have broken down at the opposite end of the route to their depot, for example, a Red Arrow braking down in Chesterfield or a Nines in Derby. Often the following bus would arrive quicker than a replacement so they cancel the journey instead.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Quite a few of the cancellations have been where buses have broken down at the opposite end of the route to their depot, for example, a Red Arrow braking down in Chesterfield or a Nines in Derby. Often the following bus would arrive quicker than a replacement so they cancel the journey instead.

But surely it would be simpler to borrow a bus from Nottingham, Derby or Sutton? I have experienced a Rainbow 1 arriving in Nottingham with the operators licence missing. The journey was therefore cancelled as the 'driver' had to take the bus back to Langley Mill. Couldn't a bus have been 'borrowed' from Nottingham depot and alternative arrangements made to return the bus to L Mill?
The simple answer is NO. The company had no spare buses prior to the collapse of Premiere and is now desperately short. They have no backup facilities whatsoever.

 

[tbone]

But surely it would be simpler to borrow a bus from Nottingham, Derby or Sutton? I have experienced a Rainbow 1 arriving in Nottingham with the operators licence missing. The journey was therefore cancelled as the 'driver' had to take the bus back to Langley Mill. Couldn't a bus have been 'borrowed' from Nottingham depot and alternative arrangements made to return the bus to L Mill?
The simple answer is NO. The company had no spare buses prior to the collapse of Premiere and is now desperately short. They have no backup facilities whatsoever.

Premere's collapse was very sudden, the 7 buses had to go into service within a couple of days. This came at a bad time as Trent had finished the fleet renewal programme for that year, with most buses having been sold and as such there were no buses sitting around.

Things should start to get better soon, a second centro is due for Nottingham and two excels and a solo have arrived at Sutton which may displace a solar for somewhere else.

Buses do from time to time swap depots for the day, Nottingham solo 442 was on the Rainbow 1 a few days ago, but when all depots are short this isn't often possible.

 

[Ginga]

PB1086799/36 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Derby, Riverlights Bus Station
Finish Point: Beeston, Bus Station
Via:
Service Number: Y5
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 14-JUL-2013
Other Details: Daily.

 

[ARedFlyer]

Beeston strange place to have a terminus. Who is going to want to travel there? Do we did yet another via Long Eaton service? :roll:

Speaking of which due to an accident near the QMC island the Skylink sent a few of their buses back from the Airport straight down the A453 this evening

A blast from the past for Clifton residents. Not sure what those waiting in Castle Donnington, Sawley would have thought of it!

 

[edwin_m]

I agree terminating in Beeston seems a little strange. However if it follows the Indigo route few people would use it between the centres of Nottingham and Derby as other routes are much faster including Yourbus's own Citylink.

 

[Deerfold]

I wonder if they'll do through fares onto the Y36 for anyone wanting to go further than Beeston (presumably not from Derby...)

 

[tbone]

I think that there are a number of possibilities:

1) There will be connections. through tickets on the Y36 to Nottingham, otherwise they'd be competing with themselves
2) The Nottingham to Beeston leg will be registered seperately (apparently they did a similar thing with the Y28)
3) The Y5/Y36 will interwork so that connections are available on the same bus

Of course it may well be that Yourbus will target the Beeston to Long Eaton and Long Eaton to Derby corridors which have not recently been contested.

Yourbus' other issue will be sourcing vehicles. As far as I'm aware, all the ex. Tuxford stock is sold or for sale so I can't see that being used. Buying yet more vehicles would be a gamble. I've heard a suggestion that as citylink has a timetable change at the same point and citylink will see a reduced frequency with displaced vehicles heading to the Y5 but that could be the final nail in the coffin for citylink which from my experience still isn't carrying that many.

Of course matching Trent's frequency along the route is perhaps out of the question; they run every 6 or 7 minutes and for 24 hours between Beeston and Long Eaton. Red5 was perhaps only successful because it took a different route, the route now taken by skylink. A final issue is space at the already full Derby bus station, there aren't many free bays around and Trent have proven that they are reluctant to move established services at both Victoria and Derby, the black cat and 141 both depart from citylink bays despite services from other operators moving when it started.

 

[MCR247]

I've heard a suggestion that as citylink has a timetable change at the same point and citylink will see a reduced frequency with displaced vehicles heading to the Y5 .

PB1086799/34 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Derby, Riverlights Bus Station and Nottingham, Victoria Bus Station given service number CITYLINK effective from 14-Jul-2013. To amend Timetable.

 

[Mugby]

What a time to reduce the Citylink timetable, a week before the Nottingham Blockade, just when they may have picked up quite a few more passengers!

 

[CallySleeper]

PB1086799/34 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Derby, Riverlights Bus Station and Nottingham, Victoria Bus Station given service number CITYLINK effective from 14-Jul-2013. To amend Timetable.

Happy days. Possibly the biggest positive of this is it will hopefully free up much-needed space at both Derby and Viccy bus stations.