Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[158757]

I think CETs were done with PRM...?
Can someone back me up on that?

No they weren't, as superkev says the Angel 150s were not fitted hence them going to Crewe practically every weekend at the moment. 158's were done under Serco Abellio, I would presume the 156's did get them done when they were PRM'd as not only were they started on earlier, I've never seen any go back for it. I understand 155's are fitted and the electric fleet was fitted from new anyway so apart from 142/144/153 which aren't staying I would presume there are just a few 150's left to do, although it's been a while since I saw one without tanks now.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It's not as though Northern are running that many trains at the moment compared to under normal circumstances. I think social distancing in depots may be the reason why more sets cannot be done at the same time (notwithstanding the fact that some depot staff may still be isolating or on furlough). I'm sure passing Newton Heath, Neville Hill, Allerton or Heaton would still reveal parked trains even on weekdays and with Northern attempting to strengthen many services.

Say what you like about Northern but their Monday to Saturday service pre-COVID-19 had actually gotten to a more-than-usable level. Just a pity a few too many services were booked 2-car (although numbers of these had been dwindling albeit very slowly, and would have dwindled further had the 769s entered service on time).

 

[yorksrob]

Looking back to the pre-covid days, I don't recall there being many instances of train lengthening - but this was on the East side. I think the withdrawal of 144's would have been having an effect on this.

On the subject of refurbishments, I caught a completely unrefurbished 158 this week, which was very pleasant. It seemed in good nick interior wise as well.

 

[OTRail]

Looking back to the pre-covid days, I don't recall there being many instances of train lengthening - but this was on the East side. I think the withdrawal of 144's would have been having an effect on this.

On the subject of refurbishments, I caught a completely unrefurbished 158 this week, which was very pleasant. It seemed in good nick interior wise as well.

Replacing the original seats with the fainsas was not one of Northern’s best plans...

 

[py_megapixel]

Replacing the original seats with the fainsas was not one of Northern’s best plans...

Still, "one of Northern's best plans" isn't saying much!

 

[yorksrob]

Replacing the original seats with the fainsas was not one of Northern’s best plans...

It would have been a better idea on some of the 150's.

 

[4REP]

End doors on Pacers, like most things on them, was never an ideal state of affairs.

But anyway... for a 156 I take your point, but for a 158 and particularly a 175, those dwell times would be massive! The doors are tiny and the vestibules are huge.

It would probably be ideal to use and cascade 156 and 170s when they become available to replace 150s in future particularly the 150/1 they can now only come from EMR or Scotrail. Now there are 43 scotrail sets and 24 EMR sets which equals 67 sets. There are or going to be 83 northern 150/1/2 sets.so 67 could be replaced which leaves 16 left to replace which could come from any further 170s which scotrail could release if they decide to replace them. Possibly by future 220 - 222 cascades.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It would probably be ideal to use and cascade 156 and 170s when they become available to replace 150s in future particularly the 150/1 they can now only come from EMR or Scotrail. Now there are 43 scotrail sets and 24 EMR sets which equals 67 sets. There are or going to be 83 northern 150/1/2 sets.so 67 could be replaced which leaves 16 left to replace which could come from any further 170s which scotrail could release if they decide to replace them. Possibly by future 220 - 222 cascades.

Pairs of 170s on the Buxton line would be amazing!

 

[py_megapixel]

Pairs of 170s on the Buxton line would be amazing!

Performance of 170s on routes with frequent stops isn't great. Sprinters are much better in that respect.
So you'd have a more comfortable, but slightly longer, journey.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Performance of 170s on routes with frequent stops isn't great. Sprinters are much better in that respect.
So you'd have a more comfortable, but slightly longer, journey.

The scenery is so nice I wouldn't particularly care if I were trundling along at 30!

 

[Greybeard33]

It would probably be ideal to use and cascade 156 and 170s when they become available to replace 150s in future particularly the 150/1 they can now only come from EMR or Scotrail. Now there are 43 scotrail sets and 24 EMR sets which equals 67 sets. There are or going to be 83 northern 150/1/2 sets.so 67 could be replaced which leaves 16 left to replace which could come from any further 170s which scotrail could release if they decide to replace them. Possibly by future 220 - 222 cascades.

No way should 156s be used to replace 150s on suburban commuter routes. With their narrow end doors and cramped vestibules, station dwell times would be dire.

A suitable 150 replacement would have doors at thirds and much quicker acceleration, e.g. the 195. Keep the 156s on the longer distance rural routes, like the Tyne Valley and Cumbrian Coast.

 

[Paul_10]

Also why would you withdraw 150s for more 156s given they are only marginally younger and then what would you replace the 156s?

I believe with the PRM works and the fact these trains are leased until 2025 I believe, they will not be going until at least then. Im sure the ROSCOs willl also want to get at least another 7 to 10 years out of them which would seem about right. It will be interesting when the time comes how the TOCS plan to replace the 80s trains. I doo suspect the 158s will remain into the 2030s though and why not, perfectly solid units which are younger than the others.

 

[py_megapixel]

. I doo suspect the 158s will remain into the 2030s though and why not, perfectly solid units which are younger than the others.

I'd expect the same for the 323s, which are a bit younger than the 158s and are known nowadays for being well built reliable units with decent acceleration. I also hear they're well liked by drivers and excellent for the busy comnuter services where they operate so why get rid of them.

 

[yorksrob]

Also why would you withdraw 150s for more 156s given they are only marginally younger and then what would you replace the 156s?

I believe with the PRM works and the fact these trains are leased until 2025 I believe, they will not be going until at least then. Im sure the ROSCOs willl also want to get at least another 7 to 10 years out of them which would seem about right. It will be interesting when the time comes how the TOCS plan to replace the 80s trains. I doo suspect the 158s will remain into the 2030s though and why not, perfectly solid units which are younger than the others.

Because 156's are pleasent trains to travel in, whereas the 150's are less so.

 

[4REP]

Because 156's are pleasent trains to travel in, whereas the 150's are less so.

I would agree with that. The 150(only northern units) are out dated with the type of seating and the 3+2 arrangement.

 

[yorksrob]

I would agree with that. The 150(only northern units) are out dated with the type of seating and the 3+2 arrangement.

Indeed. GW have some 150's that have been well refurbished.

 

[fodphil]

Hi
Any body got an idea what the Northern 170 on Central Rivers is?
Thanks in advance

 

[py_megapixel]

Because 156's are pleasent trains to travel in, whereas the 150's are less so.

I wouldn't exactly describe the 156 as "pleasant" - it's more the lesser evil in my opinion.

What the 150 really needs is firstly new seats, and secondly (and I don't know how easy this is) to be made quieter. Either by the fitment of more modern engines or my introduction of some form of sound proofing.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn't exactly describe the 156 as "pleasant" - it's more the lesser evil in my opinion.

What the 150 really needs is firstly new seats, and secondly (and I don't know how easy this is) to be made quieter. Either by the fitment of more modern engines or my introduction of some form of sound proofing.

I must admit, I disagree.

Credit where it's due, I think that old Northern had got their 156's to a really good standard.

 

[jonesy3001]

Schedules for 25/07 Moves

Allerton

Realtime Trains - 568I 0906 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Allerton Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 588I 1317 Allerton Depot to Wolverton Centre Sidings

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Neville Hill

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0829 Loughborough Brush to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Newton Heath

Realtime Trains - 572I 1014 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Newton Heath T.M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 574I 1052 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Newton Heath T.M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 589I 1325 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 570I 1003 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Newton Heath T.M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 591I 1404 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also possible move ex Doncaster to NH or NL

Looks like the wolverton to allerton run is a non runner.

 

[superkev]

Looks like the wolverton to allerton run is a non runner.

The second booked working at 10.52 from Crewe to NH has left. The the first one at 10.14 not having run.

Realtime Trains - 574I 1052 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Newton Heath T.M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Neither of the 2 booked Wolverton to Allerton and Newton heath have run.
Strange how Northern regularly book so many paths then not use them.
K

 

[3973EXL]

Allerton - Wolverton waiting to leave

 

[jonesy3001]

Allerton - Wolverton waiting to leave

223,224 or 237, wolverton to allerton run cancelled.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is Wolverton to Allerton running tomorrow instead? That was the case a couple of weeks ago.

 

[JakeMurphy]

The 323 off to Wolverton is 323237

 

[CHAPS2034]

The second booked working at 10.52 from Crewe to NH has left. The the first one at 10.14 not having run.

1052 working reported as 150126 at Wilmslow by a reliable poster on on another board

Meanwhile this 1325 Newton Heath - Crewe CS move

Realtime Trains - 589I 1325 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

is reported at Wilmslow as 150002 in GWR green colours

Note no headcode or TOC given for this one.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Headcode is 5B42

 

[JakeMurphy]

5Z25 the Second Newton Heath - Crewe down as 150204

 

[Jamesrob637]

The 323 off to Wolverton is 323237

Running via Belgium by the looks of things. Maybe the one back to Allerton was cancelled due to lack of slots on the diversionary route.

 

[py_megapixel]

Running via Belgium by the looks of things. Maybe the one back to Allerton was cancelled due to lack of slots on the diversionary route.

Is this some rail enthusiast jargon with which I'm unfamiliar....? Surely they can't be sending 323s to the continent because paths aren't available to Allerton?