Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[superkev]

In no particular order expect these units to move this weekend
323225 Wolverton to Allerton
158752 Holbeck to Neville Hill (friday)
170458 Central Rivers to Neville Hill
150126 Crewe to Newton Heath
150201 Crewe to Newton Heath
150268 Doncaster to Neville Hill or Newton Heath

I wonder what 170 458 was doing at central rivers depot. Presumably this is the working.

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0829 Loughborough Brush to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D

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K

 

[Adam0984]

I wonder what 170 458 was doing at central rivers depot. Presumably this is the working.

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0829 Loughborough Brush to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

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K

Been for some shiny new wheels

 

[OTRail]

Neither of those are remotely sensible to replace 150s because of the end doors, and in any case the 175s wouldn't fit into the fleet for multiple working purposes.

The extra 158s might be welcome as a capacity boost though (but I don't believe EMR are getting rid of theirs are they?)

The reason I suggested the 175s was so that they could work alongside the 195s on connect routes, and the displaced 158s could replace the older sprinters through internal cascading.

 

[py_megapixel]

The reason I suggested the 175s was so that they could work alongside the 195s on connect routes, and the displaced 158s could replace the older sprinters through internal cascading.

OK... though given the overcrowding on NT services at the moment I wouldn't want to see them getting rid of any DMUs at the moment, unless they were replacing the whole fleet with new-builds.

Though, that said, there are a lot of 158s coming off-lease soon. I would like to see something like the 175s taking over the 158 "Northern Connect" operations (if there's enough of them) and then 158s going into the main Northern fleet, possibly displacing 156s if there's too many.

 

[AMD]

I imagine at this point the 319s won't get any more stages of the refurb done given they won't be around for more than a year or two now; they're all PRMed and CETed meaning they are fully legal to run without dispensation so there's probably little point in them being sent in for new moquette or "digital train mods"

Correct, there was an internal announcement early last week stating that all the 15x fleet and 170 will be changed to new moquette and that the 319s would not be changing as they are going off lease "in the near future". Before anyone asks, there was no mention of the new trains in this.

 

[py_megapixel]

Correct, there was an internal announcement early last week stating that all the 15x fleet and 170 will be changed to new moquette and that the 319s would not be changing as they are going off lease "in the near future".

Gosh, I hope that doesn't mean they'll be going off lease before the extra 323s arrive; that would be problematic.

Any mention of whether the 323s are going for Wi-fi and USB?

 

[AMD]

Any mention of whether the 323s are going for Wi-fi and USB?

Yes, but like the rest of the programme that's another phase!

 

[py_megapixel]

Yes, but like the rest of the programme that's another phase!

It must be awfully confusing for the people managing this. At some point during the programme there have been at least some stock in each of these states:

• Completely unrefurbished
• PRM and CET mods but no other changes
• Northern livery, PRM and CET mods but no other changes
• Northern livery, PRM and CET mods, and interior respray, but original seat coverings
• Full Northern branding, PRM and CET mods, but no wifi/USB/CCTV
• Full refurbishment including wifi, USB, additional PIS screens and CCTV

Add this to all of the oddities such as TrainFX being stroppy especially when paired with a non-fitted unit, the single unit without a toilet, the ones with "prototype refurbishments" in Arriva colours, and the fact that different ROSCOs seem to be doing them to very marginally different specs, and this must be a nightmare to organise.

 

[Roast Veg]

Nothing a nice big spreadsheet can't handle, and somebody employed to keep it up to date.

 

[Gordonman]

It is only confusing because they themselves have made it confusing.The whole refurbishment programme must be costing an absolute fortune with most units being stopped for refurbishment several times over at different locations.Never mind the cost of downtime for the units as well.Personally I have never known anything like this before on the railway.Much simpler to put the overhaul work out to tender and go to the supplier with the best bid for the work required.All this for a 'bog basic' outcome!!

 

[Gaz55]

Are all their refurbished fleet going to get wifi? Like other posts have stated, it doesn't seem to make much sense, either operationally or financially, to have the refurbs done in different stages and with no clear timeframe on when every unit will be fully up to spec.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Are all their refurbished fleet going to get wifi?

According to Northern themselves, yes. I can guess the reasoning behind doing them at different stages comes down to the fact it was probably decided on after the refurbs were in full swing.

 

[py_megapixel]

According to Northern themselves, yes. I can guess the reasoning behind doing them at different stages comes down to the fact it was probably decided on after the refurbs were in full swing.

Well it shouldn't have been. Wi-fi on all trains was something they promised right back at the start of the franchise!

 

[Neptune]

The staged refurbishment was planned from the day Arriva took over in 2016. PRM was the priority (obviously) followed by tarting up the interiors followed by electronic niceities.

 

[OTRail]

Seeing as 10 EMR 153s are being transferred to Northern, are the 153s now due for refurbishment? Or is the transfer a temporary stop-gap?

 

[Surreyman]

It must be awfully confusing for the people managing this. At some point during the programme there have been at least some stock in each of these states:

• Completely unrefurbished
• PRM and CET mods but no other changes
• Northern livery, PRM and CET mods but no other changes
• Northern livery, PRM and CET mods, and interior respray, but original seat coverings
• Full Northern branding, PRM and CET mods, but no wifi/USB/CCTV
• Full refurbishment including wifi, USB, additional PIS screens and CCTV

Add this to all of the oddities such as TrainFX being stroppy especially when paired with a non-fitted unit, the single unit without a toilet, the ones with "prototype refurbishments" in Arriva colours, and the fact that different ROSCOs seem to be doing them to very marginally different specs, and this must be a nightmare to organise.

Is it safe to assume that 'If it's Refurbished, it will have been fitted with a CET tank'?

 

[_toommm_]

Seeing as 10 EMR 153s are being transferred to Northern, are the 153s now due for refurbishment? Or is the transfer a temporary stop-gap?

I think it was said on here they're not being transferred to Northern, it's just that the EMR 153s are being used in conjunction with the Northern ones so they need to be covered by Northern's derogation to use them.

 

[py_megapixel]

Is it safe to assume that 'If it's Refurbished, it will have been fitted with a CET tank'?

I think CETs were done with PRM...?
Can someone back me up on that?

 

[3973EXL]

Schedules for 25/07 Moves

Allerton

Realtime Trains - 568I 0906 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Allerton Depot

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www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 588I 1317 Allerton Depot to Wolverton Centre Sidings

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Neville Hill

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0829 Loughborough Brush to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D

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Newton Heath

Realtime Trains - 572I 1014 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Newton Heath T.M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 574I 1052 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Newton Heath T.M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 589I 1325 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 570I 1003 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Newton Heath T.M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 591I 1404 Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also possible move ex Doncaster to NH or NL

 

[43096]

Seeing as 10 EMR 153s are being transferred to Northern, are the 153s now due for refurbishment? Or is the transfer a temporary stop-gap?

Are they? What 10 vehicles is that?

 

[superkev]

Is it safe to assume that 'If it's Refurbished, it will have been fitted with a CET tank'?

Apparently at least the angel trains 150 units where not fitted with CET tank with the PRM bathroom hence the units passing between NH and Crewe for the last few weekends. Seems to take around 1 week per unit
I'm sure someone somewhere has a list so the night staff can direct units to the appropriate disposal area as appropriate.
K

 

[OTRail]

Are they? What 10 vehicles is that?

It was announced a while ago - 10 of EMR’s off lease 153s are to replace 8 of Northern’s existing 153s apparently.

 

[OTRail]

I think it was said on here they're not being transferred to Northern, it's just that the EMR 153s are being used in conjunction with the Northern ones so they need to be covered by Northern's derogation to use them.

Ok no worries, thanks.

 

[4REP]

Are those Northern 153s in worst condition than the others?

 

[4REP]

Neither of those are remotely sensible to replace 150s because of the end doors, and in any case the 175s wouldn't fit into the fleet for multiple working purposes.

The extra 158s might be welcome as a capacity boost though (but I don't believe EMR are getting rid of theirs are they?)

Your forgetting that pacers have end doors and are being replaced by end door sprinters. It won't matter if 150s get replaced by 156/8/75s as long as its like for like replacement and not a shortage of rolling stock and still a train service running.
Passengers are probably not bothered about where the doors are as long as there is a door to board the service

 

[Halish Railway]

Are those Northern 153s in worst condition than the others?

No - I believe it’s so that Northern will only have 153s that are leased from Angel trains. Nothern have 8 153s from Porterbrook and are handing back 8 and in turn receiving 10 153s from EMR, all of which are owned by Angel trains.

 

[py_megapixel]

Your forgetting that pacers have end doors and are being replaced by end door sprinters. It won't matter if 150s get replaced by 156/8/75s as long as its like for like replacement and not a shortage of rolling stock and still a train service running.
Passengers are probably not bothered about where the doors are as long as there is a door to board the service

End doors on Pacers, like most things on them, was never an ideal state of affairs.

But anyway... for a 156 I take your point, but for a 158 and particularly a 175, those dwell times would be massive! The doors are tiny and the vestibules are huge.

 

[43096]

No - I believe it’s so that Northern will only have 153s that are leased from Angel trains. Nothern have 8 153s from Porterbrook and are handing back 8 and in turn receiving 10 153s from EMR, all of which are owned by Angel trains.

Are they? What’s the evidence for this?

 

[Halish Railway]

Are they? What’s the evidence for this?

It’s an assumption. A quick look on 507021’s unofficial Northern fleet list shows that Northern have 8 153s and a Angel Train’s website’s shows that they own EMR’s 153s.

A similar strategy was used in the naughties when FGW swapped around some 158s with another TOC so that all of there 158s were owned by the same ROSCO - If someone could elaborate on this, that’d be useful.

 

[43096]

It’s an assumption. A quick look on 507021’s unofficial Northern fleet list shows that Northern have 8 153s and a Angel Train’s website’s shows that they own EMR’s 153s.

A similar strategy was used in the naughties when FGW swapped around some 158s with another TOC so that all of there 158s were owned by the same ROSCO - If someone could elaborate on this, that’d be useful.

So no evidence and just a guess. I do wish people wouldn’t post things they guess at as if they were fact.