Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[Bovverboy]

Bovverboy said: ↑
Talking of 319458, I travelled on it tonight on the 1720 LIV-MCV, the unit off which would normally (M/F) lurk in the reversing siding until becoming the lead unit on the 2209 MCV-LIV.Tonight it looks to have gone back to LIV as the 1900 ex-MCV, in place of the unit off the 1740 LIV-MCV, which has been cancelled. So the 2209, unusually, should tonight be a single unit. (Probably, 319458).

22:09 not running at all, no driver, whole diagram (17:40 Man Vic, 18:57 Huddersfield, 20:15 Man Vic) all uncovered.

Quite, I discovered the 2209 wasn't running when I turned up at Victoria wanting to catch it. Had I known the 1740 ex-Liverpool and 2209 ex-Vic were on the same duty I might well have been able to predict the course of events.
Slight credit to Northern, they did put a replacement coach on, but this fact was only apparent on the screens at Victoria. At gone 2200 RTT was still saying the 2209 train was running as scheduled, and, as far as I'm aware, the 2209 coach never appeared online at all. There was a girl waiting at Eccles who hadn't known anything about the coach so there were presumably no announcements, or, at least, no meaningful ones. It may be that the only passengers who saw any benefit from the coach were the ones travelling from Victoria, which is often the case in the situation of last-minute coach substitutions. I think the only reason a coach was put on at 2209 was the fact that the 2309 was already cancelled, by virtue of routine improvement works.
Another journey which apparently missed was the 2122 Lime Street to Victoria.
So the casualty list for the evening has been:
1740 Lime Street - Victoria (Train crew issue)
2122 Lime Street - Victoria (Planning error!)
2209 Victoria - Lime Street (Train crew issue)
2309 Victoria - Lime Street (Pre-planned cancellation - improvement works)
2320 Lime Street - Victoria (Pre-planned cancellation - improvement works)
After 2109 the only train which seems to have successfully departed its originating point has been the 2220 Lime Street to Victoria, even that left Liverpool 13L and dropped off tracking altogether at Newton-le-Willows. So I've no idea what happened to it after that.

458 will remain in situ in the reverser at Victoria now.

If the 2220 ex-Liverpool made it to Victoria, then there will be the usual number of units in the reversing siding (two), if not there will be a deficiency for service in the morning.

Q: Is the duty starting 1740 Lime Street to Victoria always staffed by a Liverpool crew, or is it only so when the last two trains of the day are pre-planned cancellations?

 

[Bovverboy]

Further to the above, tracking seems to have gone off the air nationally from c.2307 last night, for over an hour. So the likelihood is that the 2220 Lime Street to Victoria completed its journey as scheduled - well, other than being c.13L, of course.

 

[Loop & Link]

Q: Is the duty starting 1740 Lime Street to Victoria always staffed by a Liverpool crew, or is it only so when the last two trains of the day are pre-planned cancellations?

It is yes, it’s a Liverpool driver (Wigan conductor) who then goes to Huddersfield & back then does the 22:09.

22:20 was late as the Manchester Victoria conductor was stuck at Preston due to the earlier trespass incident.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bovverboy]

It is yes, it’s a Liverpool driver (Wigan conductor) who then goes to Huddersfield & back then does the 22:09.

22:20 was late as the Manchester Victoria conductor was stuck at Preston due to the earlier trespass incident.

Hope this helps.

Yes, it does, thanks.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Travelled in a refurbished 150 today on Preston-Salford (sorry did not note the number).
Seemingly new seats just like the old ones, but with 2-tone blue covers.
As far as I could see it had an identical 2+3 layout to the old spec (ie no more kneeroom), and repainted inside and out.
The internal doors still keep flapping open as they always did.
New PIS, but like the 156 I was on recently, all it seems to be able to do is scroll the destination ad infinitum (when there's no need to scroll!).
There's a limit to how many times you can take "Hazel Grove" coming round.

 

[palmersears]

Are the two 150/1s that came up on Saturday being thrust in to service straight away?

 

[978wta]

hope this helps,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/614419401958668/?ref=group_header

Thanks

 

[IanXC]

Quite, I discovered the 2209 wasn't running when I turned up at Victoria wanting to catch it. Had I known the 1740 ex-Liverpool and 2209 ex-Vic were on the same duty I might well have been able to predict the course of events.
Slight credit to Northern, they did put a replacement coach on, but this fact was only apparent on the screens at Victoria. At gone 2200 RTT was still saying the 2209 train was running as scheduled, and, as far as I'm aware, the 2209 coach never appeared online at all. There was a girl waiting at Eccles who hadn't known anything about the coach so there were presumably no announcements, or, at least, no meaningful ones. It may be that the only passengers who saw any benefit from the coach were the ones travelling from Victoria, which is often the case in the situation of last-minute coach substitutions.

We're going rather off-topic here, but for reference if it was showing on the screens at Victoria it was almost certainly showing on National Rail Enquiries. On the day planned buses never appear on RTT, and RTT displays TRUST data - its not there for journey planning like this, and so cancellations are often not input in a timely fashion.

 

[Starmill]

At gone 2200 RTT was still saying the 2209 train was running as scheduled

Network Rail data is frequently a very poor source of information during disruption. You will frequently find services which have skipped stops, been terminated short or been cancelled throughout not showing up in this way on Realtime Trains.

Instead it's better to check with National Rail Enquiries, or journeycheck.com/northernrail

 

[jonesy3001]

whats going on with this thread, supposed to be about northern refurbishments and its all been about so far is a 319 that got delayed in Liverpool, i live in Malta, miss the trains back home and wonder whats being cascaded,whats next for refurbishment/repaint and follow this thread day in, day out and its all gone to pot.

 

[507 001]

Realistically how far are we from the first Pacer withdrawals?

 

[simon7929]

The 144s are due to be returned to their leasing company first on a progressive type return, with 142s to follow a month later following the same pattern. Think kick off starts around September time. Hopefully all Pacers will be no longer in use by the December 2019 timetable change. That's the plan anyway!

 

[notlob.divad]

Realistically how far are we from the first Pacer withdrawals?

The 144s are due to be returned to their leasing company first on a progressive type return, with 142s to follow a month later following the same pattern. Think kick off starts around September time. Hopefully all Pacers will be no longer in use by the December 2019 timetable change. That's the plan anyway!

I think it will very much depend upon the progress of refurbishment, particularly the PRM modifications. They may have to keep some of the planned earlier release Pacers on for a bit longer in order to send more sprinter units away for refurbishment at the same time. From 507021's list, including those currently away undergoing modifications. Classes 156, 155 and and 150/2 are nearing 50% completion however 150/1 is only about 25% completion. The 3 car 158s are nearly done 85% (but there are only 8), the 2 car 158s are only at 30ish%.

So we are approaching 2 years into the franchise and with respect to the Diesel Fleet, we are not yet at 50% of the way through the PRM compliance modifications. Granted the program was always going to be back end loaded due to the units freed up by Manchester-Preston Electrification, but the further delays to that are only increasing the pressure on the PRM refurbishment program. I will be very surprised if significant numbers of Pacers start leaving the North before the end of this year, given the information currently available. That is not to say the people behind the scenes have not got a cunning plan that is not yet public knowledge.

 

[Malay States]

150123 in FGW colours was on the Blackpool South shuttles today.

 

[jonesy3001]

Are 104 and 106 in service yet?

 

[507021]

I think it will very much depend upon the progress of refurbishment, particularly the PRM modifications.

I have the following diesel units as PRM compliant, excluding ones in works at the moment.

Class 150/1: 8/39
Class 150/2: 10/28
Class 155: 2/7
Class 156: 22/42
Class 158/0 (2-car): 10/27
Class 158/0 (3-car): 6/8
Class 158/9: 0/10
Class 170/4: 4/4

Total: 58/161

Are 104 and 106 in service yet?

I haven't seen anything to suggest they are.

 

[1D53]

104 isn't out yet but 106 entered traffic yesterday and is out today too.

 

[darylyates17]

How many 319s are in the full livery as of now, must be a few more since I last asked but I know some still have the basic white livery and pink insides from the old Serco/Abellio franchise.

 

[Loop & Link]

364/5/7-9/77 left in white now.

All others in Northern colours.

 

[darylyates17]

364/5/7-9/77 left in white now.

All others in Northern colours.

Thanks for that

 

[Spirit555]

Haven't seen a post about 150102 returning from Crewe in unbranded Northern Livery on Sunday 11/03/18

Apologies if it has.

 

[1179_Clee2]

104 isn't out yet but 106 entered traffic yesterday and is out today too.

Northern have received 12 150/1's from GWR
104 has not entered traffic yet and 102 just returned from Crewe.
Have all the others entered traffic???

 

[BurtonM]

Seemingly new seats just like the old ones, but with 2-tone blue covers.

I clocked one of those last week, think it's just a reupholster (this is Northern after all, I'm sort of suprised they bothered at all). The seats were absurdly dusty/dirty for new covers as well.

The PIS does have pre-programmed audio capabilities, I've heard it repeatedly playing a message about a call for aid being activated (PRM toilet?).

 

[dave87016]

With the exception of 102/104 the rest of the cascaded 150/1's have been in service

 

[Bovverboy]

Has the arrival of the ex-FGW 150s eliminated the short-forming of trains?

 

[notlob.divad]

Has the arrival of the ex-FGW 150s eliminated the short-forming of trains?

I rather hope it increases the rate at which they are sent away for PRM mods.

 

[northwichcat]

Has the arrival of the ex-FGW 150s eliminated the short-forming of trains?

No. See https://www.journeycheck.com/northernrail under Train Formation Updates. Although, not all the ones listed are not all short formations - there's a 4 car instead of 3 car listed for York-Leeds and there's a Southport-Airport which was showing as being short formed earlier but is now saying 'will now be formed of the usual number of coaches.'

 

[jonesy3001]

So whats coming up tomorrow then?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K55609/2018/03/17/advanced

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No. See https://www.journeycheck.com/northernrail under Train Formation Updates. Although, not all the ones listed are not all short formations - there's a 4 car instead of 3 car listed for York-Leeds and there's a Southport-Airport which was showing as being short formed earlier but is now saying 'will now be formed of the usual number of coaches.'

Plus with the varied length of coaches at Northern, the number of coaches is only one metric. For example if a 3-car 144 is replaced with a 155, that's 2 vice 3 but also 46m vice 45m!

 

[PHILIPE]

So whats coming up tomorrow then?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K55609/2018/03/17/advanced

I've already answered your same question in the 150/1 thread